USB Cable for sound? What Price?

[bigboss]

Not the right thread to ask though; it's way off topic.

 

[lpv]

I believe OP has got his answer by now.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I can also from 1st hand experience say that David is not a hard sell sales man at all. I think we all need to respect different opinions and stop judging people or being nasty to anyone who dares to have a difference in opinion. I get sick reading some of these posts turned sour by little small minded men that act like spoilt little brats

 

[lpv]

I can also from 1st hand experience say that David is not a hard sell sales man at all. I think we all need to respect different opinions and stop judging people or being nasty to anyone who dares to have a difference in opinion. I get sick reading some of these posts turned sour by little small minded men that act like spoilt little brats

I fully sympathaise with you andrew.. I also like the need to respect different opinions and I also don't like small minded men but ( strangely) I don't get sick.

so again... not hard sale

any soft sale?

 

[record_spot]

Well, it does in as much as the cost of the cable and that might be quite an expensive cable per my earlier post...!

Not if borrowed from your friendly dealer. If you don't have a friendly dealer, that's either through bad luck geographically, or choice.

...and assuming you have a relationship with the dealer that would let you walk out with a £100+ cable.

 

[lpv]

relation built on previous purchases. friendship that comes from wallet, a dealer kind of friendship.. a friendship that only last as long as your bank account allows...

friendly dealer - uber cynicism

 

[spiny norman]

What I actually did was, I proved to myself that I was being mislead by expectation bias. I imported the two files into a DAW, aligned them to sample-accuracy, inverted the phase of one of them and sat through three and a half minutes of utter silence as the two identical files nulled each other to zero.

Oh that sounds like such fun! If only all music could be played like that, hi-fi would be so much more scientific, wouldn't it?

 

[cheeseboy]

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html

 

[andyjm]

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html

Thanks for this. Real analysis with numbers. A nice change.

Its not surprising that async self powered DACs show no sensitivity to the type of cable used. I woud have been very surprised if they had.

One criticism is that he doesn't seem to have used a USB powered DAC. It is my guess that if any USB cable is ever going to show a difference it is where is is being used as effectively an analogue interconnect - to supply power rails to the DAC.

 

[MajorFubar]

What I actually did was, I proved to myself that I was being mislead by expectation bias. I imported the two files into a DAW, aligned them to sample-accuracy, inverted the phase of one of them and sat through three and a half minutes of utter silence as the two identical files nulled each other to zero.

Oh that sounds like such fun! If only all music could be played like that, hi-fi would be so much more scientific, wouldn't it?

Congratulations on completely missing the point of why I brought it up. But don't worry I am officially done with this thread. Even for me there is only so many times i can labour the same point before giving up and accepting that no matter how you explain it to some people they just won't ever accept it because they choose not to.

A quick warning though, don't ever go into a pro audio shop or join a producers' forum and ask them what kind of HiFi quality USB cable do they recommend for use with your audio interface, or they'll laugh you out the place.

I'm done here.

 

[chebby]

A quick warning though, don't ever go into a pro audio shop or join a producers' forum and ask them what kind of HiFi quality USB cable do they recommend for use with your audio interface, or they'll laugh you out the place.

And miss a lucrative sale. David, on the other hand, would present them with something in a velvet lined teak box that was made by fairies (and buried beneath the stones at Avebury) for a year and make a small fortune for his employer.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

No, it's an absolutely relevant analogy, but your refusal to understand why doesn't make it less so.

To say it is an absolutely relevant (you do like your absolutes, don't you?) is like saying someone who can hit just one pinpoint accurate serve will inevitably win a five-set tennis match.

Sending a document to a printer (see also the old argument about different USB cables not changing the words in a dcument when transmitted) is a one-hit deal; sending audio in digital form is a real-time procedure over an extended time. To ignore that just because your printer works is pretty bizarre.

And that's before we even get into the effect of electrical noise getting through from source to receiving device to affect the sound of that device, or any possible effect interference on the USB cable's 12V power line might have (which is one reason some cables designed for audio don't carry the power line).

I'm with David and others in the 'try it and see whether it makes a difference' camp, not on your 'don't try it because it can't make a difference, and if you're stupid enough still to try it and think it does, you are self-deluding' tack.

I'm not standing up for the makers of exotic USB cables, just as I think ludicrous the suggestions I read that different Blu-ray players can affect motion handling or depth of field or whatever - all I'm saying is why not just let people try it for themselves rather than indulging in all this sanctimonious appendage-waving whenever the subject comes up?

Oh, and if you're going to say you're just here to save people from their own idiocy and the pernicious pressure they're under from retailers, advertisers and the evil press, don't bother: some of the greatest discoveries in history have come about by mistake, or by people being brave and inquisitive enough to say 'Yes, I know that's the received wisdom, but what if...?'

I completly agree with this statment and just to add. I think the analogy regarding the printer is completly flawed. so many things can effect the printers out come paper, CMYK/RGB setting, inks the list goes on! not to mention the printer stores (in part) the data till the job is done. There are many different factors that can determan the outcome. You have to compare apples to apples music is not just a simple file transfer of data like a printers plot code (well its not so simple these days but you get the point). But I can see in theory how an expensive USB cable could make a difference weather you hear is another thing entirly.... Sorry for bad grammer and spelling in advance the edit button has gone.

 

[Frank Harvey]

And miss a lucrative sale. David, on the other hand, would present them with something in a velvet lined teak box that was made by fairies (and buried beneath the stones at Avebury) for a year and make a small fortune for his employer.

Amazing! And we've never even met! With psychic powers like that, I hope you're exploiting it and making vast sums of money.

 

[Frank Harvey]

relation built on previous purchases. friendship that comes from wallet, a dealer kind of friendship.. a friendship that only last as long as your bank account allows...

friendly dealer - uber cynicism

Oh, so we're not allowed to be friendly now?! *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[ellisdj]

The great printer arugement - always makes me chuckle.

Chord company recently did demos of their usb and network cables I believe showing people in a demo scenario the differences of the cables

I have no idea of how it went or have any feedback from it - but its not a bad thing to look up out of curiosity. Its also a ballsy thing to do to a potential room full of "Printer Arguement" listeners - they would only do this with upmost confidence in differences

I tried a specific USB Cable (Not Chord) on a trial and return basis - it cost a Lot of money and its never going back !

2 ideas / educated guesses as to why there are differences - screening of the data lines to external influences - seperation and screening of the data / power lines inside the cable.

Screening and vibration isolation of the actual plug - only the best cables do this - the one I use

There is a specific USB plug with a patent approved to do similar to the above to improve SQ.

All these things are associated with analogue obviously - cant possibly affect digital - I am a fool to think it obviously, I appreciate this.

However I am very happy with the improvements made to my system and that is all that matter to me

 

[steve_1979]

...but some people just seem to love getting shafted. *lol*

 

[bigboss]

A quick warning though, don't ever go into a pro audio shop or join a producers' forum and ask them what kind of HiFi quality USB cable do they recommend for use with your audio interface, or they'll laugh you out the place.

And miss a lucrative sale.  David, on the other hand, would present them with something in a velvet lined teak box that was made by fairies (and buried beneath the stones at Avebury) for a year and make a small fortune for his employer.

Stop personal attacks by making baseless allegations chebby.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

The great printer arugement - always makes me chuckle.

Chord company recently did demos of their usb and network cables I believe showing people in a demo scenario the differences of the cables

I have no idea of how it went or have any feedback from it - but its not a bad thing to look up out of curiosity. Its also a ballsy thing to do to a potential room full of "Printer Arguement" listeners - they would only do this with upmost confidence in differences

I tried a specific USB Cable (Not Chord) on a trial and return basis - it cost a Lot of money and its never going back !

2 ideas / educated guesses as to why there are differences - screening of the data lines to external influences - seperation and screening of the data / power lines inside the cable.

Screening and vibration isolation of the actual plug - only the best cables do this - the one I use

There is a specific USB plug with a patent approved to do similar to the above to improve SQ.

All these things are associated with analogue obviously - cant possibly affect digital - I am a fool to think it obviously, I appreciate this.

However I am very happy with the improvements made to my system and that is all that matter to me

I think with USB cables any gains in sound quality must be down to the better build quality, i should think. More secure fit and tighter tolerances. Cables within layed out in a better order maybe......

I think a better a analogy would be cycle helmets. Is there a difference between a cheap one and expensive one. In regads to safty no there all tested to the same level. It just boils down to the materials. They all preform the same job but as you go up the in price the helemt start to produce the same resault more efficiently by using lighter more exotic materials like carbon. So it boils down to how much the customer wants to spend. Thats the best i come up with....

Printers hehe!!!

David your a lovely guy and i know you have been poked and push in this thread but your later comments have come across very, Hummm! inpolite lets say. Your better than that! don't rise to it.

 

[cheeseboy]

Chord company recently did demos of their usb and network cables I believe showing people in a demo scenario the differences of the cables

Ellis - this is only a comment on the chord company, nothing about what you have said, but chord have had their knuckles wrapped already by the ASA, so excuse me if I don't believe anything they say.

https://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2014/11/The-Chord-Company-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_274211.aspx#.VZENI0Zfik4

 

[Frank Harvey]

David your a lovely guy and i know you have been poked and push in this thread but your later comments have come across very, Hummm! inpolite lets say. Your better than that! don't rise to it.

Thanks. My comments are only intended to those few who seem to show a blanket hatred for dealers, and certainly those who seem to show a hatred towards myself, particularly when they've never even met me.

 

[John Duncan]

I'm not seeing much here to trouble the moderators, FYI.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

I'm not seeing much here to trouble the moderators, FYI.

Just your tipycal cable thread.....is all

 

[richardw42]

David.

I think people are just satiring the industry, you just happen to be the chosen representative on this thread. I certainly wouldnt take anything too personally, and Hatred is an incredibly strong word to use.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

David your a lovely guy and i know you have been poked and push in this thread but your later comments have come across very, Hummm! inpolite lets say. Your better than that! don't rise to it.

Thanks. My comments are only intended to those few who seem to show a blanket hatred for dealers, and certainly those who seem to show a hatred towards myself, particularly when they've never even met me.

I competly under stand. I just don't want you to hurt your reputation and good name by those who hate for the sake of it.

 

[chebby]

I'm not seeing much here to trouble the moderators, FYI.

Sorry.

I'll try to do better.