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What do you look for when buying speakers

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
I don't think that last video is the system playing.
could be but I have a doubt on that one
 
Blacksabbath25 said:
I will show you 2 videos here’s one of the NS1000 videos https://youtu.be/7yLUzGbD0B8. And tell me would you think *smile*

and the other on playing black sabbath https://youtu.be/LlvVGNu0EXM
Sorry, but the first one reminded me of Infernal Affairs :D

https://youtu.be/iwEdvXKFRJQ

Agree with Ellis - the second one doesn’t sound like its playing through the speakers.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
davidf said:
Are people really using YouTube videos to assess sound quality?
And to test the audio quality of different power supply upgrades to digital transport.

Common sense people need to fight this new trend.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
166
50
18,670
Andrewjvt said:
davidf said:
Are people really using YouTube videos to assess sound quality?
And to test the audio quality of different power supply upgrades to digital transport.

Common sense people need to fight this new trend.
I am equally bewildered by this development! Whatever happened to “it’s only as strong as the weakest link”? Maybe nobody studies Science any more...
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
insider9 said:
Andrewjvt said:
davidf said:
Are people really using YouTube videos to assess sound quality?
And to test the audio quality of different power supply upgrades to digital transport.

Common sense people need to fight this new trend.
Why? Is it hurting anybody? Live and let live I say.
When it's influences people to waste money on a pointless something then yes it needs to be questioned/challenged. Especially since the testing procedures are highly biassed.
Many people believe what they hear
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
739
298
5,270
Andrewjvt said:
insider9 said:
Andrewjvt said:
davidf said:
Are people really using YouTube videos to assess sound quality?
And to test the audio quality of different power supply upgrades to digital transport.

Common sense people need to fight this new trend.
Why? Is it hurting anybody? Live and let live I say.
When it's influences people to waste money on a pointless something then yes it needs to be questioned/challenged. Especially since the testing procedures are highly biassed.
Many people believe what they hear
If that's what you meant I'm with you. Debate is always good and if you don't challenge things you move backwards. You've used the word "fight" in your earlier comment hence my reply.

As to objectivity... I'm not sure such thing exists. We're all biased in one way or other. You can only hope that a person presenting their opinion is doing so I a balanced way and states clearly when they talk preferences. That's as close as we can hope to get.

My opinion is that a lot of is down to poor use of language other than trying to mislead people. Many will use phrases "It's great" when what they actually mean is "I like it a lot". And often will not criticise the things they own or like as why would they... "They're great" :)
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
163
9
4,595
If videos could be so persuasive. Judging by the porn on the net, We would have an entire generation of youngsters wanting to be pizza delivery boys when they grew up.

All videos are just a tease. Some enjoy filming, some watching and some acting. No harm unless we start taking it as a gospel. Come on who lasts 30 minutes in bed :)
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
739
298
5,270
CnoEvil said:
insider9 said:
If that's what you meant I'm with you. Debate is always good and if you don't challenge things you move backwards. You've used the word "fight" in your earlier comment hence my reply.

As to objectivity... I'm not sure such thing exists. We're all biased in one way or other. You can only hope that a person presenting their opinion is doing so I a balanced way and states clearly when they talk preferences. That's as close as we can hope to get.

My opinion is that a lot of is down to poor use of language other than trying to mislead people. Many will use phrases "It's great" when what they actually mean is "I like it a lot". And often will not criticise the things they own or like as why would they... "They're great" :)
I think this is very perceptive... And I think it's not only use of language, but posting style - where some people come across as rather hostile and aggressive, even if that's not their intention.

I agree with a lot of viewpoints.

- I think David is right when he says you can learn little about a system by listening to it on YouTube.
- I also think that if YouTube is used as a visual means of expressing thoughts and opinions (as opposed to writing them down on here), there is nothing wrong with with that. The game changes when you are selling what you are reviewing, or getting paid handsomely by the companies that you are promoting.
- If differences are heard on the recording, the chances are that they will be greater in reality. This certainly shouldn't be used as the demo, but a trigger to investigate the product for oneself (if interested).
- IMO. The advice to be sceptical about what you hear, is reasonable advice - but that can easily become, "Only believe what you hear, if I tell you it's OK".
- I think Ellisdj would always welcome helpful, constructive criticism, but I believe that it should never become personal.

It is not my intention to point the finger at anyone....but am making a general observation.
In general I agree with you, Cno. And vast majority of YouTube content is not great for assessing anything to do with sound quality. Any purchasing decisions based on that are as risky as reading reviews. Particularly if you're trying to decide between two components.

However, I think Ellisdj's videos are the exception to that rule. If in a controlled environment you make individual changes and record the outcomes the results can be quite interesting. I still would only treat it as a prompt to demo but it's a very useful resource. I particularly like the thought behind it and the unique nature, also respect the enormous amount of effort that goes with it. That's clearly reflected in quality we're getting.

Sabbath, apologies for this debate in your thread. I hope you don't mind.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
insider9 said:
If that's what you meant I'm with you. Debate is always good and if you don't challenge things you move backwards. You've used the word "fight" in your earlier comment hence my reply.

As to objectivity... I'm not sure such thing exists. We're all biased in one way or other. You can only hope that a person presenting their opinion is doing so I a balanced way and states clearly when they talk preferences. That's as close as we can hope to get.

My opinion is that a lot of is down to poor use of language other than trying to mislead people. Many will use phrases "It's great" when what they actually mean is "I like it a lot". And often will not criticise the things they own or like as why would they... "They're great" :)
I think this is very perceptive... And I think it's not only use of language, but posting style - where some people come across as rather hostile and aggressive, even if that's not their intention.

I agree with a lot of viewpoints.

- I think David is right when he says you can learn little about a system by listening to it on YouTube.
- I also think that if YouTube is used as a visual means of expressing thoughts and opinions (as an alternative to writing them down on here), there is nothing wrong with with that. The game changes when you are selling what you are reviewing, or getting paid handsomely by the companies that you are promoting.
- If differences are heard on the recording, the chances are that they will be greater in reality. This certainly shouldn't be used as the demo, but a trigger to investigate the product for oneself (if interested).
- IMO. The advice to be sceptical about what you hear, is reasonable advice - but that can easily become, "Only believe what you hear, if I tell you it's OK".
- I think Ellisdj would always welcome helpful, constructive criticism, but I believe that it should never become personal.

It is not my intention to point the finger at anyone....but am making a general observation.
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
Andrewjvt said:
davidf said:
Are people really using YouTube videos to assess sound quality?
And to test the audio quality of different power supply upgrades to digital transport.

Common sense people need to fight this new trend.
Not quality just the fact there is a difference that was easily recorded and heard via even you tube :)
 

Gray

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2015
891
515
5,770
insider9 said:
My opinion is that a lot of is down to poor use of language other than trying to mislead people. Many will use phrases "It's great" when what they actually mean is "I like it a lot". And often will not criticise the things they own or like as why would they... "They're great" :)
People believe cartoon Tony, he's very convincing. But next time you see a tiger eating a steak, swap it for a bowl of Frosties and see what happens.
 
ellisdj said:
Andrewjvt said:
davidf said:
Are people really using YouTube videos to assess sound quality?
And to test the audio quality of different power supply upgrades to digital transport.

Common sense people need to fight this new trend.
Not quality just the fact there is a difference that was easily recorded and heard via even you tube :)
But all they're listening to, really, is how clear the recording of the system is (reliant on the recording equipment), and if comparing two different systems, they're only really comparing tonal balance. This is ok to a point as quite a few people only listen to tonal balance when they audition kit for themselves, but there's so much more going on - how can you compare soundstage width? Depth? Projection? Authority and control of lower notes? And any speakers that excite the room's first reflection points less are going to come across as smoother on a video as you won't have that spatial information.
 

Romulus

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2014
60
27
10,570
davidf said:
ellisdj said:
Andrewjvt said:
davidf said:
Are people really using YouTube videos to assess sound quality?
And to test the audio quality of different power supply upgrades to digital transport.

Common sense people need to fight this new trend.
Not quality just the fact there is a difference that was easily recorded and heard via even you tube :)
But all they're listening to, really, is how clear the recording of the system is (reliant on the recording equipment), and if comparing two different systems, they're only really comparing tonal balance. This is ok to a point as quite a few people only listen to tonal balance when they audition kit for themselves, but there's so much more going on - how can you compare soundstage width? Depth? Projection? Authority and control of lower notes? And any speakers that excite the room's first reflection points less are going to come across as smoother on a video as you won't have that spatial information.
Totally agree with the last above post. Also what I find frequently frustrating in live demos that the person doing the demo has limited type of music so I am often left frustrated as to soundstage, width, depth, projection authority and control over lower notes. For example in one demonstration the person only had some band orientated music mainly blues. The speakers in question came over very well indeed, but with the recordings he had I would suspect most speakers will come over very well. Its a bit like Dire Strait albums, the way the albums are recorded, even the live gigs its very hard for Hi Fi system not to come over with an engaging sound. However I find other genre of music like Classical music which will often show imaging, depth, the tone, timbre, it will make the speaker go on a marathon run rather just a short sprint, real work out to see how it would cope with all kinds. I suppose I should bring my own cds to such demos..!
 
Romulus said:
Totally agree with the last above post. Also what I find frequently frustrating in live demos that the person doing the demo has limited type of music so I am often left frustrated as to soundstage, width, depth, projection authority and control over lower notes. For example in one demonstration the person only had some band orientated music mainly blues. The speakers in question came over very well indeed, but with the recordings he had I would suspect most speakers will come over very well. Its a bit like Dire Strait albums, the way the albums are recorded, even the live gigs its very hard for Hi Fi system not to come over with an engaging sound. However I find other genre of music like Classical music which will often show imaging, depth, the tone, timbre, it will make the speaker go on a marathon run rather just a short sprint, real work out to see how it would cope with all kinds. I suppose I should bring my own cds to such demos..!
Problem is, they’re probably catering to the masses. How many in the audience would be familiar with classical music? Chances are, whichever genre of music they choose, only a certain number of the room will be familiar with it and be able to appreciate what the system is doing. So what do you do instead? Choose something safe. Something that’s clean and dynamic. It doesn’t actually matter that the soundstage lacks width or depth, as the majority of the room will be wowed by how clear it sounds. You can only genuinely assess a system’s characteristics with music you know very well, on a system you know very well, in a room you know very well. Anything outside of tha is guesswork.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
ellisdj said:
Andrewjvt said:
davidf said:
Are people really using YouTube videos to assess sound quality?
And to test the audio quality of different power supply upgrades to digital transport.

Common sense people need to fight this new trend.
Not quality just the fact there is a difference that was easily recorded and heard via even you tube :)
When you have sighted cue saying with isolation
Without isolation

Then people believe they hear a difference when there is not one.

Just don't look at the screen and then the difference you heard sighted suddenly vanishes.
Your demos have an agenda to prove yourself correct but they are not fair ab tests.
I've emailed you about how you could do it fair but I've not received a reply so I take it you aren't interested in a fair comparison.
Fair enough but I smell snake typical oil salesman.

sighted tests with you first explaing or influencing what they will hear is not proof but only clever influencing tactics like a clever salesman.
 

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