Want to pull WHF up on their review of the Sony VW520 PJ

[ellisdj]

WHF I have to pull you up on the review of the VW520 projector.

I have no issue with the review or the score awarded but I have an issue with your consistency

You are not the first publication to review the pj, there are far more in depth reviews online already and there is obviously comparison the VW500 previous model.

The 520 benefits from twice the contrast ratio hdr so new hdmi chipset / maybe board and an improved bulb. But the rest seems pretty much the same and the criticism of the pj seems it's not as big an improvement on the VW500 as hoped for and not really worth upgrading to.

However I can see that the 520 holds a unique place in the market as the only genuine 4k pj with hdr and stonking performance with a contrast ratio I dare say near the VW1000 for half the price. To me that warrants 5 stars.

However as a publication that prides itself on consistency why did the VW500 only get 4 stars?
At the time there were no projectors with hdr so as much as you award a point for having a feature you can't deduct a point when a feature is not included that barely existed in the market as a whole.

You say in the review the contrast of the VW500 is more than good enough. You mention black level so I accept that could Mark the pj down a point but the VW300 which has worse contrast ratio again and is not as good as the VW500 by a margin gets awarded 5 stars there is no consistency.

This is not sour grapes I don't care it's 4 stars because I own it. I knew that before I bought it. Everyone needs criticism at times and this is it.

Also to suggest in the 520 review for people to use the motion flow option smooth high is crazy. That adds frames to create a completely un natural presentation nothing like the cinema - well it does on the 500 and I can't imagine it being and different.

To surmise I don't see how one is 4 star and the other 5 both were unique in the market at their price points providing fantastic performance and neither are cheap. Ones short comings must also be the other unless you discovered reality creation benefit only in testing the 520. Tut tut

I also think the pj facilities could do with a boost to a much larger screen and a completely blacked out room. If you want fair testing conditions for all pj's that is what is required guys n gals for proper fair black level performance and assessment

All the best

 

[nugget2014]

WHF I have to pull you up on the review of the VW520 projector.

I have no issue with the review or the score awarded but I have an issue with your consistency

You are not the first publication to review the pj, there are far more in depth reviews online already and there is obviously comparison the VW500 previous model.

The 520 benefits from twice the contrast ratio hdr so new hdmi chipset / maybe board and an improved bulb. But the rest seems pretty much the same and the criticism of the pj seems it's not as big an improvement on the VW500 as hoped for and not really worth upgrading to.

However I can see that the 520 holds a unique place in the market as the only genuine 4k pj with hdr and stonking performance with a contrast ratio I dare say near the VW1000 for half the price. To me that warrants 5 stars.

However as a publication that prides itself on consistency why did the VW500 only get 4 stars? At the time there were no projectors with hdr so as much as you award a point for having a feature you can't deduct a point when a feature is not included that barely existed in the market as a whole.

You say in the review the contrast of the VW500 is more than good enough. You mention black level so I accept that could Mark the pj down a point but the VW300 which has worse contrast ratio again and is not as good as the VW500 by a margin gets awarded 5 stars there is no consistency.

This is not sour grapes I don't care it's 4 stars because I own it. I knew that before I bought it. Everyone needs criticism at times and this is it.

Also to suggest in the 520 review for people to use the motion flow option smooth high is crazy. That adds frames to create a completely un natural presentation nothing like the cinema - well it does on the 500 and I can't imagine it being and different.

To surmise I don't see how one is 4 star and the other 5 both were unique in the market at their price points providing fantastic performance and neither are cheap. Ones short comings must also be the other unless you discovered reality creation benefit only in testing the 520. Tut tut

I also think the pj facilities could do with a boost to a much larger screen and a completely blacked out room. If you want fair testing conditions for all pj's that is what is required guys n gals for proper fair black level performance and assessment

All the best

so which projector do you own? couldn't tell

 

[bigboss]

I think the reasons are:

1) There were no 4K clips to demo on the 500 (the review does not mention if any 4K material was tested),

2) There wasn't much 4K content available that time, making the 500 an expensive proposition.

 

[bigboss]

so which projector do you own? couldn't tell

500

 

[nugget2014]

ohhh, i thought ellis had a 1080p projector. unless it was a relatively new purchase? i hope the 4k resolution looks amazing on it because buying into the 4k format on disc just for 1 advantage doesn't seem that great of an idea, missing out on WCG and 10 bit+HDR (i assume the projector has none of the listed benefits of 4k) still would be great seeing an actual 4k image like the cinema on a massive screen. possibly even rivalling immserviness of a tv with all those features.

shame i cant afford a 4k projector!

 

[ellisdj]

I bought that projector because of the distance I sit from the screen, very very close.

It is 10 Bit but not HDR - However HDR on a projector remains to be seen for its true benefit, sure it will be there but maybe not as much as a TV - already no where near the brightness or black level. But as it is parts of films I am watching now are dazzling bright because of the size of it, but thats not really what HDR is about - its about extra detail and creative freedom to have dark and light in the same scene without one compromising the other in the mastering stage

+ I Need all the resolution and sharpness (not using the sharpness option in the menu) I can get. 4k will benefit me I think but I am not diving straight in, we will see.

WHF do mention seeing 4k content from a Sony Media Hub which is probably what I saw Kalibrate UK which did look truly excellent.

They mark it down for its blu ray performance but the 520 will be identical as will the 300 - the difference being the contrast ratio of the 3 models. I am under no illusion the 520 is a better PJ than the 500, double the contrast ratio is excellent and HDR but the rest is pretty much the same. Considering the bulk of the performance of the 520 was available a year to 18 months ago for the same money makes that less expensive based on the market as a whole as other players in the market also do HDR now even if not native 4k. Its been argued their eshift tech is nearly indistinguishable from Native 4K at 100" rough size but I have not seen it to confirm that

 

[ellisdj]

Nugget in terms of immersiveness nothing compares to pj. Especially 100 inch scope screen at 7 feet away.
It's pretty much all screen you can see. That has many cons hence the need for the highest quality image from the PJ

 

[bigboss]

Yes, even I've read reports of e-shift being indistinguishable from native 4K, with the added advantage of sharper 1080p pictures. Will be interesting to compare.

 

[ellisdj]

Not on a huge screen by all accounts but 110" ish.

Bear in mind that was with streamed content which is only blu ray quality at best.

Need true 4k content from UHD Blu Ray to see how good all this stuff is really, thenm another 12 months for new stuff to be out taking advantage of the extra res 10 bit data - as most stuff is not finished at 4k its just going to be upscaled.

Thats what Reality Creation does on the Sony Sharpens / focuses the image.

True videophiles would turn that off for the true source look but its miles betterr with it on.

You could add Darby to yours BB and it would be similar I think, thats just educated guess

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Netflix USA has been streaming 4K for a while now, but I think it's only 24 FPS. 4K BluRays are about to hit / have just hit the shelves and you can always upscale on your current BDP or receiver if it / they can do it. That might work better than the PJ upscaling.

Just saying.

Also, the 500-series are pretty much Sony's entry level 4K PJs, and you need to step up to the 665 or better for a marked improvement. The 665 is, however, $15K plus tax in the US, so it'll be a while before I get mine.

Finally, I heard on AVSforum.com that Texas Instruments or someone is about to release a new type of 4K chip, which should (a) be half the price of the Sony and (b) introduce some much needed competition into the 4K PJ market.

 

[nugget2014]

ellis/bigboss. how long do you think it will take for 4k projectors to come down to around £2000? i want one bad but would never pay more than £2000 for tv/projector (at my moment in life anyway) who knows when i'm 40-50!

 

[bigboss]

2 years I guess.

 

[ellisdj]

Netflix USA has been streaming 4K for a while now, but I think it's only 24 FPS. 4K BluRays are about to hit / have just hit the shelves and you can always upscale on your current BDP or receiver if it / they can do it. That might work better than the PJ upscaling.

Just saying.

Also, the 500-series are pretty much Sony's entry level 4K PJs, and you need to step up to the 665 or better for a marked improvement. The 665 is, however, $15K plus tax in the US, so it'll be a while before I get mine.

Finally, I heard on AVSforum.com that Texas Instruments or someone is about to release a new type of 4K chip, which should (a) be half the price of the Sony and (b) introduce some much needed competition into the 4K PJ market.

The Sony VW665 is the model after the VW500

They are pretty much identical - the 665 is the VW520 equivalent.

The numbers are different in Europe. 500 Europe 600 States.

So if think the 665 is a good PJ the VW500 is pretty much that good - its very very good otherwise I would never have bought it

 

[ellisdj]

I found a review that showed the same shot on the VW500 and 520 forr comparison it was interesting, cant for life of me find it again

However this is a serious riew of the 520 - just needs translating. There are 4 or more pages you just need to find the next page link / button towards rhe bottom of the page, the site its terrible to navigate

 

[nugget2014]

2 years I guess.

just in time for my tv upgrade then. 3 years to be safe!

 

[Frank Harvey]

ellis/bigboss. how long do you think it will take for 4k projectors to come down to around £2000? i want one bad but would never pay more than £2000 for tv/projector (at my moment in life anyway) who knows when i'm 40-50!

I think you could possibly be looking up to another 5 years. The reason I say this is twofold. One, we expected around £4.5k last year, which didn't happen. And two, is that whilst the price of technology tumbles, the lower it gets, the slower the decrease. The very first of any product is built to very high standards with very high quality parts. The manufacturer then has to start cutting corners to reduce the price, and this gets harder and herder the lower the price gets.

 

[ellisdj]

They were already cutting corners from the 1000 to the 500 in the lens.

TheN there is new tech going in new HDMI chips and boards etc.

Its needs competition on the market, until then there are cheaper options from Epson and JVC that will still be truly excellent and probably very close in performance.

One thing for the Sony, it just works - no HDMI handhaKe issues or anything as you would expect.

I think JVC are A bit notorius for a few bugs like HDMI Handshaking and stuff like that. Thats purely rumour mill over personal experience although this was happening for mY demo of the JVC X500

The Sony is not perfect though I am not saying that

 

[ellisdj]

When your talking HDR you need both good blacks and bright whites on the same image.

Blacks in PJ's are bleached out by ambient light. Screen dependent, but its the case for all the Acoustic Transparent Screens I looked at.

Look at these shots I took yesterday

The front of the room is blacked out - literally just the screen is visible, within reason

But the back of the room is light up like daytime

Thats not even a full screen thats a 16:9 image which is a lot narrower than the 2.35:1 ratio and the PJ is on low lamp mode and not set that bright in calibration.

This is an extreme case of pretty much full field white but this lighting of the room is affecting my black level and therefore available contrast ratio - how am I going to get the full benefit of HDR?

This is also why people properly bat cave their rooms

 

[nugget2014]

ellis/bigboss. how long do you think it will take for 4k projectors to come down to around £2000? i want one bad but would never pay more than £2000 for tv/projector (at my moment in life anyway) who knows when i'm 40-50!

I think you could possibly be looking up to another 5 years. The reason I say this is twofold. One, we expected around £4.5k last year, which didn't happen. And two, is that whilst the price of technology tumbles, the lower it gets, the slower the decrease. The very first of any product is built to very high standards with very high quality parts. The manufacturer then has to start cutting corners to reduce the price, and this gets harder and herder the lower the price gets.

either way 4k projectors are stupidly overpriced. an excellent 1080p projector costs about £1000, yet a good 4k one is about £9000! 4x the pixels but 9x the price..totally not worth it!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

ellis/bigboss. how long do you think it will take for 4k projectors to come down to around £2000? i want one bad but would never pay more than £2000 for tv/projector (at my moment in life anyway) who knows when i'm 40-50!

I think you could possibly be looking up to another 5 years. The reason I say this is twofold. One, we expected around £4.5k last year, which didn't happen. And two, is that whilst the price of technology tumbles, the lower it gets, the slower the decrease. The very first of any product is built to very high standards with very high quality parts. The manufacturer then has to start cutting corners to reduce the price, and this gets harder and herder the lower the price gets.

either way 4k projectors are stupidly overpriced. an excellent 1080p projector costs about £1000, yet a good 4k one is about £9000! 4x the pixels but 9x the price..totally not worth it!

Slight exaggeration!

 

[nugget2014]

ellis/bigboss. how long do you think it will take for 4k projectors to come down to around £2000? i want one bad but would never pay more than £2000 for tv/projector (at my moment in life anyway) who knows when i'm 40-50!

I think you could possibly be looking up to another 5 years. The reason I say this is twofold. One, we expected around £4.5k last year, which didn't happen. And two, is that whilst the price of technology tumbles, the lower it gets, the slower the decrease. The very first of any product is built to very high standards with very high quality parts. The manufacturer then has to start cutting corners to reduce the price, and this gets harder and herder the lower the price gets.

either way 4k projectors are stupidly overpriced. an excellent 1080p projector costs about £1000, yet a good 4k one is about £9000! 4x the pixels but 9x the price..totally not worth it!

Slight exaggeration!

no. i am using an example of a 4k projector that costs £9000 which is 9x the amount..

 

[ellisdj]

Nugget its 9x the price of an average TV for example but it will produce an Image 9x the size, probably 9 x better in 90% of areas, when you factor that in the numbers add up a lot better

 

[MajorFubar]

i ... would never pay more than £2000 for tv/projector (at my moment in life anyway) who knows when i'm 40-50!

Well I'm that age and if you're like me you'll have had a family and the thought of spending anything like that on HiFi and AV is suddenly a pipe dream. Many single kids in their teens and 20s have more disposable income than they'll ever likely have again this side of retirement (and maybe after) but they just don't know it Openly admit I was one of them.

 

[Frank Harvey]

either way 4k projectors are stupidly overpriced. an excellent 1080p projector costs about £1000, yet a good 4k one is about £9000! 4x the pixels but 9x the price..totally not worth it!

I personally disagree. An "excellent 1080p projector" is nearer £2,000 and a "good 4K one" is just under £6,000. For the difference in performance - even just with Bluray - it is very much worth it.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

either way 4k projectors are stupidly overpriced. an excellent 1080p projector costs about £1000, yet a good 4k one is about £9000! 4x the pixels but 9x the price..totally not worth it!

I personally disagree. An "excellent 1080p projector" is nearer £2,000 and a "good 4K one" is just under £6,000. For the difference in performance - even just with Bluray - it is very much worth it.

Agreed.