What Hi*Fi? team & everyone else - delay & lip sync.....

[The_Lhc]

j4mm3r:the_lhc:j4mm3r:Badamz:

I just can't quite get my head around what the extra £9.75 a month is for, when there are so few hi-def channels and many are free.

I agree with you there Badamz, £9.75 a month for a handful of hd channels is too much esp when your paying a subscription anyway!

Huh, seems to have ditched my original reply, but there's 31 HD channels on Sky, 3 of which are available for free.

the only reason i got hd box was because of the hdmi aspect of connecting to my avr.

Hmmm, Stereo!

I was using these forums to help out people and to give & receive advice not going through conversations and making sarky quips as above!

And I'm advising you that there are 31 HD channels on Sky. The stereo comment was a light-hearted reminder that if you want DD5.1 from your Sky box you'll need more than the HDMI connection.

Jeez, talk about sensitive, if you thought that was unfriendly then there's really no way we can have a conversation, that's about as warm and fuzzy as I get!

 

[Anonymous]

Who hijacked my thread and turned it into a Sky HD content bashing/defending session? Actually that's fine.

The simple fact is (actually here are two simple facts). 1. j4mm3r is exactly the kind of person we need on these forums, so nobody say anything to bring his opinions into disrepute. 2. £9.75 a month is a total rip off for the Sky subscriber who does not want (or want to pay for) the movie channels or sports channels. Some of us are selective (and by that I mean snobby Ha Ha). I don't like the wall to wall mindless dross that has been pumping out of Hollywood for years, so I don't have movie channels. If I love a film (Pan's Labyrinth, Leon etc.) I will buy it to watch every year. The only sports I care about are F1 and cycling, so (forgetting for a moment that Sky are putting together a Tour de France Team) I don't watch Sky Sports. I don't watch football (the odd England game maybe). There is no point in my paying for more than the package I have (fairly basic).

The fact you can buy a Sky HD+ box is interesting though. j4mm3r brings useful information again. Lets share our knowledge, not comment on somebody elses opinions.

Thanks for the abreviation tip (though I don't intend to dwell on the subject - my back was hurting that was all - cheers).

 

[j4mm3r]

alright lol chillax, nice to meet u

 

[The_Lhc]

Badamz: Who hijacked my thread and turned it into a Sky HD content bashing/defending session? Actually that's fine.

The simple fact is (actually here are two simple facts). 1. j4mm3r is exactly the kind of person we need on these forums,

Cheers for the implication...

so nobody say anything to bring his opinions into disrepute.

Erm, unless he's wrong about something, obviously. Not saying he is sometimes, but we all make mistakes, from time to time.

2. £9.75 a month is a total rip off for the Sky subscriber who does not want (or want to pay for) the movie channels or sports channels.

Now that I would agree with, it would make more sense if it was a sliding scale, but I suspect would be difficult to administer (or so Sky would say).

Some of us are selective.

Again, thanks for the implication and the sweeping generalisation.

I don't like the wall to wall mindless dross that has been pumping out of Hollywood for years, so I don't have movie channels. If I love a film (Pan's Labyrinth, Leon etc.) I will buy it to watch every year.

Funnily enough I buy more films after seeing them on Sky than I ever did before.

The only sports I care about are F1 and cycling, so (forgetting for a moment that Sky are putting together a Tour de France Team) I don't watch Sky Sports.

Can you get Eurosport without a Sky sub?

I don't watch football (the odd England game maybe). There is no point in my paying for more than the package I have (fairly basic).

Fair enough, but don't try to make out you're somehow more superior to those of us who have chosen to go for the lot, you're coming across as a bit of a snob at the moment, which I'm sure isn't your intention.

The fact you can buy a Sky HD+ box is interesting though. j4mm3r brings useful information again. Lets share our knowledge, not comment on somebody elses opinions.

Actually I wasn't commenting on an opinion, I was commenting on an incorrect statement of apparent fact, namely that there are only a handful of HD channels on Sky, so I simply introduced a real fact, that there are actually 31 HD channels in total on Sky, which, in my OPINION (so you can't comment on it remember, your rules...), is rather more than a handful.

These fora already have house rules, it isn't your place to introduce more of them, if the mods have a problem with anything people are saying, they'll make it known.

 

[The_Lhc]

j4mm3r:alright lol chillax, nice to meet u

No worries. I was a bit short with my original reply but like I said the system munched my original attempt, so I was a little annoyed, which may have filtered though, sorry about that.

 

[Anonymous]

Respect due.

I will look into buying a Sky HD box, as you recommend. I did not know you could get them (other than from Sky, cost, setup and best part of £10 a month). Presumably you could take out any further channel subscription if you wanted anyway. I'm not slagging off the channels, but it is not coincidence that it used to be an extra £9.75 a month for Sky+ over a 'normal' Sky box (to cover the planner?!?), so I don't feel it really has anything to do with HD channels. We only got Sky+ when this went away - probably when they put this extra monthly charge onto HD subscribers.

Like I have already said: I have found these forums very useful indeed. I keep coming across points I have not considered and the fact others are encountering (or can debunk) them is of genuine value to me, so I say so. j4mm3r - you are more than helpful.

 

[The_Lhc]

Badamz: I will look into buying a Sky HD box, as you recommend. I did not know you could get them (other than from Sky, cost, setup and best part of £10 a month). Presumably you could take out any further channel subscription if you wanted anyway. I'm not slagging off the channels, but it is not coincidence that it used to be an extra £9.75 a month for Sky+ over a 'normal' Sky box (to cover the planner?!?), so I don't feel it really has anything to do with HD channels. We only got Sky+ when this went away - probably when they put this extra monthly charge onto HD subscribers.

Absolutely, I guess they could argue there's extra investment required for HD cameras and that but no, mostly you're spot on, it IS additional revenue generating. As I've said before though I'd be amazed if the HD charge wasn't dropped eventually, the same way the Sky+ charge was dropped.

Don't get me wrong, I don't LIKE paying the extra, but on balance, it's just about worth it, for me. Obviously if you're only paying 17 quid a month then another tenner is a BIG percentage increase but when you're already shelling out top whack for it you barely notice, it's just a slightly louder grumble everytime the direct debit goes out!

Like I have already said: I have found these forums very useful indeed.

And they are but that doesn't mean there's no room for chat, indeed I think you'll find it impossible to prevent it, it's t'interwebs after all...

 

[Anonymous]

Hi 'the_lhc'.

I was not expecting you to pick at my casual comments - I was typing a reply in a flowing way, sorry to sound superior. My choice of phrase about being selective is nothing to do with being snobbish, but it does sound sarcastic (reading it back now), but if you cannot empathise with my opinion that 90% of what is on TV (and Sky movies) is utter dross then you will always think me a snob, but I was not having a go at you and I am a little taken aback by your reply. I did not mean to suggest that if you do have Movies or Sport channels, you are not capable of being selective (it was a poor term I used). I made a very lighthearded comment about not wanting people to have at go at other's opinions - I did not want to suggest a rule (that Friday feeling). Please don't think I am having a go at anybody - I cetainly have no reason to. Everybody who contributes gets a thumbs-up from me. I did not realise that if I thanked somebody or said they were very helpful, I might be suggesting somebody else was not being so. I have just read through the whole thread again and I do not feel I was actually suggesting anybody was bringing anybody or their opinion into disrepute - it was meant as a joke! I came across a bit more seriously than I had intended (I forgot to preview it first). God I need a coffee.....

Perhaps I feel it is just a little safer to offer your own opinions, rather than systematically cut and paste somebody elses opinions and attempt to address them one at a time - that is a little 'in ones face', but I only meant to make a joke about your chosen style of contribution and I meant no offence or to belittle you. I am glad there is somebody with another very valid view (our views about Sky (in this thread) are totally dependant on the subscription packages we are willing to pay for, so we can recognise how much that colours our view. It does not invalidate it).

I don't have Europsort (David Duffield was the reason to watch the cycling on there), but they have Cycling on ITV4 - live on the red button during the Tour de France.

Sorry, I only wanted everyone who looks at this thread to know how valuable I have found j4mm3r replies to be. From the start of this thread he has had answers I have very much needed (and this is not a thread about SKY after all - though I'm happy it has 'evolved')

Have a good weekend EVERYBODY.

 

[j4mm3r]

I was only trying to help out!

if we share our experiences we can do one another favours as all this tech is mind boggling sometimes.

I simply replaced my sky + box for a hd one, the two feeds are already there for the sky plus functionality, my sky card couldnt display some channels so a quick call and they sorted it straight away.

thanks for your info in the past badamz, together we can make this a better place lol

 

[Anonymous]

I hope anybody who reads my threads (or other's I have added to) will see that I am not a miserable so and so who wants to go around upsetting anybody who has a view that does not exactly match my own. I am probably a snob though. It was spotted - I have been rumbled. I must just go and humiliate the staff.

I only recently joined WHF Forums as I struggled with my choice of new TV. It was such a positive move and helped no end (as more issues I had not considered appear).

 

[The_Lhc]

Badamz: Hi 'the_lhc'.

Hello! <waves>

I was not expecting you to pick at my casual comments - I was typing a reply in a flowing way, sorry to sound superior. My choice of phrase about being selective is nothing to do with being snobbish, but it does sound sarcastic (reading it back now), but if you cannot empathise with my opinion that 90% of what is on TV (and Sky movies) is utter dross then you will always think me a snob,

Now, you see I wouldn't disagree with that, 90% of what's on TV is dross, it's just I find that that most of the non-dross is on channels that I have to pay for, my missus could happily just watch BBC1 (Eastenders), ITV (Corrie) and Channel 4 (How clean is your house, location, location, location, and other rot) and not fell she was missing anything. I'd go ****ing nuts. I can't stand channels like "Living TV" and rubbish like that either, "Four Weddings"? Four Koff... It's drivel, as you say, however there ARE good movies around and for a Sports fan I can't go wrong, where else am I going to watch Artistic Billiards (yes you heard me...)? Eurosport HD as it happens!

but I was not having a go at you and I am a little taken aback by your reply. I did not mean to suggest that if you do have Movies or Sport channels, you are not capable of being selective (it was a poor term I used). I made a very lighthearded comment about not wanting people to have at go at other's opinions - I did not want to suggest a rule (that Friday feeling). Please don't think I am having a go at anybody - I cetainly have no reason to. Everybody who contributes gets a thumbs-up from me. I did not realise that if I thanked somebody or said they were very helpful, I might be suggesting somebody else was not being so. I have just read through the whole thread again and I do not feel I was actually suggesting anybody was bringing anybody or their opinion into disrepute - it was meant as a joke! I came across a bit more seriously than I had intended (I forgot to preview it first). God I need a coffee.....

Don't worry, I know that feeling very well, almost everything I say gets interpreted wrongly it seems, not just here but on pretty much every forum I visit. Usually most of what I say is light-hearted but I have an aversion to smilies :-( and without them people seem to take everything I say seriously, when a lot of the time it's supposed to be humourous. Granted I wasn't being particularly funny in this instance, but I wasn't having a go (initially), I was just pointing out what I perceived to be a factual error, with no judgment made on the original poster.

Perhaps I feel it is just a little safer to offer your own opinions, rather than systematically cut and paste somebody elses opinions and attempt to address them one at a time - that is a little 'in ones face',

Ah, I see, apologies if it came across like that, I've always done that though, ever since my early newsgroup days (1993 I think I started out on NNTP), especially if someone posts a lengthy comment with multiple points. By breaking things up and adding my replies after each point I just find it easier to follow the train of thought.

but I only meant to make a joke about your chosen style of contribution and I meant no offence or to belittle you. I am glad there is somebody with another very valid view (our views about Sky (in this thread) are totally dependant on the subscription packages we are willing to pay for, so we can recognise how much that colours our view. It does not invalidate it).

Ok, no problem.

I don't have Europsort (David Duffield was the reason to watch the cycling on there), but they have Cycling on ITV4 - live on the red button during the Tour de France.

Is it? I didn't even realise C4 had a red button! Learn something new...

Sorry, I only wanted everyone who looks at this thread to know how valuable I have found j4mm3r replies to be. From the start of this thread he has had answers I have very much needed (and this is not a thread about SKY after all - though I'm happy it has 'evolved')

Fair enough, can't argue with that.

Have a good weekend EVERYBODY.

Aye, and yourself, ta ta.

 

[TKratz]

Well, to return to the topic (hope you don't mind) I discovered something funny tonight. Or at least so I think.

I wasn't even trying to fix this problem, but I did two things, and one of them seemed to work (unfortunately I do not know which one of them...)

Lately my Yamaha DSP Z7 have sounded rather strange. The sound was flat, without scale and like my speakers was put in a box. I couldn't figure what was wrong, but it might have been my son playing around with it. I decided the easiest thing to do was to reset the system. After doing so I figured I might as well run an update of the firmware.

It worked. The sound is now much better and like I remember it from when I bought it. But more interesting this process also fixed the lip-sync problem!

 

[Anonymous]

We are back on topic and all friends - that's how we want it. We have been guilty of taking each others remarks too much to heart, but maybe we know each other a little better now. I am sarcastic & flippant, but I usually manage to wind my neck in. Thanks for coming back 'the_lhc' with your style intact!

The firmware point is an interesting one (technology is getting like PC games where they need 'patches' to work). What would have happened if the blessed internet had never taken off? Thanks 'TKratz', another very interesting point to consider.

 

[Anonymous]

This is one for j4mm3r (as it continues his upscaling Sky points, but we are not penpals or anything!). All contributions welcome.

I see your amp (AVR-2310) upscales not only analogue to HDMI, but also HDMI to HDMI, but the amps in the price range I had thought sufficient (the AVR-1910 and the DA2400ES) only (I now realise) upscale analogue to HDMI. Does the Sky HD box have a component output I can upscale? My Sky+ has nowt of use (as you know), but now it seems the HDMI will not be any use to me unless I have the funds to match your nice amp (or pop round when you are out with my swag bag). Any comments?

More I did not know (the more you find out, the more questions you then have).

 

[The_Lhc]

Why don't you think the HDMI on your Sky HD will be any good? The Sky box will upscale SD itself if set to 720p or 1080i, however it's not very good at it. Alternatively if you leave it on auto the TV will upscale the SD pictures instead, I saw a MASSIVE improvement in SD picture quality when I allowed my Pioneer to do the upscaling instead.

You DON'T need an amp to do this for you.

 

[j4mm3r]

the_lhc, interesting point about tv upscaling, does the tv do this automatically or do you need to tell it to, i cant seem to find anything on my tv about upscaling a source anywhere? it could be upscaling for all i know or not!

Badamz, my penpal chum! i will check my sky hd box tomorrow when im sober! but a quick image scan on google suggests the sky hd box doesnt have component outputs. I think you are asking if you can upscale hdmi to hdmi also, the what hifi review of the denon 1910 on this site says it can upscale hdmi to hdmi! is this what you need?

 

[j4mm3r]

.....regarding the sky hd upscaling the sky hd box isnt great and as you are probably aware the review of our tv

says the upscaling is rather soft and suggest you use an external source.

i dont know where to find on the 9664 about upscaling? anyone?....

 

[daveh75]

The older 1st generation(Thomson and Pace)Sky HD boxes have component out's. The newer second generation (Pace,Amstrad and Samsung) do not have component outputs...

 

[The_Lhc]

j4mm3r: the_lhc, interesting point about tv upscaling, does the tv do this automatically or do you need to tell it to, i cant seem to find anything on my tv about upscaling a source anywhere? it could be upscaling for all i know or not!

It's automatic, must admit it caught me out for a while, until I got fed up with the soft muddy images on the SD channels, set the SkyHD box to auto and sat back in amazement at just how much better the picture was.

Badamz, my penpal chum! i will check my sky hd box tomorrow when im sober! but a quick image scan on google suggests the sky hd box doesnt have component outputs.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Oldboy]

Badamz,

Going to contact Sony today, will report back on this thread with the results asap. I'm now sure it's something to do with the PS3 (seperate bluray now high on shopping list!) as i got my old Samsung dvd player out last night to experiment and had no issues with that. I'm now sure it's occured because i'm using the PS3 for dvd, bluray and gaming. I tend to turn on the 'Gaming' mode on my TV when playing games and then turn it off for all other sources (makes a BIG difference to Rock Band as i can't even set the insruments lag settings without game mode on!). I'm now 99.9% sure that if i replaced the PS3 with a seperate bluray player that dealt with the dvd and bluray playback that the problem would be solved as the PS3 would then only need 1 setting for games....but i am wondering wether the bluray player may throw a spanner in the works and i suffer the same problem again just with dvd and bluray playback, and i'm not prepared to spend 2-300 quid to find out! lol. Besides that i don't have any rack space left!!

Btw as i'm 35 and my body is already saying NO (broken knee, serious neck problems and taking more medication than meals lol!) can i assume that it only gets worse as you get even older? Oh the joy, i'm really looking forward to my 40th now....! lol.

Sounds like you have made your mind up over the amp then? Just go and get it after all the difference between the 2 will be very slight indeed and if that optical is impotant then you have to go for the Sony no? I very nearly bought that amp myself a while back as got close to replacing my amp with something more muscular (may still do this) so know how good it is plus it had a glowing review form the whfi team....and that's the most important thing right?

P.S. After reading through the rest of the thread it's nice to see we are all friends on here most of the time!

 

[j4mm3r]

ive just looked at back of hd box and no it dosnt have component outputs, has audio L&R and s-video.

just looked at my sky settings and it is set to auto, although my amp is set to 1080i for hdmi, so im guessing my amp is doing the upscaling not my tv? it looks really good on sd at the mo.

 

[Anonymous]

Gosh - I don't look at this thread for a few hours and I'm bombarded with facts & questions.I may have to learn a thing or two from the_lhc as his cut and paste technique may well be the only way I'm going to get through this reply without forgetting somebody. I stood in judgement over his methods so recently though (exposed for hypocrisy I've been).

Firstly (as j4mm3r has stated) the Philips 9664 has a fairly soft scaler though it looks fine with a very good transmission. Many transmissions are not fine though and they look soft. Normal def TV is not my long term priority, so the TV's other positives were more important to me. I would like to be able to upscale Sky before it gets to the TV therefore. I have become aware (as many are pointing out) that Sky HD boxes no longer have a set of component outs - pah. The older ones did as daveh75 with his unusual looks points out (I am calling the kettle black).

Oldboy - yes it gets worse! Keep as active as you can is my suggestion as I became rather immobilised when my back went and lost a lot of stamina and flexibility. So hard to get it back and I put on much lard. I had made up my mind about the Sony amp (with that extra optical input and cheaper price tag), but the non upscaling of HDMI has thrown me in to total disarray. I hope my last question to you regarding your PS3 problems has at least put you on a route to relief (I may be overstating my part in that). We ARE all friends on here, but we occasionally misunderstand and bang the keys before we get our brains in gear (I mean me by the way).

Back to j4mm3r - wise sage and nice amp owner. From reading the Denon website, the 1901 does not upscale HDMI to HDMI, only analogue to HDMI. The spec for the 2310 shows it does the lot and from some surfing yesterday (when I should have been sanding) I see that amps below the price point of your Denon (from any manufacturer) don't scale HDMI-HDMI. You seem to have managed to get your amp at a good price as the best I've found is £759, but that is £359 more than I was about to spend and it is not really justified by the speakers I have either. I would have to go without something else to get the 2310 and it's probably my other half (of 17 years!).

Your plasma (I presume) upscales normal def more kindly the_lhc, so this probably sounds like a pointless discussion to you. I have found most of the standard def I watch is OK, but it would be nice to be able to experiment with upscaling outside the TV without buying a very pricey amp.

It's interesting as a topic too.....

 

[The_Lhc]

j4mm3r: just looked at my sky settings and it is set to auto, although my amp is set to 1080i for hdmi, so im guessing my amp is doing the upscaling not my tv?

Yes, certainly sounds like it.

 

[The_Lhc]

Badamz:Gosh - I don't look at this thread for a few hours and I'm bombarded with facts & questions.I may have to learn a thing or two from the_lhc as his cut and paste technique

Cut and paste? Pish and tosh dear chap! Try clicking the "quote" link, rather than "reply" when you want to include someone else's comments. Doing it my way will require you to add additional "quote"s and "/quote"s (with [ ] round both the bit's in "". I can't actually type that as it treats it as a quote block!) everytime you interrupt a quote with your own comments. It's not difficult though.

Your plasma (I presume) upscales normal def more kindly the_lhc,

I believe it's supposed to be quite good, but to be honest I've not compared it to anything else, other than the Sky box itself.

so this probably sounds like a pointless discussion to you. I have found most of the standard def I watch is OK, but it would be nice to be able to experiment with upscaling outside the TV without buying a very pricey amp.

Not at all, I'll be trying it out once I've upgraded my amp, it's all useful info.

 

[j4mm3r]

I'm getting lonely i need to speak to someone, i know... Badamz!

Badamz, not sure im understanding you correctly but the denon avr-1910 definatley upscales hdmi-hdmi (unless ive made error). Ive checked the user manual and its def there, same settings procedure as mine, and ive re-read the what hifi review online and the magazine and whf state...

'And, while analogue video upconversion and upscaling are features found in the majority of amps available, the Denon also features HDMI-to-HDMI upscaling.'

have i misunderstood? perhaps Andrew or Clare could clarify?......