Tube/Valve amplifiers pros and cons

[FennerMachine]

What are the pros and cons tube/valve amps compared to similar priced solid state amps?

Amps in the price range of say £1500 to £2500.

Or is it really just what one prefers the sound of?

Facts, opinions & personal experience all welcome!

 

[chebby]

What are the pros and cons tube/valve amps compared to similar priced solid state amps?

Amps in the price range of say £1500 to £2500.

Or is it really just what one prefers the sound of?

Facts, opinions & personal experience all welcome!

Not an opinion but a link...

http://audiogold.co.uk/products-page/hi-fi/quad-ii-valve-monoblock-amplifiers/

...should give you the valve sound you want and match your Quad gear as well.

 

[BigH]

Not sure about the pros but the main con must be the tubes, reliability and getting quality replacements and also balancing them, some people swear by them but I know some have had problems. So suming up they are not so straight forward as a solid state amp. but I supose you knew that already. If you do buy one I would get it from a decent local dealer so if you do run into problems you should be able to get it sorted, however I would probably keep your Quad amp. as back-up.

The other problem is power, you will get less W p channel than a similar priced SS amp. generally so may need to choose speakers carefully but at your price range it maybe not such a problem.

Oh and generally higher distortion.

 

[mahlerous]

A bit like Plasma TV, once you get a Valve amp there's no going back - they're real hifi.......

 

[davedotco]

A bit like Plasma TV, once you get a Valve amp there's no going back - they're real hifi.......

There are valves in my plasma.....?

No wonder it runs so hot......

Actually I am surprised no one has mentioned the output transformers.

Wide bandwidth, high power and low distortion equals lots of money. Single bigest issue in my opinion.

 

[Tacty]

Actually I am surprised no one has mentioned the output transformers.

Wide bandwidth, high power and low distortion equals lots of money. Single bigest issue in my opinion.

this...i have some el84 amp working in triode mode, so dunno, 5-6-7 watts tops...it is almost unusable over 12 o clock, it distorted like hell...if some music has lower level, it's almost impossible to listen to, especially classical music...i gave up at the end, and put it in the closet, maybe it will be of some use for some b or c system...all round tube amp will cost an arm and leg, i wouldnt bother in the future with some diy projects of low wattage tube amps, including cheap chinese ones...maybe prima luna or such will be better, but i'm sceptical anyway...mcintosh or bust

 

[CnoEvil]

In General

- Nothing else quite sounds like a good Valve Amp, and if that is for you, your search stops here.

- Little sounds worse than a bad Valve amp, as it's not an automatic ticket to hifi nirvana.

- It is worth checking out SS Class A before making the jump eg. Sugden A21 / Masterclass.

- Valve amps can sound very different eg. VTL vs Jadis or Pure Sound vs Unison Research.

- Hybrid give an nice compromise, combining the strengths of both eg. Pathos.

- Owning a Valve amp is not a "plug and forget" solution, but like an old sports car, will richly reward the listener for the care and attention put into it.

Strengths

- The magic is in the liquid mid-range. I have yet to hear any SS amp quite match the realism and emotion that a good Valve amp conveys.

- Dynamic sound with fast transient response

- A clear, sweet, detailed sound that makes most music sound "right".

Weaknesses

- Valve life, which is not really that big an issue.

- Requires correct biasing, so a bit more faff involved

- Cost of replacement Valves

- Requires more careful speaker matching

- Bass "can" be warmer and less well controlled than a good SS amp

- Not always an "all-rounder", preferring some genres of music over others.

- Valves get hot, so not as child friendly as Class D.

- A Valve amp lives or dies by the robustness of it's power supply, which as DDC said, comes at a cost.

 

[floyd droid]

and also balancing them,

Eh ?.

 

[floyd droid]

Nothing else quite sounds like a good Valve Amp, and if that is for you, your search stops here.

So stop fretting , live by the sword and die by the sword and buy the ruddy thing.

 

[CnoEvil]

Strengths

- The magic is in the liquid mid-range. I have yet to hear any SS amp quite match the realism and emotion that a good Valve amp conveys.

- Dynamic sound with fast transient response

- A clear, sweet, detailed sound that makes most music sound "right".

Strengths (cont.)

- Tailor sound with "Tube Rolling".

 

[CnoEvil]

Nothing else quite sounds like a good Valve Amp, and if that is for you, your search stops here.

So stop fretting , live by the sword and die by the sword and buy the ruddy thing.

I should sell the ruddy things, as I've almost convinced myself........if only the 35i wasn't so good!

 

[floyd droid]

if only the 35i wasn't so good!

As a door stop ?

 

[plastic penguin]

In General

- Nothing else quite sounds like a good Valve Amp, and if that is for you, your search stops here.

- Little sounds worse than a bad Valve amp, as it's not an automatic ticket to hifi nirvana.

- It is worth checking out SS Class A before making the jump eg. Sugden A21 / Masterclass.

- Valve amps can sound very different eg. VTL vs Jadis or Pure Sound vs Unison Research.

- Hybrid give an nice compromise, combining the strengths of both eg. Pathos.

- Owning a Valve amp is not a "plug and forget" solution, but like an old sports car, will richly reward the listener for the care and attention put into it.

Weaknesses

- Cost of replacement Valves

- Requires more careful speaker matching

- Bass "can" be warmer and less well controlled than a good SS amp

- Not always an "all-rounder", preferring some genres of music over others.

- Valves get hot...

Sheesh! Whenever I mention any of those I get pummeled by Droidy and the other valve-heads. :shame:

 

[floyd droid]

Tailor sound with "Tube Rolling".

Aye , but just to add that my findings are its not worth spending an arm and a leg on rolling different power valves. The driver/small signal valves are the babys to roll.

 

[floyd droid]

Sheesh! Whenever I mention any of those I get pummeled by Droidy and the other valve-heads. :shame:

Ok I'm going to pummel you simply for posting

 

[CnoEvil]

if only the 35i wasn't so good!

As a door stop ?

A door stopping sound, more like.

 

[floyd droid]

if only the 35i wasn't so good!

As a door stop ?

A door stopping sound, more like.

Ha ha , nice one Cno

 

[iceman16]

My cdp and amp sounds more like valve/ tube combo so I won't bother changing in the near future:bounce:

 

[CnoEvil]

In General

- Nothing else quite sounds like a good Valve Amp, and if that is for you, your search stops here.

- Little sounds worse than a bad Valve amp, as it's not an automatic ticket to hifi nirvana.

- It is worth checking out SS Class A before making the jump eg. Sugden A21 / Masterclass.

- Valve amps can sound very different eg. VTL vs Jadis or Pure Sound vs Unison Research.

- Hybrid give an nice compromise, combining the strengths of both eg. Pathos.

- Owning a Valve amp is not a "plug and forget" solution, but like an old sports car, will richly reward the listener for the care and attention put into it.

Weaknesses

- Cost of replacement Valves

- Requires more careful speaker matching

- Bass "can" be warmer and less well controlled than a good SS amp

- Not always an "all-rounder", preferring some genres of music over others.

- Valves get hot...

Sheesh! Whenever I mention any of those I get pummeled by Droidy and the other valve-heads. :shame:

There were no "absolutes" in my statement.....but as Floydy well knows, it gets expensive to put these things right.....check out the prices of Audio Note and VTL's better amps. VTL can drive pretty much anything, but AN's SETs work much better with (their own) very efficient speakers.

 

[Covenanter]

I did my degree from 1968 to 1971 and in the first year we did little else on the circuits side except valves and we built valve amplifiers for fun. The following year we did transistors and built transistor amplifiers.

We did lots of comparative testing (for fun) and there were people who liked the sound of valves and people who liked the sound of transistors. (It was complicated by the old class A / class B controversy too.) I was a transistor man.

People often described the valve sound as "warm" (which I think is like CNo's "liquid") but to me it is fuzzy. People often described the transistor sound as harsh but to me it is accurate. The truth is that both types of amplifier introduce distortion to the signal and it largely comes down to what type of distortion you prefer.

So the only way to find out which you prefer is to listen!

Chris

 

[plastic penguin]

In General

- Nothing else quite sounds like a good Valve Amp, and if that is for you, your search stops here.

- Little sounds worse than a bad Valve amp, as it's not an automatic ticket to hifi nirvana.

- It is worth checking out SS Class A before making the jump eg. Sugden A21 / Masterclass.

- Valve amps can sound very different eg. VTL vs Jadis or Pure Sound vs Unison Research.

- Hybrid give an nice compromise, combining the strengths of both eg. Pathos.

- Owning a Valve amp is not a "plug and forget" solution, but like an old sports car, will richly reward the listener for the care and attention put into it.

Weaknesses

- Cost of replacement Valves

- Requires more careful speaker matching

- Bass "can" be warmer and less well controlled than a good SS amp

- Not always an "all-rounder", preferring some genres of music over others.

- Valves get hot...

Sheesh! Whenever I mention any of those I get pummeled by Droidy and the other valve-heads. :shame:

There were no "absolutes" in my statement.....but as Floydy well knows, it gets expensive to put these things right.....check out the prices of Audio Note and VTL's better amps. VTL can drive pretty much anything, but AN's SETs work much better with (their own) very efficient speakers.

I've always been complimentary of the sound of valve or tube amps. True, haven't heard one for years, but I've always said about the 'heat', valve changes after a period etc. I would never disuade anyone from buying one, but just like to point out, as with SS amps, they have their imperfections.

 

[FennerMachine]

I think the pros are outweighing the cons for me so far.

Icon Audio Stereo 40 KT88 sounded good with everything I through at it using a pair of their speakers.

I don't mind replacing valves every few years.

Most other weaknesses given so far I'm not too worried about.

 

[CnoEvil]

I did my degree from 1968 to 1971 and in the first year we did little else on the circuits side except valves and we built valve amplifiers for fun. The following year we did transistors and built transistor amplifiers.

We did lots of comparative testing (for fun) and there were people who liked the sound of valves and people who liked the sound of transistors. (It was complicated by the old class A / class B controversy too.) I was a transistor man.

People often described the valve sound as "warm" (which I think is like CNo's "liquid") but to me it is fuzzy. People often described the transistor sound as harsh but to me it is accurate. The truth is that both types of amplifier introduce distortion to the signal and it largely comes down to what type of distortion you prefer.

So the only way to find out which you prefer is to listen!

Chris

If you haven't heard a decent Valve amp since your home-made versions of over 40 years ago, you might just be surprised by what certain brands now sound like.....and it certainly needn't be fuzzy.

In my description, "warm" refers to the bass, and "liquid" refers mostly to the mid-range.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think the pros are outweighing the cons for me so far.

Icon Audio Stereo 40 KT88 sounded good with everything I through at it using a pair of their speakers.

I don't mind replacing valves every few years.

Most other weaknesses given so far I'm not too worried about.

That's the sort of pioneering spirit that needs encouraged! :cheer:

 

[Infiniteloop]

I think the closest I can describe the difference between Valve Amps and SS Amps, in my experience, is that Valves get much closer to producing 'Music' versus SS Amps which more accurately produce 'Sound'.

It really is down to which type of sound you like. Most Valve Amps are, it's true, less in control of bass compared to SS Amps, but vocals and acoustic instruments through a Valve Amp can have the power to raise the hair on the back of your neck, bring tears to your eyes and a lump in your throat.

I also find a good Valve Amp never makes you wince at the sound and involves you to the extent that you forget that you're listening to equipment rather than music.

Quite often, even when it's way past bedtime, I find it difficult to turn the music off.