Turnable Confusion - MC/MM and recommendations

[Paulq]

I am seriously considering buying a TT for the first time in many years and am confused about what to buy and what I need - so am hoping someone can help please.

The plan is that I will probably want to run the TT through my Linn Akurate Streamer and directly into a pair of active speakers. In saying that I am confused about phono stages and, as a result, the type of TTs open to me. The Linn info I have states that the Akurate has:
ANALOGUE INPUTS (RCA, phono/line level) - To connect a turntable or line level source with unbalanced (RCA) outputs.12 (Default MC phono)PHONO GROUND - To connect to a turntable grounding terminal.
So - does this mean I need to buy a TT with a Moving Coil type cartridge? I am assuming that if this is the case it will just be a case of Plug and Play but that MM TT's will need my Akurate to be modified?

If that is correct any recommendations as to a TT that is quality? Ideally I would like a Rega but they all appear to be MM design?

Apologies for the basic questions - been many years since I had one.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Al ears]

I am seriously considering buying a TT for the first time in many years and am confused about what to buy and what I need - so am hoping someone can help please.

The plan is that I will probably want to run the TT through my Linn Akurate Streamer and directly into a pair of active speakers. In saying that I am confused about phono stages and, as a result, the type of TTs open to me. The Linn info I have states that the Akurate has:
[*]ANALOGUE INPUTS (RCA, phono/line level) - To connect a turntable or line level source with unbalanced (RCA) outputs.12 (Default MC phono)[*]PHONO GROUND - To connect to a turntable grounding terminal.
So - does this mean I need to buy a TT with a Moving Coil type cartridge? I am assuming that if this is the case it will just be a case of Plug and Play but that MM TT's will need my Akurate to be modified?

If that is correct any recommendations as to a TT that is quality? Ideally I would like a Rega but they all appear to be MM design?

Apologies for the basic questions - been many years since I had one.

Thanks in advance.

Not a problem but as I don't know much about the Akurate I would suggest you double check with Linn whether or not it has a phono preamp fitted. Turntables don't normally output line level unless you buy a turntable that has itself got a phono preamp attached.

Best stick with moving magnet cartridges unless you intend to spend a large amount.

Edit: Just seen it does have preamp built in probably suitable for the high output moving coils or moving magnet

I'd still stick to a moving magnet cartridge.

 

[good_enough]

Really it's about level of output of the cartridge, with MC tending to output lower voltages (except for the high output moving coil - Dynavector 10X5, denon DL110, Hana SH are examples). MM with higher outputs will flood your MC input.

Turntables are neither MM nor MC. That would only apply to the cartridge fitted to the turntable. You should be able to fit either sort of cartridge to any good turntable, - there's plenty of advice out there as to 'will the Nagaoka spliddly splodge suit my Rega arjemy flop' type so Google is your friend. In any case, the fitted cartridge may not be exactly brilliant as they may be fitting to a budget.

Decent MCs would tend to be starting at around the 500-600 mark, except for the Denon DL103 (low output) or Denon DL110 (high output) which are amazing bang-for-buck carts. If you're buying a new turntable you might ask for it to be fitted with a DL103 to match your MC input instead of its standard MM, and see how you get on. It's likely to be way better than any defaullt fitted Ortofon anyway.

Alternative might be to accept the default MM, get a phone stage suitable tor plugging into you line level input.

 

[Paulq]

Thanks to both for replying - you have confirmed and clarified what I had understood in that it's the cartridge which determines MC/MM and not the TT itself but apologies if I dodn't put that across very well in my original post.

It appears that the Linn Akurate is preconfigured to MC though this can be changed (dealer input - this is Linn after all) to MM. I plan to keep things simple if I am honest so, again if I have understood you correctly, then I could buy something like the Rega Planar 3 but stipulate at point of purchase that I want a MC cartridge rather than the Elys MM which seems to everyone's favourite? Having done so it should 'just work' with the Akurate - correct?

If there are other recommendations at around the 5 - 600 pounds mark I am happy to take them. I do crave an LP12 but suspect that may be out of reach at the moment.

Thanks again - I am actually quite excited about hearing and buying vinyl again. It must be well over 25 years since I did so.

 

[Paulq]

Alternative might be to accept the default MM, get a phone stage suitable tor plugging into you line level input.

Would you mind explaining that a bit more for me please? As I understand from the Linn stuff here:

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Akurate_DSM_(Exakt_Variant)

inputs 6 are denoted for the phono stage AND line level. Given that the phono stage is configured for MC by default how do I determine which of these inputs are the correct ones to use if I bought a separate MM Phono Stage?

Input 7 relates to 'Earth Ground' - would i also need to use this?

Again, really sorry for the elementary questions but once I understand I'll go away.....

 

[Al ears]

Alternative might be to accept the default MM, get a phone stage suitable tor plugging into you line level input.

Would you mind explaining that a bit more for me please? As I understand from the Linn stuff here:

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Akurate_DSM_(Exakt_Variant)

inputs 6 are denoted for the phono stage AND line level. Given that the phono stage is configured for MC by default how do I determine which of these inputs are the correct ones to use if I bought a separate MM Phono Stage?

Input 7 relates to 'Earth Ground' - would i also need to use this?

Again, really sorry for the elementary questions but once I understand I'll go away.....

Without the manual I would guess the Linn amplifies the normal MC output levels line level and it would be these sockets that you would connect the turntable to.

The ground is there for connecting the earth lead from the turntables tonearm, if it has one.

It may be worth your while getting the dealer to modify it to take Moving Magnet cartridges as this will give you more choice in the cartridge you can fit and also give you the opportunity to simply buy a new stylus for that cartridge when the time comes whereas with most Moving Coils you'll have to buy the whole cartridge again.

 

[good_enough]

OK so the MC/line level is as follows:

A phono stage does two things. it applies an equalization (levelling up) of the input to boost up the bass - this is called RIAA equalization. Then it amps the whole stuff up the voltage to a level called 'line' (3.5 to 5V).

Hence a MC cartridge phono stage will take the output of the MC cartridge (0.25 to 0.3 or so), apply RIAA equalization (boost the bass) and amplify to 4V-ish so that your amp can take things further. A MM phone stage will take the input from a MM catridge at 3V to 4V or so, and appliy RIAA equalization, and chuck out the 3 to 4V your line input expects (ie what a CD player would chuck out).

The numbers either side of the 'to' above are about where you have to turn the dial on your amp to get a specific listening volume.

Unfiortunately from there on you're on your own - as I say for a MC cart the DL103 is £ for £ the heavyweight champ of the world. But you're going to have to get your feet dirty and listen to some stuff! Maybe you should as a first point, talk to your dealer and get a starting point that you listen to for the next year or so, and move on from there.

Here's my experience: it ain't quantitative, it's qualitative, I love where my system is at now, you might hate it. Carts really do make a hell of a difference.

Yeah that's frustrating.But there are affordable step-ups in both MCs and MMs. Given a MC amp I'd buy a TT with a DL103 and start that odyssey in vinyl. But that is strictly a personal opinion!

 

[Al ears]

OK so the MC/line level is as follows:

A phono stage does two things. it applies an equalization (levelling up) of the input to boost up the bass - this is called RIAA equalization. Then it amps the whole stuff up the voltage to a level called 'line' (3.5 to 5V).

Hence a MC cartridge phono stage will take the output of the MC cartridge (0.25 to 0.3 or so), apply RIAA equalization (boost the bass) and amplify to 4V-ish so that your amp can take things further. A MM phone stage will take the input from a MM catridge at 3V to 4V or so, and appliy RIAA equalization, and chuck out the 3 to 4V your line input expects (ie what a CD player would chuck out).

The numbers either side of the 'to' above are about where you have to turn the dial on your amp to get a specific listening volume.

Unfiortunately from there on you're on your own - as I say for a MC cart the DL103 is £ for £ the heavyweight champ of the world. But you're going to have to get your feet dirty and listen to some stuff! Maybe you should as a first point, talk to your dealer and get a starting point that you listen to for the next year or so, and move on from there.

Here's my experience: it ain't quantitative, it's qualitative, I love where my system is at now, you might hate it. Carts really do make a hell of a difference.

Yeah that's frustrating.But there are affordable step-ups in both MCs and MMs. Given a MC amp I'd buy a TT with a DL103 and start that odyssey in vinyl. But that is strictly a personal opinion!

There's worse places to start. The DL103R is significantly better than the bog-standard 103.

Always bear in mind most MC s of decent quality will require a step-up device of some kind and nearly all, when worn out or damaged, will require you to buy a complete new cartridge not just a replacement stylus.

P.S.: I haven't yet heard a high output moving coil that would make me want to buy it over a similarly priced moving magnet / iron

 

[Paulq]

Just to close the loop and say thanks I had a good look and listen around today culminating with a trip to and a brew with my regular dealer.

I have ordered a Rega Planar 3 with Elys cartridge and I feel that's a pretty good place to start.....and possibly end. Looks like a really decent piece of gear and sounded great. I decided to change my kit around a bit, somewhat craftily, so that I have actually ended up with 3 systems almost by accident. That's what I told her anyway.....

I am going to use the Linn Majik DSM with the Rega as a dedicated 'second' system and am likely to get hold of a Yamaha R-N402D which will replace the Majik DSM in handling TV/Sky/DVD duties. I am actually quite excited about the Yamaha as well - I have read good things about their gear and it appears to be quite high quality for relatively little cost.

Anyhow, I digress. The Rega is coming next week, vinyl has already been retrieved from the attic. Now all I need (and can't afford) is an Okki Nokki......

Thanks for the help.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Hope you enjoy your new toy!

I'm not convinced you can do much better than a Rega deck at that kind of money. My first ever TT (bought in 1992) was a Planar 3, and I've got one now....

If you do decide to go down the cartridge upgrade route, there are some around here who are full of good advice - it's notoriously difficult to find any dealer who'll let you listen to many!

 

[Paulq]

Well, it arrived today and after a bit of mucking around setting it all up (it didn't quite fit where I intended it to....) I was up and running in no time. I dug some old LP's out of the attic and the sheer joy of seeing the old Atlantic, Chrysalis and SwanSong labels spinning around was something else - I haven't stopped smiling.

When I abandoned vinyl some years ago and went down the CD/digital route I was convinced that it would yield a sound improvement. Listening to just a few LP's this afternoon I am amazed at the sound quality generated from vinyl - I can definitely hear a difference in every respect. I feel like I have met an old friend....and he's never really been away.

More records to play......

 

[Al ears]

Well, it arrived today and after a bit of mucking around setting it all up (it didn't quite fit where I intended it to....) I was up and running in no time. I dug some old LP's out of the attic and the sheer joy of seeing the old Atlantic, Chrysalis and SwanSong labels spinning around was something else - I haven't stopped smiling.

When I abandoned vinyl some years ago and went down the CD/digital route I was convinced that it would yield a sound improvement. Listening to just a few LP's this afternoon I am amazed at the sound quality generated from vinyl - I can definitely hear a difference in every respect. I feel like I have met an old friend....and he's never really been away.

More records to play......

Great, enjoy!

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Excellent Paul, enjoy. There is something about vinyl that is hard to explain, it can sound dire with poor recordings but fed with mint vinyl and exc recordings it beats digital formats every time. Closest digital would be SACD.

 

[priam]

The upgrade paths for the Planar 3 is quite simple really. Find an PSU that you like and stick it on.
I'd also change the mat on the platter.
Because of the Planar's 3 unique spindle length, if you want a clamp search Mitchell Engineering for the Rega clamps.

 

[Paulq]

The upgrade paths for the Planar 3 is quite simple really. Find an PSU that you like and stick it on. I'd also change the mat on the platter. Because of the Planar's 3 unique spindle length, if you want a clamp search Mitchell Engineering for the Rega clamps.

To be honest I have zero desire to upgrade it and am just happy with what it is. I'm dangerous with that word.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Sorry for the interruption... what difference would a PSU actually make to the sound form my Planar 3?

Im not too knowledgeable on these things! And is there one in particular that is recommended?

Cheers...

 

[priam]

Rega has its own PSU for sale. I haven't tried it yet. Basically it's an external power supply which is supposed to make your belt drive that bit more stable.

But crucially it allows you to change from 33 to 45 without having to touch the belt, which would certainly be convenient if the belt is beneath the platter. It also reduces noise.

Some enthusiasts have a psu for their psu, you'd need someone better than me to explain that.

Forgot to mention the white belt upgrade, although I'm a bit cynical of it.