Very Best Speakers (max Height 27cm & Width 21cm) for Sonos Connect Amp?

[davedotco]

What EXACTLY is wrong with the Connect:Amp that it can't be paired with speakers like that?

This question is flame bait.

The Sonos Connect costs £279, and the Connect:Amp, which is the same thing with an amp, costs £399.

So the answer to your question is, nothing is wrong with it - it is a nice little £120 amp that has pretty good sound for the price.

The implication behind your question and subsequent baiting is that anyone who suggests that this £120 amp might not a good choice to drive £1500 speakers is just being a snob. The magazine which is our host would disagree. Most of the posters on here disagree and most have put their money where their ears are. Most people who have ever upgraded an amp would disagree.

What you are doing is called 'trolling.' Sort of like going on a football club forum and making posts supporting their big rival. You want someone to take the bait. And when no one did, you repeated the question.

And ok, maybe this is your opinion, that a Sonos will drive high-end speakers as well as any 50W per channel amp, and you have a right to express it. But you are simply wrong (or perhaps have damaged ears). The Sonos amps sound pretty decent, but even entry-level amps from the likes of Cambridge and NAD blow them out of the water, with ANY speakers. The OP was intimating that he might consider buying some very expensive speakers to drive with his Sonos. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of hifi knows that's a mistake and we're trying to tell him. Why troll that kind of a thread?

I have, sitting next to me, a 50WPC Naim and a 120WPC NAD. On every speaker I have ever tested, over a range of sensitivities and characters, the Naim blows away the NAD - the only speaker for which it was even close was the ProAc Studio 100 (which worked beautifully with the NAD). It isn't all about watts and sensitivity - amps matter. A lot. It isn't snobbery, it's using your ears (for like, 6 seconds).

What's wrong with the Sonos? Well, compared to almost any dedicated hifi amp on the market, it SUCKS, especially with grown-up speakers. The Sonos is something I would buy for my mother, not an audiophile who wants to drive money-no-object speakers. Is that the answer you were looking for? Are you happy now that one of the snobs on this snobby forum took your flame bait?

Wow.

And I thought I could get a bit 'snippy'.

I should now lecture you on how you should be able to enjoy your music on the legendary Roberts radio or perhaps some hopeless all in one.

But I won't.... :clap:

 

[Richard Allen]

What EXACTLY is wrong with the Connect:Amp that it can't be paired with speakers like that?

This question is flame bait.

The Sonos Connect costs £279, and the Connect:Amp, which is the same thing with an amp, costs £399.

So the answer to your question is, nothing is wrong with it - it is a nice little £120 amp that has pretty good sound for the price.

The implication behind your question and subsequent baiting is that anyone who suggests that this £120 amp might not a good choice to drive £1500 speakers is just being a snob. The magazine which is our host would disagree. Most of the posters on here disagree and most have put their money where their ears are. Most people who have ever upgraded an amp would disagree.

What you are doing is called 'trolling.' Sort of like going on a football club forum and making posts supporting their big rival. You want someone to take the bait. And when no one did, you repeated the question.

And ok, maybe this is your opinion, that a Sonos will drive high-end speakers as well as any 50W per channel amp, and you have a right to express it. But you are simply wrong (or perhaps have damaged ears). The Sonos amps sound pretty decent, but even entry-level amps from the likes of Cambridge and NAD blow them out of the water, with ANY speakers. The OP was intimating that he might consider buying some very expensive speakers to drive with his Sonos. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of hifi knows that's a mistake and we're trying to tell him. Why troll that kind of a thread?

I have, sitting next to me, a 50WPC Naim and a 120WPC NAD. On every speaker I have ever tested, over a range of sensitivities and characters, the Naim blows away the NAD - the only speaker for which it was even close was the ProAc Studio 100 (which worked beautifully with the NAD). It isn't all about watts and sensitivity - amps matter. A lot. It isn't snobbery, it's using your ears (for like, 6 seconds).

What's wrong with the Sonos? Well, compared to almost any dedicated hifi amp on the market, it SUCKS, especially with grown-up speakers. The Sonos is something I would buy for my mother, not an audiophile who wants to drive money-no-object speakers. Is that the answer you were looking for? Are you happy now that one of the snobs on this snobby forum took your flame bait?

Wow.

And I thought I could get a bit 'snippy'.

I should now lecture you on how you should be able to enjoy your music on the legendary Roberts radio or perhaps some hopeless all in one.

But I won't.... :clap:

Cmon Dave. Whatz next??. I know. Vintage Hacker Radios. :rofl:

 

[spiny norman]

I should now lecture you

Hmm, doesn't sound like you... :rofl:

 

[Richard Allen]

What EXACTLY is wrong with the Connect:Amp that it can't be paired with speakers like that?

This question is flame bait.

No, it's a question. All I ever hear is that the Connect:Amp isn't good enough for this speaker or that speaker. Nobody EVER explains why. Now they have, albeit rather minimally, I'm content with the answer, just. I would still like some more detailed technical explanation, if anyone can give it to me.

I have, sitting next to me, a 50WPC Naim and a 120WPC NAD. On every speaker I have ever tested, over a range of sensitivities and characters, the Naim blows away the NAD - the only speaker for which it was even close was the ProAc Studio 100 (which worked beautifully with the NAD). It isn't all about watts and sensitivity - amps matter.

And that is exactly my point, the Connect:Amp is 55W, so what makes it a "bad" amplifier, compared to your Naim (for example)? I don't know the answer to that, I'm not a technical person, that's why I ask the question, are you going to answer it (I'm guessing not because I don't think you know the answer, much like most people on here. I do know there ARE people here that CAN answer the question satisfactorily, hopefully one of those will chip in at some point)?

What's wrong with the Sonos? Well, compared to almost any dedicated hifi amp on the market,

I'm pretty sure it is a dedicated hifi amp, it has no other purpose that I'm aware of.

it SUCKS, especially with grown-up speakers.

"grown-up speakers"? Nothing snobbish or condescending about that comment then I guess?

The Sonos is something I would buy for my mother, not an audiophile who wants to drive money-no-object speakers. Is that the answer you were looking for? Are you happy now that one of the snobs on this snobby forum took your flame bait?

I think you need to wind your ******* neck in, I'm just asking a technical question, which, to date, hasn't received much of a technical answer (even now). If nobody can give me a GOOD reason why the Connect:Amp doesn't work with those kind of speakers then what other conclusion am I to draw other than the one I already have?

LHC. Like everything else, it's down to build at the price. The Sonos is great at what it does but when pitched against the likes of Naim and NAD it doesn't seem able to compete on 'grown up speakers'. Why??. It's down to the amount of current as well as voltage presented to the speakers. I've always said that the amplifier doesn't just drive the speaker, it also controls the speaker. Punctuates its performance if you like. Some of the 'grown up speakers' ( I hate that phrase ) are an absolute pig to drive and without the necessary current reserves in the power supply, the amp's gonna trip up.

Sorry for the long paragraph but I hope it helps in some way. The explanation, not the long paragraph.

 

[fr0g]

I agree with The_LHC.

And it isn't a £120 amp compared to the connect. It doesn't need an extra case. So more typically it would be at least a £200 amp.

SpursGator's post is one of the most condascending piles of tripe I have seen in quite a while. Full of illogical assumptions and rhetoric.

I have no idea what the best speakers might be, but to condemn any piece of equipment because "it isn't expensive enough" is a fool's perogative.

 

[Richard Allen]

I agree with The_LHC.

And it isn't a £120 amp compared to the connect. It doesn't need an extra case. So more typically it would be at least a £200 amp.

SpursGator's post is one of the most condascending piles of tripe I have seen in quite a while. Full of illogical assumptions and rhetoric.

I have no idea what the best speakers might be, but to condemn any piece of equipment because "it isn't expensive enough" is a fool's perogative.

I'm afraid I tend to agree with you fr0g. That is why I've tried to explain. The best speakers for the Sonos I think would be Roth RA2 or 3, Q Acoustics. Something within the same ballpark that is a nice easy load to drive. At 55 watts it has enough wattage for the task but it's not a 'Tank' so it needs to be partnered carefully. But isn't that true with most kit??.

 

[davedotco]

I should now lecture you

Hmm, doesn't sound like you... :rofl:

I know, I know......

Glad to see that you have picked up on the new, mellow, non confrontational DDC. This is my New Year resolution and I am working very hard on it.

 

[SpursGator]

I agree with The_LHC.

And it isn't a £120 amp compared to the connect. It doesn't need an extra case. So more typically it would be at least a £200 amp.

SpursGator's post is one of the most condascending piles of tripe I have seen in quite a while. Full of illogical assumptions and rhetoric.

I have no idea what the best speakers might be, but to condemn any piece of equipment because "it isn't expensive enough" is a fool's perogative.

My post was grouchy and came out far nastier than I really intended (written at great speed between two other work emails that were far more annoying). So sorry about the lack of decorum.

However, I have repeatedly come out in favour of various budget-priced equipement on this forum. I have praised, at various times, Tripath amps, Boston Acoustics speakers, Roth Audio speakers, some of the lower-priced NAD amps, the KEF Q series, my mate's Yamaha HC receiver that he bought used for 30 quid, and many others. I am NOT a snob about pricing and I regret that, for those who have not followed some of the other arguments I have had on this forum (with LHC and others), that may not have been clear.

My impatience with LHC's pounding away at that question is that there is a contingent on this site which likes to argue that amplifiers don't matter much, if at all - and that people who disagree are somehow blinded by the conspiracy (led by WHF among others) to make us throw our money away on their advertisers' products. To me that is even more condescending - to suggest that differences I hear in amps is somehow all in my imagination, and that the whole hifi industry outside of speakers is a bit of a scam, of which idiots like me are victims.

I felt that the question about the Sonos was bait to get that old argument rolling again, and when he asked it the second time I got all fired up. Perhaps I misunderstood but I think not.

To me, if you are going full-on against decades of established wisdom (as well as differences that I can hear with my own ears), the burden of proof is on you, not me. I'm not sure, Frog, what illogical assumptions am I making (condescending is a a fairer comment so I will let it lie) other than that if a company has thrived for decades building a product that costs several times as much as another, that it is probably for a reason - companies who build products that are overpriced or of poor quality tend to fail in the marketplace.

In this case, however, I don't need to rely on this kind of market logic since I have actually heard the Sonos Connect:Amp. It reminds me of the JVC receiver I bought when I was 18 - clear, airy, distortion free, and crisp, but a flat soundstage, no PRAT, and quite sterile. It's lightweight, something for the mass market that one finds in big box shops. Even if it is £200 - how many decent two channel amps do you see on this site for £200?

All the same, I do not believe it is a bad product - quite the opposite. Do a quick search on this forum and you will see that at least once, I recommended it! I am only saying - as several others did - that it is not enough amp to get the best out of far higher-end speakers. Which is true almost beyond question. Using the 5:1 rule, we can surmise that there are about £40 worth of parts in that £200 amp. Go out and have a look at what a good transformer costs - you can't even put a decent transformer in there for what it costs. That isn't me saying that something for 10 grand is better than something for 5 grand simply because it costs more, as I am being accused of. It's just logic. Really highly resolving speakers are going to expose that amp.

If LHC really is asking a serious question, then I apologise for thinking it was rhetorical and getting all worked up. I suspect, given his active and longtime participation on this forum, that he is aware of the limitations of an amp of this price and weight. Specifically, I am talking about the quality of the components, particularly in the power supply - just doing 55W peak at a certain THD tested a certain way tells us very little. How much current can it put out? How does it handle peaks? When it sees a lower impedence load, can it keep up the power, or does it distort? Sonos only gives an 'average power' rating into 8 ohms - almost everyone in the industry at least makes a claim at 4 ohms. It's a Class D amp; how many high-end speaker manufacturers would prefer class D amplification? It has a subwoofer crossover (also included in that £200 BTW) - how are the components in that?

Surely LHC is aware of some of these factors that would make the Sonos a poor choice for high-end speakers? After posting here for years?

So: if my beechy tone obscured my message, it's my fault. But I'm still right. If there is anyone here who thinks it's a good choice to use the Sonos for expensive, high-end speakers, then please, speak up. Tell us how amps don't matter. I say that they do. A lot.

 

[Um]

I agree with The_LHC.

And it isn't a £120 amp compared to the connect. It doesn't need an extra case. So more typically it would be at least a £200 amp.

SpursGator's post is one of the most condascending piles of tripe I have seen in quite a while. Full of illogical assumptions and rhetoric.

I have no idea what the best speakers might be, but to condemn any piece of equipment because "it isn't expensive enough" is a fool's perogative.

My post was grouchy and came out far nastier than I really intended (written at great speed between two other work emails that were far more annoying). So sorry about the lack of decorum.

However, I have repeatedly come out in favour of various budget-priced equipement on this forum. I have praised, at various times, Tripath amps, Boston Acoustics speakers, Roth Audio speakers, some of the lower-priced NAD amps, the KEF Q series, my mate's Yamaha HC receiver that he bought used for 30 quid, and many others. I am NOT a snob about pricing and I regret that, for those who have not followed some of the other arguments I have had on this forum (with LHC and others), that may not have been clear.

My impatience with LHC's pounding away at that question is that there is a contingent on this site which likes to argue that amplifiers don't matter much, if at all - and that people who disagree are somehow blinded by the conspiracy (led by WHF among others) to make us throw our money away on their advertisers' products. To me that is even more condescending - to suggest that differences I hear in amps is somehow all in my imagination, and that the whole hifi industry outside of speakers is a bit of a scam, of which idiots like me are victims.

I felt that the question about the Sonos was bait to get that old argument rolling again, and when he asked it the second time I got all fired up. Perhaps I misunderstood but I think not.

To me, if you are going full-on against decades of established wisdom (as well as differences that I can hear with my own ears), the burden of proof is on you, not me. I'm not sure, Frog, what illogical assumptions am I making (condescending is a a fairer comment so I will let it lie) other than that if a company has thrived for decades building a product that costs several times as much as another, that it is probably for a reason - companies who build products that are overpriced or of poor quality tend to fail in the marketplace.

In this case, however, I don't need to rely on this kind of market logic since I have actually heard the Sonos Connect:Amp. It reminds me of the JVC receiver I bought when I was 18 - clear, airy, distortion free, and crisp, but a flat soundstage, no PRAT, and quite sterile. It's lightweight, something for the mass market that one finds in big box shops. Even if it is £200 - how many decent two channel amps do you see on this site for £200?

All the same, I do not believe it is a bad product - quite the opposite. Do a quick search on this forum and you will see that at least once, I recommended it! I am only saying - as several others did - that it is not enough amp to get the best out of far higher-end speakers. Which is true almost beyond question. Using the 5:1 rule, we can surmise that there are about £40 worth of parts in that £200 amp. Go out and have a look at what a good transformer costs - you can't even put a decent transformer in there for what it costs. That isn't me saying that something for 10 grand is better than something for 5 grand simply because it costs more, as I am being accused of. It's just logic. Really highly resolving speakers are going to expose that amp.

If LHC really is asking a serious question, then I apologise for thinking it was rhetorical and getting all worked up. I suspect, given his active and longtime participation on this forum, that he is aware of the limitations of an amp of this price and weight. Specifically, I am talking about the quality of the components, particularly in the power supply - just doing 55W peak at a certain THD tested a certain way tells us very little. How much current can it put out? How does it handle peaks? When it sees a lower impedence load, can it keep up the power, or does it distort? Sonos only gives an 'average power' rating into 8 ohms - almost everyone in the industry at least makes a claim at 4 ohms. It's a Class D amp; how many high-end speaker manufacturers would prefer class D amplification? It has a subwoofer crossover (also included in that £200 BTW) - how are the components in that?

Surely LHC is aware of some of these factors that would make the Sonos a poor choice for high-end speakers? After posting here for years?

So: if my beechy tone obscured my message, it's my fault. But I'm still right. If there is anyone here who thinks it's a good choice to use the Sonos for expensive, high-end speakers, then please, speak up. Tell us how amps don't matter. I say that they do. A lot.

and I thought this thread was about recommending speakers?

sorry and you used PRAT....... Which really is a massive load of cobllers

 

[the record spot]

Tannoy DC4, Neat Iota, or Dali Menuets. Depending on budget.

 

[chebby]

I should now lecture you on how you should be able to enjoy your music on the legendary Roberts radio or perhaps some hopeless all in one.

Having reminded me of the regard in which you actually hold the M-CR610 (just this afternoon), i'd be interested to know which "hopeless all in one" you are thinking of.

 

[SJCT99]

Hi Guys, I'm the OP and I have just waded through all the posts. Wow I had no idea I what had started. Anyway to bring us back to my original question I am looking for small but high quality speakers that will for now be powered by my Sonos Connect Amp but I hope to up grade the amp next and just use the Sonos line out as just 1 source amongst many. I love the ease of Sonos but that doesn't mean I want a low grade quick and easy listen all the time and I don't want to limit my amp upgrade by getting budget speakers. In fact I imagine getting speakers that show up the liminitaions in the sonos will only speed up the arrival of an amp upgrade. I am interested in a demo of the Arcam A19 with an Arcam dac or a naim unitiqute or a roksan kandy amongst others. I don't like an in your face or very analytical sound but equally don't like wooly. So I guess like many others the path to upgrades is complicated by the fact I haven't got unlimited funds to go and buy everything all at once. I thought it made sense to start with upgrading my speakers first with about a top budget of £800 but don't mind buying second hand if that makes the money go further. Thanks for those who gave some speaker models to look into and they will go on my demo wish list. I promise my original post was true and sincere and not designed to antagonise. Oh and I definitely can not wall mount the speakers.

 

[davedotco]

I should now lecture you on how you should be able to enjoy your music on the legendary Roberts radio or perhaps some hopeless all in one.

Having reminded me of the regard in which you actually hold the M-CR610 (just this afternoon), i'd be interested to know which "hopeless all in one" you are thinking of.

Actually I was thinking of the awful 'Hi-fi docking station' I heard at a friends at the weekend, the brand was unknown to me and I have since forgotton what it was. They were very pleased with it and I was told it was really 'pretty good'.

It wasn't, it was carp and not cheap either. It cost about the same as my AEX and active Seiwins.

 

[fr0g]

I agree with The_LHC.

And it isn't a £120 amp compared to the connect. It doesn't need an extra case. So more typically it would be at least a £200 amp.

SpursGator's post is one of the most condascending piles of tripe I have seen in quite a while. Full of illogical assumptions and rhetoric.

I have no idea what the best speakers might be, but to condemn any piece of equipment because "it isn't expensive enough" is a fool's perogative.

My post was grouchy and came out far nastier than I really intended (written at great speed between two other work emails that were far more annoying). So sorry about the lack of decorum.

However, I have repeatedly come out in favour of various budget-priced equipement on this forum. I have praised, at various times, Tripath amps, Boston Acoustics speakers, Roth Audio speakers, some of the lower-priced NAD amps, the KEF Q series, my mate's Yamaha HC receiver that he bought used for 30 quid, and many others. I am NOT a snob about pricing and I regret that, for those who have not followed some of the other arguments I have had on this forum (with LHC and others), that may not have been clear.

My impatience with LHC's pounding away at that question is that there is a contingent on this site which likes to argue that amplifiers don't matter much, if at all - and that people who disagree are somehow blinded by the conspiracy (led by WHF among others) to make us throw our money away on their advertisers' products. To me that is even more condescending - to suggest that differences I hear in amps is somehow all in my imagination, and that the whole hifi industry outside of speakers is a bit of a scam, of which idiots like me are victims.

I felt that the question about the Sonos was bait to get that old argument rolling again, and when he asked it the second time I got all fired up. Perhaps I misunderstood but I think not.

To me, if you are going full-on against decades of established wisdom (as well as differences that I can hear with my own ears), the burden of proof is on you, not me. I'm not sure, Frog, what illogical assumptions am I making (condescending is a a fairer comment so I will let it lie) other than that if a company has thrived for decades building a product that costs several times as much as another, that it is probably for a reason - companies who build products that are overpriced or of poor quality tend to fail in the marketplace.

In this case, however, I don't need to rely on this kind of market logic since I have actually heard the Sonos Connect:Amp. It reminds me of the JVC receiver I bought when I was 18 - clear, airy, distortion free, and crisp, but a flat soundstage, no PRAT, and quite sterile. It's lightweight, something for the mass market that one finds in big box shops. Even if it is £200 - how many decent two channel amps do you see on this site for £200?

All the same, I do not believe it is a bad product - quite the opposite. Do a quick search on this forum and you will see that at least once, I recommended it! I am only saying - as several others did - that it is not enough amp to get the best out of far higher-end speakers. Which is true almost beyond question. Using the 5:1 rule, we can surmise that there are about £40 worth of parts in that £200 amp. Go out and have a look at what a good transformer costs - you can't even put a decent transformer in there for what it costs. That isn't me saying that something for 10 grand is better than something for 5 grand simply because it costs more, as I am being accused of. It's just logic. Really highly resolving speakers are going to expose that amp.

If LHC really is asking a serious question, then I apologise for thinking it was rhetorical and getting all worked up. I suspect, given his active and longtime participation on this forum, that he is aware of the limitations of an amp of this price and weight. Specifically, I am talking about the quality of the components, particularly in the power supply - just doing 55W peak at a certain THD tested a certain way tells us very little. How much current can it put out? How does it handle peaks? When it sees a lower impedence load, can it keep up the power, or does it distort? Sonos only gives an 'average power' rating into 8 ohms - almost everyone in the industry at least makes a claim at 4 ohms. It's a Class D amp; how many high-end speaker manufacturers would prefer class D amplification? It has a subwoofer crossover (also included in that £200 BTW) - how are the components in that?

Surely LHC is aware of some of these factors that would make the Sonos a poor choice for high-end speakers? After posting here for years?

So: if my beechy tone obscured my message, it's my fault. But I'm still right. If there is anyone here who thinks it's a good choice to use the Sonos for expensive, high-end speakers, then please, speak up. Tell us how amps don't matter. I say that they do. A lot.

Illogical assumption 1. "Most of the posters here...blah blah" - Appeal to majority

2. "You are trolling" - Ad hominem.

There may be more, I stopped re-reading there.

If you just gave your personal experience of this amp, that would be far more informational IMO. But the post (and this one to a degree comes across as far too much of a generalisation.

By the way, I had a class D amp (albeit quite a bit more expensive), and it happily doubled its power into 4 ohms. No idea about the Sonos, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if it did something similar.

 

[SJCT99]

The varied answers to my OP have got me thinking of going down a different route. I have borrowed a UnitiQute to demo and try out at home. I have it hooked up to my existing Arcam Muso speaker and Kef HTB2 sub and it is a step up from the sonos amp (but I would still look to upgrade the speakers next). I am still using the sonos analogue outputs as one of the sources going into the unitiqute. My sonos doesn't have a digital out, am I right in saying if I sold my sonos amp and bought the new sonos connect which has digital out that if I then sent the sonos digital output into one of the digital inputs on the unitiqute that that would give better results? Especially if the sonos was sending out something like Qobuz (subscription needed see what hifi news) which has unlimited streaming access to CD-quality FLAC files at 16-bit/44.1kHz (you can also download tracks in 'Qobuz Studio Masters', up to 24-bit/192kHz). For the next three months, Sonos is offering new customers who buy a Sonos Connect or Connect:Amp from selected AV dealers a free three-month Qobuz trial.

 

[BigH]

Can you tell is more about yout cabinet? Size, how long and how high will the speakers be and how far apart? How far away will your listening position be?

 

[SJCT99]

Top Left & Right voids of the hifi cabinet are made for a pair of small speakers and their dimensions are:

H 27.5 cm x W 21.5cm x D 42.0cm

The bottom of the speakers will be 30cm off the floor and the top of the speakers would be a maximum hight of 58cm off the floor.

The maximum distance between the outside left of the left speaker and the outside right of the right speaker is 108cm. And the gap between the left and right speaker voids (which is where my amp etc go) is 57cm wide.

The voids for the speakers are made from wood and enclose the speakers on all sides apart from the very front and the very back. The back of the hifi cabinet is 10cm from the rear wall which is brick covered in plaster board.

 

[The_Lhc]

I am still using the sonos analogue outputs as one of the sources going into the unitiqute.

I must have missed something here, I thought you had a Connect:Amp? That doesn't have an analogue line-out. What are you plugging into the Unitiqute?

 

[The_Lhc]

By the way, I had a class D amp (albeit quite a bit more expensive), and it happily doubled its power into 4 ohms. No idea about the Sonos, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if it did something similar.

Apparently it does yes.

 

[The_Lhc]

and I thought this thread was about recommending speakers?

It is but I asked the question about the Connect:Amp, so if you want to blame anyone for thread drift, blame me, it's not really fair to blame someone for simply answering a question.

 

[matt49]

The bottom of the speakers will be 30cm off the floor and the top of the speakers would be a maximum hight of 58cm off the floor.

One problem you have here is that most hifi speakers are designed to sound their best with the tweeters at ear height. The dispersion of high frequency sound from a tweeter is generally not very wide. Assuming you'll be sitting on a sofa opposite the speakers, the tweeters will be firing at your knees and will miss your ears.

Is there really no way you could mount some speakers on the wall above your cabinet? Otherwise you're not going to get a good result from your investment in speakers.

Matt

 

[The_Lhc]

My impatience with LHC's pounding away at that question is that there is a contingent on this site which likes to argue that amplifiers don't matter much, if at all

Yes, there are, I'm definitely not one of those however, I believe turntables make a difference, I think analogue outputs can make a difference but probably not digital outputs (so I really only think it's the quality of the analogue output stage on a DAC that really matters), speakers matter, obviously and amplifiers as well (just not quite as much as speakers do). I don't think digital cables make any difference, analogue and speaker cables possibly but not to a great extent (and not enough to worry about paying a lot for them, I use generic cables typically). I'm not a believer in power cables and the like.

I felt that the question about the Sonos was bait to get that old argument rolling again, and when he asked it the second time I got all fired up. Perhaps I misunderstood but I think not.

Sorry but you did.

To me, if you are going full-on against decades of established wisdom (as well as differences that I can hear with my own ears), the burdenof proof is on you, not me.

That's the point, I WASN'T going against any wisdom, I was asking for the reasons behind that wisdom. I'm an atheist, I gave up believe that things are true just because "they are" a long time ago. If you want me to accept something as fact you have to show me the evidence.

Really highly resolving speakers are going to expose that amp.

Ok, that's fine, I just want to know why. Relatively recently on here I've read people talking about various aspects of amplifier design such damping factor and so forth, that's the kind of information I was after, what is that the Sonos Connect:Amp lacks that something like the 50W Naim you mentioned has, as I'm aware that Watts are not the whole story (particularly given some very good reviews I've seen of tube amps that barely manage 8W).

If LHC really is asking a serious question, then I apologise for thinking it was rhetorical and getting all worked up. I suspect, given his active and longtime participation on this forum, that he is aware of the limitations of an amp of this price and weight.

No, I really don't have the faintest idea. Do you ever watch Top Gear? Jeremy Clarkson's the most famous car nut in the world but he doesn't have a clue about how cars work, beyond accelerator equals go, brakes equal stop. That's pretty much my level of knowledge regarding things like amplifiers.

Surely LHC is aware of some of these factors that would make the Sonos a poor choice for high-end speakers? After posting here for years?

Why would I be? As you say, Sonos don't really publish figures like that and nobody else has ever explained its limitations (here or anywhere else that I read), so I just thought I'd ask for once.

 

[BigH]

Top Left & Right voids of the hifi cabinet are made for a pair of small speakers and their dimensions are:

H 27.5 cm x W 21.5cm x D 42.0cm

The bottom of the speakers will be 30cm off the floor and the top of the speakers would be a maximum hight of 58cm off the floor.

The maximum distance between the outside left of the left speaker and the outside right of the right speaker is 108cm. And the gap between the left and right speaker voids (which is where my amp etc go) is 57cm wide.

The voids for the speakers are made from wood and enclose the speakers on all sides apart from the very front and the very back. The back of the hifi cabinet is 10cm from the rear wall which is brick covered in plaster board.

Well you going to have problems then, first they are too low unless you sit on the floor, then they are too close unless your head is about 2 feet away. Also think you will need some isolation material. Really most speakers need to be at least a metre apart to get a reasonable stereo effect and soundstage but preferable about 6 feet if you are about 8 feet away. If thats your set up then I would just buy some £100 ones.

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Maybe you need to create a 'wedge' style platform so you can angle these speakers upwards towards the listening position a little?

May wanna add the KEF Q100 's to your list. Great treble dispersion from the Uni-q driver.

 

[Ambrose]

My impatience with LHC's pounding away at that question is that there is a contingent on this site which likes to argue that amplifiers don't matter much, if at all

Yes, there are, I'm definitely not one of those however, I believe turntables make a difference, I think analogue outputs can make a difference but probably not digital outputs (so I really only think it's the quality of the analogue output stage on a DAC that really matters), speakers matter, obviously and amplifiers as well (just not quite as much as speakers do). I don't think digital cables make any difference, analogue and speaker cables possibly but not to a great extent (and not enough to worry about paying a lot for them, I use generic cables typically). I'm not a believer in power cables and the like.

I felt that the question about the Sonos was bait to get that old argument rolling again, and when he asked it the second time I got all fired up. Perhaps I misunderstood but I think not.

Sorry but you did.

To me, if you are going full-on against decades of established wisdom (as well as differences that I can hear with my own ears), the burdenof proof is on you, not me.

That's the point, I WASN'T going against any wisdom, I was asking for the reasons behind that wisdom. I'm an atheist, I gave up believe that things are true just because "they are" a long time ago. If you want me to accept something as fact you have to show me the evidence.

Really highly resolving speakers are going to expose that amp.

Ok, that's fine, I just want to know why. Relatively recently on here I've read people talking about various aspects of amplifier design such damping factor and so forth, that's the kind of information I was after, what is that the Sonos Connect:Amp lacks that something like the 50W Naim you mentioned has, as I'm aware that Watts are not the whole story (particularly given some very good reviews I've seen of tube amps that barely manage 8W).

If LHC really is asking a serious question, then I apologise for thinking it was rhetorical and getting all worked up. I suspect, given his active and longtime participation on this forum, that he is aware of the limitations of an amp of this price and weight.

No, I really don't have the faintest idea. Do you ever watch Top Gear? Jeremy Clarkson's the most famous car nut in the world but he doesn't have a clue about how cars work, beyond accelerator equals go, brakes equal stop. That's pretty much my level of knowledge regarding things like amplifiers.

Surely LHC is aware of some of these factors that would make the Sonos a poor choice for high-end speakers? After posting here for years?

Why would I be? As you say, Sonos don't really publish figures like that and nobody else has ever explained its limitations (here or anywhere else that I read), so I just thought I'd ask for once.

Come on, 12000 posts and pleading ignorance.

JC doesn't know how a car works?

SG may have come across too strong (to which he has acknowedged) but seems to understand hifi components and system building a lot better than certain other narrow minded forum members.

RANT OVER