valve friendly speakers

[lindsayt]

A question for everyone that's posted in this thread so far: do you understand what "good mechanical damping" means in a speaker and how it can be achieved?

Was that the brief? Ok, I take it with your taste in speakers good equals low. In which case we're talking big magnets on big drive units.

Yes the "good mechanical damping" was part of the brief in the OP. As was small size, which lpv relaxed later on.

You're right about big drive units. AFAIK big magnets won't help achieve good mechanical damping.

Part of the secret for achieving good mechanical damping is to avoid the need for damping as much as possible in the first place. This can be done by going large to huge in the total bass cone area.

Most of the speakers mentioned so far have small bass drivers.

And then there's cabinet design. What types of cabinets do you think would be good for getting more mechanical damping? And what might be the downsides of using such cabinets?

There's also the bass driver suspension...

 

[insider9]

Ok, I may have confused electrical damping with mechanical damping. Hence my large magnet comment.

The way this is going well end up with an open baffle design and massive speakers drive units.

 

[lindsayt]

Air is a compressible fluid with a density of 1.2 kgs per cubic metre.

Which of the following cabinet designs are more likely to give more mechanical damping for a given (let's say 15") bass driver?

Open baffle

Relatively small cabinet, ported

Relatively large cabinet, ported

Relatively large cabinet, relatively large diameter port

Small sealed cabinet

Large sealed cabinet

Front firing horn

Corner horn, placed in a corner

 

[chebby]

Air is a compressible fluid with a density of 1.2 kgs per cubic metre.

Which of the following cabinet designs are more likely to give more mechanical damping for a given (let's say 15") bass driver?

Open baffle

Relatively small cabinet, ported

Relatively large cabinet, ported

Relatively large cabinet, relatively large diameter port

Small sealed cabinet

Large sealed cabinet

Front firing horn

Corner horn, placed in a corner

Sealed cabinet will mechanically damp due to compressability of trapped air acting to reduce unwanted bass distortion. (Ed Villchur, Henry Kloss ‘Acoustic Suspension’ etc.)

 

[lpv]

professor lindsay.. professor lindsay..

can you check mr chebby answer please?

 

[CnoEvil]

I had assumed that my first suggestions didn't meet the mechanical damping brief, which I thought would require speakers that would be too big....so gave room friendly options.

The Audio Note design, uses the room to reinforce the bass and so appears to go amazingly low, for their size.

When I heard the AN-E Lx, I couldn't believe how low they went (18 Hz at -6dB). It has efficiency greater than 95 dB @ 1m and Dynamic Headroom of above 108 dB....not much to look at, though.

 

[plastic penguin]

Don't see what the problems are with speakers for valve amps. Some seem to think valve amps are otherworldly amplification.

Albeit I haven't heard a valve amp since the 80s, but any good quality, open speaker should suit. (assuming the room acoustics are up to scratch).

Or have I got this totally wrong and making it too simplistic?

 

[Vladimir]

Air is a compressible fluid with a density of 1.2 kgs per cubic metre.

Which of the following cabinet designs are more likely to give more mechanical damping for a given (let's say 15") bass driver?

Open baffle

Relatively small cabinet, ported

Relatively large cabinet, ported

Relatively large cabinet, relatively large diameter port

Small sealed cabinet

Large sealed cabinet

Front firing horn

Corner horn, placed in a corner

Sealed cabinet will mechanically damp due to compressability of trapped air acting to reduce unwanted bass distortion. (Ed Villchur, Henry Kloss ‘Acoustic Suspension’ etc.)

Depending on the driver it may or may not be suitable for acoustic suspension. What dettermins best application is Thiele-Small Parameters and measurements of driver entering breakup mode, distortion etc.

 

[drummerman]

Don't see what the problems are with speakers for valve amps. Some seem to think valve amps are otherworldly amplification.

Albeit I haven't heard a valve amp since the 80s, but any good quality, open speaker should suit. (assuming the room acoustics are up to scratch).

Or have I got this totally wrong and making it too simplistic?

 

 

Not really. I used my 25w/ch valve amplifier with a pair of sealed Ruark Sabres.

It went plenty loud and I never felt the urge for more volume. Others may want to recreate a live performance in which case a lot of valve power and/or very sensitive speakers which respond to voltage rather than current are required.

 

[Al ears]

Don't see what the problems are with speakers for valve amps. Some seem to think valve amps are otherworldly amplification.

Albeit I haven't heard a valve amp since the 80s, but any good quality, open speaker should suit. (assuming the room acoustics are up to scratch).

Or have I got this totally wrong and making it too simplistic?

Not really. I used my 25w/ch valve amplifier with a pair of sealed Ruark Sabres.

It went plenty loud and I never felt the urge for more volume. Others may want to recreate a live performance in which case a lot of valve power and/or very sensitive speakers which respond to voltage rather than current are required.

Ditto with my 25 wpc and EB2's, never need to push amp above the ten o'clock position on the old volume knob.... Merry Christmas!

 

[lindsayt]

professor lindsay.. professor lindsay..

can you check mr chebby answer please?

Please feel free to make a mature contribution to this thread.

 

[drummerman]

professor lindsay.. professor lindsay..

can you check mr chebby answer please?

 

 

Please feel free to make a mature contribution to this thread.

I would imagine at 6 years old that would be difficult ...

 

[gasolin]

Don't see what the problems are with speakers for valve amps. Some seem to think valve amps are otherworldly amplification.

Albeit I haven't heard a valve amp since the 80s, but any good quality, open speaker should suit. (assuming the room acoustics are up to scratch).

Or have I got this totally wrong and making it too simplistic?

Not really. I used my 25w/ch valve amplifier with a pair of sealed Ruark Sabres.

It went plenty loud and I never felt the urge for more volume. Others may want to recreate a live performance in which case a lot of valve power and/or very sensitive speakers which respond to voltage rather than current are required.

Ditto with my 25 wpc and EB2's, never need to push amp above the ten o'clock position on the old volume knob.... Merry Christmas!

That could be max volume https://youtu.be/JhuWuTDZiuI?t=20m38s

 

[drummerman]

Don't see what the problems are with speakers for valve amps. Some seem to think valve amps are otherworldly amplification.

Albeit I haven't heard a valve amp since the 80s, but any good quality, open speaker should suit. (assuming the room acoustics are up to scratch).

Or have I got this totally wrong and making it too simplistic?

 

 

Not really. I used my 25w/ch valve amplifier with a pair of sealed Ruark Sabres.

It went plenty loud and I never felt the urge for more volume. Others may want to recreate a live performance in which case a lot of valve power and/or very sensitive speakers which respond to voltage rather than current are required.

Ditto with my 25 wpc and EB2's, never need to push amp above the ten o'clock position on the old volume knob.... Merry Christmas!

 

That could be max volume https://youtu.be/JhuWuTDZiuI?t=20m38s

Valid point though probably slightly out of context here.

Valve amps swing voltage. If you have a speaker that responds to this, 20 watts go a long way (see previous comments).

Valve amplifiers also usually start breaking up rather gracefully compared to solidstaters which usually get hard, compressed and harsh.

Many valve amps get soft with transformer saturation.

What your video points out is indeed common. properly adjusted Stepped ladder and electronic volume controls should, in theory overcome this.

It can be show room appeal that can cause cause of the issue ... 'Look how loud THIS amp goes at 9' ... . Other times manufacturers simply choose the wrong value pot for a given product.

Cyrus, as an example, have adjustable input sensitivity on amplifiers which goes some way to solve the problem.

 

[Al ears]

Don't see what the problems are with speakers for valve amps. Some seem to think valve amps are otherworldly amplification.

Albeit I haven't heard a valve amp since the 80s, but any good quality, open speaker should suit. (assuming the room acoustics are up to scratch).

Or have I got this totally wrong and making it too simplistic?

Not really. I used my 25w/ch valve amplifier with a pair of sealed Ruark Sabres.

It went plenty loud and I never felt the urge for more volume. Others may want to recreate a live performance in which case a lot of valve power and/or very sensitive speakers which respond to voltage rather than current are required.

Ditto with my 25 wpc and EB2's, never need to push amp above the ten o'clock position on the old volume knob.... Merry Christmas!

That could be max volume https://youtu.be/JhuWuTDZiuI?t=20m38s

It's not believe me.. ;-)

 

[davidf]

Heco Direkt, Direkt Einklang, and Direkt Dreiklang, all between 94 and 98dB.

 

[Al ears]

Heco Direkt, Direkt Einklang, and Direkt Dreiklang, all between 94 and 98dB.

+1