It's not exactly "new" thinking either - tone defeats have been available on amps for getting on at least 35 years and probably more.
Basically, enjoy what you like.
If both are at max though, chances are you are missing out on the vocals and other mid-range. Ultimately your choice.
If both are at max though, chances are you are missing out on the vocals and other mid-range. Ultimately your choice.
chebby
Well-known member
I have frequently used tone controls in the past right up until a week ago*.
I have used them to ease off treble and bass a notch (Arcam Solo-Mini + Rega R3s), I have used the loudness button (when any of my amps had one) for listening at very low volumes late at night.
*Until a week ago I was using some mild EQ on iTunes to boost upper bass a tiny bit with my old Naim n-SAT speakers.
I have never used tone controls 'to the max' as you describe and never used 'loudness' at anything but low volumes. I doubt I have ever used treble or bass more than +/- 2 notches out of 10 (if they had been scaled to 10).
They are useful to compensate when changing between speakers (or rooms) or - very occasionally - with a really 'rough' recording as a viable option to not playing it at all.
If the options are either (a) keep a favoured system the way it is with a little judicious 'adjustment' or (b) spend lots of money and time tweaking the tonal balance with new amps/speakers/sources/cables etc. then I would go for (a).
I happen to have kit without tone controls, and this has been true for about half of the last 30 years on and off. I do miss them and - ideally - I would like to see subtle and well designed tone controls on all amplifiers. I would like to see companies like Audiolab re-introduce tone controls (as they had on the original 8000a from the 1980s).
Companies like Luxman, Accuphase, Quad, Yamaha, McIntosh, Arcam, Rotel, NAD... and many others still include them at all levels from the esoteric to the humble. But there is a 'hair-shirt' element of manufacturers who won't.
Despite my liking for tone controls (I even love backlit VU meters despite their uselessness) I could never use tone controls 'to the max' as you do. I have heard (all too often) what it can do to the sound.
Someone else mentioned wine. I would also draw the parallel with seasoning food. Some people will put huge amounts of salt and pepper and ketchup (and sugar) in and on everything. Some will taste the food first then 'adjust' with a little seasoning. Some will not season food at all (even when cooking), believing that ingredients should only taste of what they are without 'aldulteration'.
I have used them to ease off treble and bass a notch (Arcam Solo-Mini + Rega R3s), I have used the loudness button (when any of my amps had one) for listening at very low volumes late at night.
*Until a week ago I was using some mild EQ on iTunes to boost upper bass a tiny bit with my old Naim n-SAT speakers.
I have never used tone controls 'to the max' as you describe and never used 'loudness' at anything but low volumes. I doubt I have ever used treble or bass more than +/- 2 notches out of 10 (if they had been scaled to 10).
They are useful to compensate when changing between speakers (or rooms) or - very occasionally - with a really 'rough' recording as a viable option to not playing it at all.
If the options are either (a) keep a favoured system the way it is with a little judicious 'adjustment' or (b) spend lots of money and time tweaking the tonal balance with new amps/speakers/sources/cables etc. then I would go for (a).
I happen to have kit without tone controls, and this has been true for about half of the last 30 years on and off. I do miss them and - ideally - I would like to see subtle and well designed tone controls on all amplifiers. I would like to see companies like Audiolab re-introduce tone controls (as they had on the original 8000a from the 1980s).
Companies like Luxman, Accuphase, Quad, Yamaha, McIntosh, Arcam, Rotel, NAD... and many others still include them at all levels from the esoteric to the humble. But there is a 'hair-shirt' element of manufacturers who won't.
Despite my liking for tone controls (I even love backlit VU meters despite their uselessness) I could never use tone controls 'to the max' as you do. I have heard (all too often) what it can do to the sound.
Someone else mentioned wine. I would also draw the parallel with seasoning food. Some people will put huge amounts of salt and pepper and ketchup (and sugar) in and on everything. Some will taste the food first then 'adjust' with a little seasoning. Some will not season food at all (even when cooking), believing that ingredients should only taste of what they are without 'aldulteration'.
I think you guys are right about wrong equipment.
Before I got Wharfedale 10.1s I had Jamo speakers and if i remember correctly, they were not maxed out on my amp, they were at 3 o clock, bass and treble.
I may be that I think my 10.1 is a little too laid back and muddled which makes me max them out with the tone control.
I have looked at B&W 685 and Rotel 04SE before, is this a speaker and amp for me then (with my wishes in sound)?
Before I got Wharfedale 10.1s I had Jamo speakers and if i remember correctly, they were not maxed out on my amp, they were at 3 o clock, bass and treble.
I may be that I think my 10.1 is a little too laid back and muddled which makes me max them out with the tone control.
I have looked at B&W 685 and Rotel 04SE before, is this a speaker and amp for me then (with my wishes in sound)?
If you like very deep bass, typically, a floorstander would be better. Not saying standmounts can't do bass, but if you want scale and depth, they'd be the first ones on my shortlist. Larger standmounts (B&Ws older 602S3 for instance) would do a similar job - after that, it's a matter of taste.
Mission 751s - as I recall - did an excellent line in the bass department, could go deep, were fast and agile standmounts and you'd get a good pair now for about £100 (originally £300 in the 1990s, or £350 for the Freedom model).
Mission 751s - as I recall - did an excellent line in the bass department, could go deep, were fast and agile standmounts and you'd get a good pair now for about £100 (originally £300 in the 1990s, or £350 for the Freedom model).
Floorstanders are a no no for me, takes too much space and looks more like an furniture to me 
Small speakers that sing loud is on my wishlist.
Small speakers that sing loud is on my wishlist.
You have the speaker stand to factor in then (which then takes up as much of a footprint that a typical floorstander, so the gain is moot I think). That said, the best small speaker with deep bass I have heard of late is Genelec's 8030A active speaker. £850 a pair, roughly 12" high, depth plumbing, clean and highly musical speakers. Additional subs are also available.
I NEED tone controls for late night, low volume listening, otherwise my music would be all but unlistenable.
Use the tone controls and don't listen to what anyone says when they say it's different from the way the producer intended. It always will be no matter what kit you have. There is massive tonal differences between brands and between floorstanding and standmount speakers. There isn't a single person on this forum who knows how a recording should sound. Perhaps that little bass and treble boost is more like what the producer wanted? We'll never know.
Enjoy your hifi. Whatever the settings!
Enjoy your hifi. Whatever the settings!
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