Upgrade time at last!

[chris_bates1974]

Simple question.... I'm going to upgrade my TT. I'll have £600. I'll be listening to some this weekend.

Recommendations?

 

[chris_bates1974]

OK, ideally needs to be new - although second-hand from a dealer would be ok. Do want it to come with a cart, as will likely upgrade later. Absolutely must have a dust cover. I would prefer belt driven - nothing that looks like it should be used by a dj.

I hope that helps! I've seen the advice you've given others Al, so looking forward to seeing what you've got to say on this,

Thanks!

 

[Al ears]

Simple question.... I'm going to upgrade my TT. I'll have £600. I'll be listening to some this weekend.

Recommendations?

Depends a lot on your requirements. What exactly do you need with it? Does it have to have an integrated dust cover etc. Do you have a cartridge to use with it or do you need a new one pre-fitted. Do you want to buy new to ensure warranty and dealer advantages?

Much more information required really before I could offer suitable suggestions.

NOTE: when auditioning turntables you are, more or less, simply listening to the tonearm / cartridge performance. Buy the best arm and cartridge setup you can afford and, if possible, get one without those cheap, entry level, cartridges pre-fitted.

Unfortunately, when you go to a dealer to audition, it is usually exactly this pre-fitted set-up they have which isn't helpful.

If you want to stick with Pro-ject I might suggest simply going for a Debut Carbon without cartridge and sticking a good (£250?) cartridge on that.

P.S.: Just noticed, do you need one with an inbuilt phono preamp?

 

[Al ears]

OK, ideally needs to be new - although second-hand from a dealer would be ok. Do want it to come with a cart, as will likely upgrade later. Absolutely must have a dust cover. I would prefer belt driven - nothing that looks like it should be used by a dj.

I hope that helps! I've seen the advice you've given others Al, so looking forward to seeing what you've got to say on this,

Thanks!

Your choice is going to be rather limited if you want one with a built-in phono preamp, unfortunately. It's perhaps better you put £100 or so aside and buy a Cambridge 651P phono preamp separately from RicherSounds as this would give you a much wider choice in turntables themselves.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Hi, I will need a phono stage... I hadn't thought about spending massively on the cartridge first up as opposed to spending a little more on the TT to start with... Funnily enough, the Debut Carbon is one I am booked to listen to this weekend, and I like the look of it. It does come with a 2M Red - which is what I have currently - I wasn't aware it could be bought either without, or with a different cartridge....

Wondering if anyone has compared the new Planar 2 with similar priced models from Pro-Ject?

 

[Al ears]

Hi, I will need a phono stage... I hadn't thought about spending massively on the cartridge first up as opposed to spending a little more on the TT to start with... Funnily enough, the Debut Carbon is one I am booked to listen to this weekend, and I like the look of it. It does come with a 2M Red - which is what I have currently - I wasn't aware it could be bought either without, or with a different cartridge....

Wondering if anyone has compared the new Planar 2 with similar priced models from Pro-Ject?

The problem with a lot of the newer decks today is they come as a package for simplicity. Some can be found without a cartridge but they are rare. Keep looking or have a quiet word with the dealer. If you already have a Red then anything with that cartridge pre fitted is hardly an upgrade, you'd be better off fitting a decent cartridge to the deck you already have. Remember, the turntable simply spins the disc at a fixed speed. ;-)

 

[chris_bates1974]

Ok, I may open a massive can of worms here... but, does that mean that you're saying I could have a £150 turntable, and a £1000 turntable, but putting a (for instance) £500 arm and cartridge combo on them would basically make them sounds as near as damn it the same?

This could turn out to be more complex thatn I had thought....

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I think if your sticking with the ortofon.....a 2m blue at least will give you a decent boost in Sq.......maybe a different way to go about this upgrade would be to buy a decent cart and phono stage followed by the turntable at a later date.I think this will give you more bang for your buck at the moment....If it was me I'd be going for a good used stage at around £400 and then a decent mm cart around the £200 mark.......if it was me! Then I'd save for the turntable.

 

[Al ears]

I think if your sticking with the ortofon.....a 2m blue at least will give you a decent boost in Sq.......maybe a different way to go about this upgrade would be to buy a decent cart and phono stage followed by the turntable at a later date.I think this will give you more bang for your buck at the moment....If it was me I'd be going for a good used stage at around £400 and then a decent mm cart around the £200 mark.......if it was me! Then I'd save for the turntable.

My thinking as well. The turntable itself is the last piece in the puzzle.

 

[nopiano]

Ok, I may open a massive can of worms here... but, does that mean that you're saying I could have a £150 turntable, and a £1000 turntable, but putting a (for instance) £500 arm and cartridge combo on them would basically make them sounds as near as damn it the same?

This could turn out to be more complex thatn I had thought....

Not quite literally... In a dealer, unless they have a superb listening room, the subtleties of a better TT might well go undetected. At home, you certainly would notice a difference in background noise, and maybe in speed stability.

 

[Al ears]

Ok, I may open a massive can of worms here... but, does that mean that you're saying I could have a £150 turntable, and a £1000 turntable, but putting a (for instance) £500 arm and cartridge combo on them would basically make them sounds as near as damn it the same?

This could turn out to be more complex thatn I had thought....

Not quite literally... In a dealer, unless they have a superb listening room, the subtleties of a better TT might well go undetected. At home, you certainly would notice a difference in background noise, and maybe in speed stability.

Again a good point from nopiano. I was referring to turntables that some would consider 'entry level' and spending £3-400 trying to upgrade the deck rarely makes a huge difference. Most people make the mistake of not buying a decent second- hand deck in the first place that will accept numerous tonearm/cartridge upgrades in the future and thus, in my opinion, end up losing a fair bit of money in future upgrading.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Thanks everyone... Seems like something around the 300 mark with around 200 on the cart might be the way to go? Or....

Would my current TT take a new arm? It might be that could be a way also, it seems....

Although, if I stick with the current TT, would using the onboard phono stage (which I would not know how to bypass) mean that I would always be limited?

I'm so confused!!!! But happily so....

 

[chris_bates1974]

Thanks everyone... Seems like something around the 300 mark with around 200 on the cart might be the way to go? Or....

Would my current TT take a new arm? It might be that could be a way also, it seems....

Although, if I stick with the current TT, would using the onboard phono stage (which I would not know how to bypass) mean that I would always be limited?

I'm so confused!!!! But happily so....

 

[Al ears]

Thanks everyone... Seems like something around the 300 mark with around 200 on the cart might be the way to go? Or....

Would my current TT take a new arm? It might be that could be a way also, it seems....

Although, if I stick with the current TT, would using the onboard phono stage (which I would not know how to bypass) mean that I would always be limited?

I'm so confused!!!! But happily so....

Do you have an instruction manual for that turntable? Most with phono preamps are switchable so you can bypass the phono section and use an external upgraded one.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Thanks everyone... Seems like something around the 300 mark with around 200 on the cart might be the way to go? Or....

Would my current TT take a new arm? It might be that could be a way also, it seems....

Although, if I stick with the current TT, would using the onboard phono stage (which I would not know how to bypass) mean that I would always be limited?

I'm so confused!!!! But happily so....

Do you have an instruction manual for that turntable? Most with phono preamps are switchable so you can bypass the phono section and use an external upgraded one.

I don't know, is the honest answer - I don't have a manual.... I have emailed Henley - I will wait and see what they say.

In all honesty, I'm intrigued at the thought of upgrading what I have...

 

[Al ears]

Thanks everyone... Seems like something around the 300 mark with around 200 on the cart might be the way to go? Or....

Would my current TT take a new arm? It might be that could be a way also, it seems....

Although, if I stick with the current TT, would using the onboard phono stage (which I would not know how to bypass) mean that I would always be limited?

I'm so confused!!!! But happily so....

Do you have an instruction manual for that turntable? Most with phono preamps are switchable so you can bypass the phono section and use an external upgraded one.

I don't know, is the honest answer - I don't have a manual.... I have emailed Henley - I will wait and see what they say.

In all honesty, I'm intrigued at the thought of upgrading what I have...

It's always possible to put an upgraded Pro-ject arm on that turntable and add a decent cartridge. However don't do this unless the inbuilt phono preamp can be bypassed.

Something like the Pro-ject 9cc arm with a decent cartridge and a Cambridge 651P might just be possible for your budget.

 

[GeoffreyW]

Or you could look for a recent Rega Planar 3 and fit a Nagaoka MP110 or, if money allows, an MP200 cartridge, either combination should see you sorted for some time, together with a CA 640 or 651 phono stage.

 

[chris_bates1974]

So, I'll be auditioning today, and looking at the difference - if any - between the Rega and Project sounds as one of these is probably the way I'll go.

ive also worked out a slight delay will give me an extra bit of cash to play with.... So, current thinking is something like the new planar 1, Rega Fono Mk II, and a clearaudio performer.

This on the basis that the consensus seems to be that the cartridge is the key piece.... Thoughts?

ill report back on the audition later!

 

[nopiano]

If that Clearaudio cartridge is the one at £275, then I think you need a better TT than a Planar 1.

Anyway, see what the dealer says, and you hear.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Well, I've been in for a listen. Hifix very kindly got as close to my system as they could with current kit, so Cyrus amplification and KEF speakers were set up when I arrived, with the Planar 2 set up and ready to go, phono amp duties handled by Rega mini Fono.

I was initially impressed, but as I listened more, I started to feel the limitations of the cartridge. It was perfectly nice, but ultimately I felt not quite as detailed as what I have already.

Next the TT was swapped out for the Debut Carbon... Wow! the difference was immediate, and the step up in cart instantly noticeable. There was more "there" and the sound was just superb.

I then asked if the Rega Fono MkII could be added in, and nothing was too much trouble! Once again, there was a step change in performance, with the Rega seemingly exerting some kind of extra grip on everything. I've never heard bass as crisp!

Credit where it is due, Hifix certainly looked after me, with a couple of coffees being more than welcome after what had already been a long day.

The upshot is that I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for the Debut Carbon and Fono combination. I like the sound of the Ortofon cart (I already have one) and the rest of the pieces fit together beautifully. I'm not sure I could do much better for less than a grand. And I know where I'll be buying them.... I guess I'll spend the rest on records!!!!!

 

[nopiano]

Well, I've been in for a listen. Hifix very kindly got as close to my system as they could with current kit, so Cyrus amplification and KEF speakers were set up when I arrived, with the Planar 2 set up and ready to go, phono amp duties handled by Rega mini Fono.

I was initially impressed, but as I listened more, I started to feel the limitations of the cartridge. It was perfectly nice, but ultimately I felt not quite as detailed as what I have already.

Next the TT was swapped out for the Debut Carbon... Wow! the difference was immediate, and the step up in cart instantly noticeable. There was more "there" and the sound was just superb.

I then asked if the Rega Fono MkII could be added in, and nothing was too much trouble! Once again, there was a step change in performance, with the Rega seemingly exerting some kind of extra grip on everything. I've never heard bass as crisp!

Credit where it is due, Hifix certainly looked after me, with a couple of coffees being more than welcome after what had already been a long day.

The upshot is that I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for the Debut Carbon and Fono combination. I like the sound of the Ortofon cart (I already have one) and the rest of the pieces fit together beautifully. I'm not sure I could do much better for less than a grand. And I know where I'll be buying them.... I guess I'll spend the rest on records!!!!!

Sounds promising, and glad to read that you got great service. If only more folks would take the trouble to audition properly.

I have got a Rega fono mini, the earlier model, and my supplying dealer said it would cost around £500 to better it. I'm delighted with it.

 

[chris_bates1974]

I liked the Fono mini, and to be fair, it was probably let down a little by the Rega Carbon cart fitted to the Planar 2. For me, the overall package of Fono MkII with the Debut Carbon and 2M Red gave me what I was looking for....

The only problem now is that it's about 6 weeks until I can buy them!!!!

 

[nopiano]

I liked the Fono mini, and to be fair, it was probably let down a little by the Rega Carbon cart fitted to the Planar 2. For me, the overall package of Fono MkII with the Debut Carbon and 2M Red gave me what I was looking for....

The only problem now is that it's about 6 weeks until I can buy them!!!!

And the Red can be upgraded to a Blue with just a stylus change; see if the dealer can do you a deal if you can afford it. (You doubtless realise they are imported by the same company).

 

[Freddy58]

I liked the Fono mini, and to be fair, it was probably let down a little by the Rega Carbon cart fitted to the Planar 2. For me, the overall package of Fono MkII with the Debut Carbon and 2M Red gave me what I was looking for....

The only problem now is that it's about 6 weeks until I can buy them!!!!

A pity you weren't able to listen to the RP2 with a decent cartridge.

 

[Al ears]

I liked the Fono mini, and to be fair, it was probably let down a little by the Rega Carbon cart fitted to the Planar 2. For me, the overall package of Fono MkII with the Debut Carbon and 2M Red gave me what I was looking for....

The only problem now is that it's about 6 weeks until I can buy them!!!!

A pity you weren't able to listen to the RP2 with a decent cartridge.

As I've stated recently, dealers care reluctant to demo anything that doesn't come as a package and, unfortunately, these cheaper decks always come fitted with basic cartridges.