Audio Technica AT-VM95

[Oxfordian]

In my ongoing search for my new TT one of the stores that is putting a proposal together for me has suggested that I go with an AT-VM95ML or SH cartridge as they reckon these to be one of HiFi's absolute bargains in the bang for bucks stakes and outshine many a more expensive cartridge.

Now I have no knowledge of AT cartridges so I wonder if anyone has experience of these cartridges and what are their thoughts on the range and more specifically the models that I have indicated?

Just as a bit of background the budget for my last ever TT is around £3500, the one with the AT cart is just over that figure, I wonder if a less expensive cart is being included to keep the overall cost close to my budget. The other way of looking at it is that I could always upgrade the cartridge at a later date and invest my money on the main TT and associated components.

All feedback welcome and gratefully received.

 

[nads]

Hang on here.

is my google fu given up on me?

a £150 cartridge on a £3500 turntable?

 

[Revolutions]

Surely at that price the tt is specced for MC cartridge?

AT VM95ML certainly is a good cartridge. The only equivalent I can compare is the Rega Exact. The AT is somewhat more direct & aggressive. I think the Exact is more delicate & gentle. It also sounds more detailed to me, but fairly sure other things are at play there.

 

[DougK1]

I wouldn't say MC is a must but surely a better quality MM should be. As Nad's says - a £150 cart on a £3.5K turntable sounds a bit mean to me. Are you sure this shop is your friend?

Get the Marantz deck at least you get a very decent bundled cart with that

 

[nads]

Right here is a 3200 turntable and the recommended carts are £1-3000 not £1-300

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even my 1kish turntable came with a £400 cartridge.

 

[Oxfordian]

Hang on here.

is my google fu given up on me?

a £150 cartridge on a £3500 turntable?

That’s my point, am I being fobbed off with an inferior cartridge?

Its a point that has nagged at me since our conversation began, my gut feeling is that I should be asking for at least a low output MC (a Hana EL or SL as examples), I am sure that there are other carts that others can suggest.

 

[Oxfordian]

I wouldn't say MC is a must but surely a better quality MM should be. As Nad's says - a £150 cart on a £3.5K turntable sounds a bit mean to me. Are you sure this shop is your friend?

Get the Marantz deck at least you get a very decent bundled cart with that

I think I’m getting sold a story, if the right cart is going to take me above budget then just tell me, at least then it’s my decision if I want to go over.

 

[DougK1]

I think I’m getting sold a story, if the right cart is going to take me above budget then just tell me, at least then it’s my decision if I want to go over.

Have a look at the bundled carts supplied with decks around your price point as that will indicate if you're getting sold short on the cart front.

 

[Oxfordian]

Have a look at the bundled carts supplied with decks around your price point as that will indicate if you're getting sold short on the cart front.

Good idea, I will do that, thanks.

 

[nads]

What phono stage will you be using? And the rest of the kit?

and then how much vinyl do you have? And will you be adding to it regularly?

Have you got a good cleaning system yet? As new discs still need a clean.

I would not be looking at using that cart.

 

[DougK1]

Have a look at the bundled carts supplied with decks around your price point as that will indicate if you're getting sold short on the cart front.

Just an example: Project X8 @ £2100, fitted with Quintet Blue @ £450.

 

[daytona600]

VM95 essentially a AT95 in a new party frock which sold millions & a cracking budget cartridge. Shiny new £3500 TT would of thought 20/40% of your budget of a Cartridge
£500-1500 would be ideal & same on a Phono Stage

 

[Oxfordian]

Just an example: Project X8 @ £2100, fitted with Quintet Blue @ £450.

Good point it’s big brother is on my list to audition.

 

[Oxfordian]

VM95 essentially a AT95 in a new party frock which sold millions & a cracking budget cartridge. Shiny new £3500 TT would of thought 20/40% of your budget of a Cartridge
£500-1500 would be ideal & same on a Phono Stage

I am definitely getting the feeling that this particular TT is outside of my budget, just wish the store had been upfront and said so.

 

[Oxfordian]

What phono stage will you be using? And the rest of the kit?

At present a Lehmann Black Cube - I am aware that this may not be suitable and have put funds aside to upgrade if necessary, it is a MM/MC phono stage.

and then how much vinyl do you have? And will you be adding to it regularly?

Approx 350 and will get more in the weeks and months ahead, new and pre-loved.

Have you got a good cleaning system yet? As new discs still need a clean.

A Project VC-S3 and Knosti

I would not be looking at using that cart.

Neither will I, waiting for a response to my e-mail I sent last night.

 

[nopiano]

I am definitely getting the feeling that this particular TT is outside of my budget, just wish the store had been upfront and said so.

If you’ve stated a ceiling budget then I think getting the best ‘table you can makes a lot of sense. Cartridges are pretty easy to upgrade, and save for, relatively speaking.

The biggest selling Linn cartridge ever was based on the previous AT95 generation, which Linn badged K9 and K18. They still sell their LP12 Majik complete bundle with a tweaked Goldring 1012gx they call the Adikt. The Goldring is about £275 retail; the Linn version is over £600. That makes it look better, maybe? The complete Majik turntable with arm and cartridge is £3700, so it’s relevant here.

You’ll see from my signature I currently use the AT VM95ML (and I’ve had low-output moving coils in the past, from Goldring and Denon, on a Linn back then). I can assure you it’s very good, quite beyond what you might imagine from its typical price. I think your dealer is giving good advice, based on my experience.

What turntable are you looking at, as we seem to be missing that?

 

[nads]

At present a Lehmann Black Cube - I am aware that this may not be suitable and have put funds aside to upgrade if necessary, it is a MM/MC phono stage.

Approx 350 and will get more in the weeks and months ahead, new and pre-loved.

A Project VC-S3 and Knosti

Neither will I, waiting for a response to my e-mail I sent last night.

Ok similar size collection for when I bought my good turntable back in 2007ish. Now closer to 500.

i would have a good look at the Project turntable/cartridge bundles to give a good overview of value and cost of parts.
the cost indication above is great.

just looked at the Black cube. Don’t see anything wrong with that.

 

[DougK1]

Guess Nopiano does have a point. If your store are trying to put together a dream deck for you at a certain price point then the cart would be the first place to economise. It could be sufficient to get you started on your next journey.

 

[Oxfordian]

Ok similar size collection for when I bought my good turntable back in 2007ish. Now closer to 500.

i would have a good look at the Project turntable/cartridge bundles to give a good overview of value and cost of parts.
the cost indication above is great.

just looked at the Black cube. Don’t see anything wrong with that.

Good news on the Black Cube, to be honest I am impressed with it as a MM stage, not used it with a MC cartridge.

 

[Oxfordian]

If you’ve stated a ceiling budget then I think getting the best ‘table you can makes a lot of sense. Cartridges are pretty easy to upgrade, and save for, relatively speaking.

The biggest selling Linn cartridge ever was based on the previous AT95 generation, which Linn badged K9 and K18. They still sell their LP12 Majik complete bundle with a tweaked Goldring 1012gx they call the Adikt. The Goldring is about £275 retail; the Linn version is over £600. That makes it look better, maybe? The complete Majik turntable with arm and cartridge is £3700, so it’s relevant here.

You’ll see from my signature I currently use the AT VM95ML (and I’ve had low-output moving coils in the past, from Goldring and Denon, on a Linn back then). I can assure you it’s very good, quite beyond what you might imagine from its typical price. I think your dealer is giving good advice, based on my experience.

What turntable are you looking at, as we seem to be missing that?

Valid points, I understand that I could upgrade the cartridge at a later date and that is an option, my frustration is that the AT was blown up as a bit of a giant killer which is in my eyes is the wrong way to go about things.

Didn't know about Linn and their cartridges, that's enlightening although I suppose not surprising as cartridges are a bit specialised.

When I think about cartridges it is usually the first thing we upgrade, so getting up and running with the AT wouldn't be the end of the world but might push me to upgrading sooner than I would have liked.

As for the TT, well I've been deliberately vague on that, no reason other than I wanted to focus on the cartridge and not turn it into a you should get .......... thread. I am spinning a number of platters which are a mix of new, new/pre-loved, completely pre-loved.

I like the idea of brands offering a TT package, happy to put a deck/arm/cart combo together on brands website for them to build, but I also like the idea of having something a bit exotic either a mix of new and pre-loved parts or a completely pre loved set-up. This is my last turntable so I am in no rush to spend the money I want to be completely certain that want ends up on my HiFi rack is there because it is the one I want.

Overall I realise that I am not going to get everything that I want for the budget I have, it is just working out where any compromise can be made. On that basis I am erring towards getting the deck and arm right and maybe look at upgrading cartridge and possibly phono stage at a later date. That's where I am today, tomorrow it may be different.

 

[Al ears]

That’s my point, am I being fobbed off with an inferior cartridge?

Its a point that has nagged at me since our conversation began, my gut feeling is that I should be asking for at least a low output MC (a Hana EL or SL as examples), I am sure that there are other carts that others can suggest.

The reason most decks do not come with a MC cartridge, especially low output, is most people will not have a phono preamp capable of utilizing said cartridge.
That said, until you spend over £500 on one , they aren't worth buying anyway when you can get an as good MM cartridge for the same budget.
I do feel a deck of that price needs a cartridge that costs a bit more than £150. It appears to be there only to create a "package"

 

[Gray]

I can fully understand the power of the price.
It's only natural, based on cost, to say "You must be mad to consider putting cart x on TT y"

How about the possibility, not that cartridge is too cheap for the TT (because £150 is not cheap).....but that the TT might just be overpriced?

I own a VM95E after years with the AT95E.
It was the latter that was part of some blind testing that a couple of us did.

All I can say is that, before buying anything 'better' than a VM95ML (regardless of how much closer its price gets to that of any TT), I would need to have a good listen - preferably blind....because I've found blind testing of carts (and phono stages) to be an education.
Suffice to say, you'll never hear me basing judgements on price alone.

It's no coincidence that AT95 was a best seller for decades.....not just because it was cheap, although that helps of course.

 

[Oxfordian]

The reason most decks do not come with a MC cartridge, especially low output, is most people will not have a phono preamp capable of utilizing said cartridge.
That said, until you spend over £500 on one , they aren't worth buying anyway when you can get an as good MM cartridge for the same budget.
I do feel a deck of that price needs a cartridge that costs a bit more than £150. It appears to be there only to create a "package"

I can confirm that the AT is there simply because anything else would have taken them over the budget I set.

The store has confirmed that they believe that either of the mentioned cartridges would get me up and running and perform well, but they equally recognised that telling me why the AT was spec'd and making me aware that in their opinion the cartridge could/should be upgraded when funds allowed would have been more sensible.

At least that has clarified the situation.

 

[Oxfordian]

From the response from the shop it is clear now that the VM95 is there to fit the budget with the deck and arm having the lions share of the money.

Feedback from the forum on the AT cartridge has been positive so if I go down this route I know that I have a reasonable cartridge on the end of the tonearm, whether I upgrade (more likely what do I upgrade to) is a decision I can make at a later date.

Thanks everyone for your input, it has been gratefully received.

 

[Al ears]

I can confirm that the AT is there simply because anything else would have taken them over the budget I set.

The store has confirmed that they believe that either of the mentioned cartridges would get me up and running and perform well, but they equally recognised that telling me why the AT was spec'd and making me aware that in their opinion the cartridge could/should be upgraded when funds allowed would have been more sensible.

At least that has clarified the situation.

Are you after one particular model of turntable and does it have to be new?
Apologies if you have already stated this....
This is why the old days were the best when turntables didn't come with a prefitted cartridge. Now you are simply paying extra for a ' get you going cartridge ' which is essentially money down the drain.
With dealers, as always, it is worth haggling. If you 're spending this much money the difference between a £150 cartridge and a £350 cartridge shouldn't bother them too much knowing their usual mark-up.
Perhaps one of our dealer forum members might be along soon to correct me...