Upgrade amplifier or speakers?

[lindsayt]

Fenner, I've got a lot of respect for what you say about hi-fi and in the way you've gone about building your system.

You've gotten yourself a good system that's been right for you by trying a few different things. You're also highly realistic about the compromises / limitations of your system. You've also got a very open mind when it comes to what you should try next to get an overall improvement to your system.

At this moment in time, what are your instincts telling you is the best change that you can make to your system now? IE what single component or combination of components do you think will have the best chance of taking your system to where you want it to be?

 

[bluedroog]

Fatiguing at higher volumes, not enough grip on the bass... Sounds like the amp is struggling to get the job properly done. Maybe you would be better off with a good stereo amp driving your Quads after all.

Remember: 'all amps sound the same in their comfort zone'. Smells like your amp is outside that zone from time to time...

Then again, if you paired the Denon with more efficient, amp-friendlier speakers, that might work well too.

Well, that didn't help you any further, did it? *nea*

I agree in principle, that is to say clearly the amp isn't controlling the speakers to their ability but given the budget / wants / current speakers I'd still suggest changing both the amp and speakers. Forget the current amp, it isn't up to it but I also think getting the best out of his current speakers wouldn't satisfy OP, with that in mind I'd suggest going active (not the only route by any means but possibly the best bang for buck in this budget range) and the Event Opals (or Adam, Genelec, Focal) would be the ideal search area. Just need to add a DAC and the system will be a massive upgrade. I'd suggest budgeting for decent speaker stands too.

 

[Sorreltiger]

I also own the Quad 21L2 speakers - part of a Yamaha 3800 AV set-up, but was dissatisfied with stereo sound. I added a Leema Pulse via pre-outs: it drove the front pair for TV and movies and worked on its own for music. This was a huge improvement, great with excellent recordings, but the sound was rather harsh with some rock discs. This prompted me to try the excellent Primare A30.1, which I bought second-hand - there are some superb bargains around. The sound became much more powerful and mellow, but still revealing - a significant change. Conclusion - avoid 'bright' amps with the Quad speakers. My final tweak was to try connecting my Quad Lite sub to the Primare for music and this has been so successful that I've more or less overcome the itch to change the speakers. I have to plug in the leads to the amp each time (the sub has two sets of inputs) and I change the crossover to 85Hz, but the couple of minutes that takes is well worth the trouble.

 

[DocG]

Fatiguing at higher volumes, not enough grip on the bass... Sounds like the amp is struggling to get the job properly done. Maybe you would be better off with a good stereo amp driving your Quads after all.

Remember: 'all amps sound the same in their comfort zone'. Smells like your amp is outside that zone from time to time...

Then again, if you paired the Denon with more efficient, amp-friendlier speakers, that might work well too.

Well, that didn't help you any further, did it? *nea*

Surely not. Must be the Blueray player. *wink*

On second thought... I think the butler did it!*crazy*

 

[DocG]

I agree in principle, that is to say clearly the amp isn't controlling the speakers to their ability but given the budget / wants / current speakers I'd still suggest changing both the amp and speakers. Forget the current amp, it isn't up to it but I also think getting the best out of his current speakers wouldn't satisfy OP, with that in mind I'd suggest going active (not the only route by any means but possibly the best bang for buck in this budget range) and the Event Opals (or Adam, Genelec, Focal) would be the ideal search area. Just need to add a DAC and the system will be a massive upgrade. I'd suggest budgeting for decent speaker stands too.

Yes, a pair of active speakers is a valid alternative. Definitely. The OP should decide for himself if the Opals' industrial look fits in his living/listening room. If not, there are 'more conventional' alternatives, like the Adams you mention, or the Xeos, or maybe AVI (never heard those myself).

 

[Al ears]

Fatiguing at higher volumes, not enough grip on the bass... Sounds like the amp is struggling to get the job properly done. Maybe you would be better off with a good stereo amp driving your Quads after all.

Remember: 'all amps sound the same in their comfort zone'. Smells like your amp is outside that zone from time to time...

Then again, if you paired the Denon with more efficient, amp-friendlier speakers, that might work well too.

Well, that didn't help you any further, did it? *nea*

Surely not. Must be the Blueray player. *wink*

On second thought... I think the butler did it!*crazy*

With the lead piping! .................. sorry bit of a flashback to some cable thread there.

 

[FennerMachine]

Thanks to everyone for their input. There are several routes I can take.

Whatever speakers I end up with, Quad 21L2 or another pair in the future, my amplifier will likely be insufficient.

Therefore I believe an amplifier upgrade is required regardless of what else I change.

I would like to get the Icon Audio ST40 but I know valve amps need a bit of TLC. Also, it might limit my options for speaker upgrades. I'm going to demo a few solid state amplifiers tomorrow, including the Yamaha A-S2100. I'll take my 751BD to compare to a CD player or two also. They are local so easy to set up a home demo once I've narrowed down a few options. I will not rule out anything just yet.

I'm in no rush, so I will take my time to decide, including home demo's of amps/speakers/CD player.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Get the most powerful or sophisticated amp you can.

Hegel 160 - 150wpc, a smidgen over 2grand could do the job.

Only heard it at the Bristol show on LS50's.

Hi Thompsonuxb

The best sound i've heard from LS50's

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[FennerMachine]

Demoed 3 amps today. Took my Cambridge Audio 751BD.

Amps – Yamaha A-S2100, Marantz PM-14S1 and I think Melody Stream (used to test if I could hear a difference between a cheap and high end end amp from the same manufacturer). Used Dali Rubicon 5 speakers.

The Yamaha was good, some will like it, but Marantz was better for me.

The overall sound was similar but the Marantz PM had a better sound stage and was a bit more natural/realistic.

Melody Stream was good, especially considering the cost, but not good enough for the speakers being used. This was evident in the higher frequencies. The PM14S1 handled high frequencies much better. I think the Melody Stream just didn't have the power to control the speakers properly.

Just a point of note, this is the second Hi-Fi dealer that has suggested that the Quad speakers need better amps to drive them properly. These said they need better amps, another said my current amp is the weak link in my system. Both stock or have stocked Quad speakers from the same range as mine.

I'm going to do more demo's over the next few weeks. Once I've narrowed down what to change I'll get home demo's. I've found somewhere that has Quad, Dali, Tannoy and Spendor speakers plus Icon Audio amps. I can do some nice comparisons there!

 

[FennerMachine]

Quick question – Marantz PM8005 vs PM-14S1

What difference in performance at normal listening levels?

 

[FennerMachine]

Well, as suggested by Thompsonuxb I've tried the Denon doing the decoding using a coaxial cable from 751BD, but for an extended period this time.

So far subtle but noticeable and good improvement.

Many issues seem to have been solved.

Bass is a bit better – quantity and control.

Mids or highs – not sure which, notice most during panpipes and singers when hitting higher notes, do not sound 'compressed' as they did before.

Some of the harshness/edginess has gone.

As it currently stands, I might be happy with what I have now.

I will still get a home demo of Marantz PM8005, but I now think it could be the interaction of the 751BD and the amps causing some of the issues. Some amps work well with it, some don't, but the overall sound from my Quad 21L2 speakers is similar when the source/amp combo work well together.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Stick at it - play with the settings.

If you can adjust speaker levels in the menu of your amp experiment - trimming the levels slightly may help with the harshness.