Want to pull WHF up on their review of the Sony VW520 PJ

[Benedict_Arnold]

Well, I'm not turning my media room into "the black hole of Calcutta", that's for sure.

So I'm more interested in how home PJs work in reasonably darkened homes.

What some cinema in London does is about irrelevant as what Lewis Hamilton does to his Mercedes F1 car as I do to my 2008 AMG.

Same goes for hi-fi really. For sure if you're doing a comparative test you need to use the same, neutral environment, but to suggest we should all deck out our living rooms in sound deadening anti-reflective foam cones is ridiculous.

My media room has no windows, neutral decor and a fairly light proof door I could but something round, but thats about it as far as darkening it goes.

BTW the eggbox thing is what they used to do in the 40s and 50s (and 60s) when money was tight according to my late BBC SOUND ENGINEER grandfather.

Oh, and I'd be interested to see what the reflectivity of different wall treatments is. I'm not sure that surfaces need to be black, completely black, to cut down light reflection to reasonable levels.

 

[ellisdj]

It's a shame you are not UK based I could change your whole perception in one day with a visit to a certain place.

It would open your eyes same as it did mine then there is no going back. I was the same as you I didn't get why all these people were bat caving their rooms.
Took me about 2 minutes to realise why and how wrong I had been all this time

So much so I completely redecorated my listening room after only renovating it 11 months earlier and changed loads of my setup to try and mimic what I saw.

You have bright room screen options such screen innovations black Diamond which boosts contrast in the blacks but will have a low gain so will need a bright pj.
But this is not acoustically transparent so speakers behind I'd out and that is a great way to go for sound.

It's not just about that it's about immersion. If you can only see the screen including your peripheral vision it makes for a much more immersive watch

EDIT - the cinema you couldn't care less about is running the best pj tech in the world. If they are blackening the room it's for a very valid reason so to discard this is a bit silly

 

[Series1boy]

Well, I'm not turning my media room into "the black hole of Calcutta", that's for sure.

i think you ought change your language, this is not acceptable!!

 

[bigboss]

There's no point in squabbling over this. One important aspect of any cinema room design is WAF, as most cannot afford a dedicated cinema room. It all depends on what your priorities are.

My OH insists on 1 spotlight above her to remain on when watching a film on projector if she's having a dessert or popcorn! *unknw*

 

[ellisdj]

I wasn't intentionally bickering just trying to explain.

People can have wherever they want but it doesn't change the facts I this situation.

You might not believe me until you saw it for yourself I probably wouldn't either but it's how it is

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

i think you ought change your language, this is not acceptable!!

Huh? Quite a regular phrase where / when I grew up. Apologies if for some reason it caused offence.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

There's no point in squabbling over this. One important aspect of any cinema room design is WAF, as most cannot afford a dedicated cinema room. It all depends on what your priorities are.

My OH insists on 1 spotlight above her to remain on when watching a film on projector if she's having a dessert or popcorn! *unknw*

Agreed.

Even IF I did want to turn my media room into [insert politically acceptable phrase for a very dark place here], 'er indoors wouldn't let me. I'm a regular subscriber on AVSforum.com, which is the US based forum for all things AV. A lot of people spend an awful lot of money building out their media rooms, the size of tennis courts, with blacked out walls, ceilings, those little laser or LED lights to mimick the stars, curtains that slide back and forth at the push of a button, robot popcorn dispensers, bass traps (I thought they were for catching fish), you name it. Most people, however, don't have the sort of time or money needed for this. Most, like mine, are basically just extra bedrooms built without any windows.

I can make mine "dark enough" (IMHO) for a 4K PJ to work, with geryish walls and the "popcorn" textured finish on the walls and ceiling to disperse any reflected light. As I said, I can put a curtain or something over the door if I really need to to stop light creeping in around the edges of the door, but that's about all I'll be allowed to do anyway.

Look up www.thelandofcolor.com/lrv-light-reflectance-value-of-colors

They reckon the blackest black still reflects about 5% of the light shining on it (it must reflect some light or we wouldn't be able to see it at all) and the whitest white about 85%. Our walls are painted at about the 50% point and I'm sure the "popcorn" texture used here helps disperse reflections as well.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

To Ellis:

Over here Elite Screens is a pretty popular brand of mid-priced DIY screens,

My screen of choice is their ER138WH1W-A1080P3, which they tell me is their best model for 4K and accoustic transparency. 138-inch 21:9 (or 2.35:1 if you prefer) with a 2-inch black velvet frame, gain 1.0. Cost is about US$1000, home assembled. At 132 inches ( 11'0") wide x 59 inches (4'11") high overall, it's about the biggest I can fit on my 12'6" wide wall.

You can look it up on Amazon.com (not.co.uk).

Thoughts?

 

[ellisdj]

That looks like a very similar screen to mine in spec, interesting

I have got a seymour av screen uf material . They are also an American company I imported it.
My screen is 1.0 gain but when tested was actually 0.8 gain. You need to factor that in.

I really wanted a Seymour AV XD screen but I sit too close but I would emplore you to look them up and maybe order a sample of the material from them. It's free. The XD is true 1.0 gain and special material. Awesome image

However both materials will have the same light problem as I get. You will see when you do it what I have been on about

I started game thrones season 5 last night I need to do more work on darkening my room but I am on the limit of what the WAF will let me do also. It needs it though.

 

[bigboss]

I've got Draper ReAct 2.1 screen which works brilliantly in ambient light (it's not acoustically transparent).

 

[ellisdj]

How much contrast boost does that screen give?

Do they give it a rating?

 

[bigboss]

The specs for 2.1 have disappeared from the website. Here are the specs for Draper ReAct 3.0.

 

[ellisdj]

Cheers

I love the SI Black Diamond purely on the advertising and the website.

You can have 85% light rejection and a gain of 0.8 - i dont know if that is measured.

So you would need a light cannon or closer throw distance but it should be a pukka screen if not very pricey and not AT.

Best you can get is a gray in AT - hence the need for Complete Blackness - I have just been out and bought some black curtains - every little bit helps as they say

 

[bigboss]

Acoustically transparent screens suitable for ambient light are very expensive (minimum £8000 when I checked). That's why I designed my cinema room to accommodate speakers on either side and at the bottom.

 

[ellisdj]

I didnt know they even existed - do you have a link?

 

[bigboss]

I can't remember the name now. I saw the screen material at Ideal AV. Speak to Allan.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Guys

I get the idea that an AT screen is a compromise due to the little holes in the fabric that let the sound through. If I go non-AT I have to mount the speakers on the wall rather than in the wall, which will limit my screen width to about 10 feet or a 130 inch diagonal at 2.35:1, probably a 120 incher diagonal when all is said and done. Not too shabby none the less. And it gives me an excuse to buy some nice KEF T301s and T301Cs (one above the screen, one below to "centre" the centre channel mid-screen) and a nice Emotiva XPA-3 to drive them ;-)

White or grey (or gray even) I don't understand. Gut reaction says white, but grey gives better contrast? Is that the idea?

Assume my room isn't blacked out like a coal mine, and lined with that stuff the Aliens made the Obelisk in 2001 AD. What kind of gain should I be looking for to use a 4K projector for the best picture, AT or not, and what colour (or color as my wife would say)?

 

[bigboss]

AT vs non-AT is your choice, but remember that AT screens are usually more expensive. Also, if 4K, you'll need specific AT screens so the holes aren't visible.

If you can achieve a bat cave, white screens are the best. They don't work well if you have ambient light filtering in. Grey screens boost contrast but lose gain. It's usually 0.8 or thereabouts, which can make a picture appear dull. To overcome this, some manufacturers use techniques to boost the gain. Draper ReAct 3.0 for example, has a gain of 1.0. They're silver grey screens. I have not noticed any dullness in the picture. Even with curtains open and lights on, the picture is eminently watchable. Son_of_SJ has seen the screen in my house.

If your projector is bright, it can overcome the loss of gain, at the cost of lamp life.

 

[rocketrazor]

Acoustically transparent screens suitable for ambient light are very expensive (minimum £8000 when I checked). That's why I designed my cinema room to accommodate speakers on either side and at the bottom.

wow, didn't think they would be that much!

 

[bigboss]

AT screens can be cheap, ambient light screens can be cheap, but screens with AT as well as ambient light are expensive.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Oif course, if I go to a Home Theater (sic) boutique I can expect to pay at least double the on-line prices, even here.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Screens seem to be a LOT cheaper here. Whether it's the 20% VAT, the bigger market or just good old "rip off Britain" I don't know.

Chances are that by the time I have the cash to buy the projector (US$15K or GBP10K here at the moment) and screen price won't be an issue and maybe someone will come out with a new wonder high contrast high gain AT 4K material. I just want to get the best possible picture without turning the media room completely black - painting the projector wall back I might get away with, the rest of the walls, the ceiling, the carpets, the cat... no chance

 

[Son_of_SJ]

To overcome this, some manufacturers use techniques to boost the gain. Draper ReAct 3.0 for example, has a gain of 1.0. They're silver grey screens. I have not noticed any dullness in the picture. Even with curtains open and lights on, the picture is eminently watchable. Son_of_SJ has seen the screen in my house.

Indeed, the ambient light picture is more than watchable chez bigboss!

 

[ellisdj]

For the ultimate pq completely black is the way to go that's with any screen

If your looking to keep the room light you need to buy a screen to account for this otherwise be prepared for a proper washed out image and you might as well buy a cheap pj

You can see this clearly on the screen innovations website.

In terms of screen gain this depends on screen size and pj.

Best thing to do is get out and look at the options as everyone wants something different and different screen materials give the image a slightly different look

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

They sell Screen Innovations screens at BestBuy.

Right next to the toasters, microwaves and vacuum cleaners....

Not saying that means they're no good, but would you buy your screen at Currys?