Hi,
1. The point was, that the Naim amplifiers designs are sub-optimal, use the same components as any other amplifier (except their output transistors currently). If you want to know the cost then try pinkfishmedia.net in the DIY section for how much it costs to build a clone.
2. When you compare the Denon CEOL to the Naim and price paid, the Denon is much better value for money by quite a margin.
3. You may like the Naim sound, others don't, so in the end the value from a component basis the Naim is low value, but from a subjective view, then you assign the value you want.
4. The hype is that a sub-optimal circuit costs so much money.
5. You can obtain a Naim sound if you build the clone amplifiers, which will be at a much reduced cost.
6. The problem is people claiming their equipment is better than the Denon just because it costs a lot of money or has a reputation.
7. In looking at the Naim designs where available, and an amplifier such as Audiolab 8000A (circuit is available on the internet), then the Audiolab circuit is far superior, for much less money.
8. If you are happy with the Naim, then great for you. It just is not better than other equipment costing significantly less. The Denon CEOL is liked by the original poster, but they want to upgrade. There are other options out there costing much less than Naim.
Edited your post with numbers so I can adress each point individually.
1. Out of principle, I probably wouldn't opt for a clone, since I think the designers, who invested time and money into creating a product should be rewarded for their gamble. It's easy to reverse engineer stuff, come after and say "yes, well, of course, this is simple". Well, if it was, how come the "cloners" are not the ones sitting on a pile of cash in their hi-fi company director's office?
2. I wasn't discussing VFM. And you weren't either. You're saying that regardless of cost, they're just as good.
3. Exactly. It's about listening to music, subjectivity is all there is to it. If it was about monitoring recordings or a competition of measurements, then objectivity should've indeed weighed more. But it's about personal taste.
4. How is it sub-optimal if I prefer it to every other brand I heard, even at higher prices? I would say that it's ABOVE-optimal!
5. You might say that about the Denon as well. How do you know it's parts don't cost 10 pennies?
Also, there's other factors involved, like probably different business models.
6. I agree with you here. People saying that something sounds better JUST BECAUSE it costs more should get no credit. However, I find that statement to be a generalisation and a strawman agrument, as it's usually not the case. Usually, people talk about obvious stuff, like bass detail, texture and weight, which is something you can easily hear when it gets better.
7. I heard Audiolab 8000, and to my ears the "better" design sounds clinical and soulless. Again, this "better" relates (probably) only to measurements, which means nothing to me, since my purpose is not to monitor a studio mix, but to dance around the house with my family, or feel joyous.
8. There are other options out there that cost MORE than Naim, what's your point?
Hey Rainsoothe........you maybe should reinvestigate the price of getting your Naim streamer screen repaired...I was under the impression that it was the same price as the standard service (around £360) My Naim superuniti screen faded away to almost nothing...I called loud and clear Glasgow and found out that they can just repair the screen, I'm actually taking it up to them today as they have received the returns authorisation from Salisbury.....the cost £140 plus carriage another £40.....it's took a month or so to get to this point obviously due to the present circumstances. I know that the screens fading on these units is some real poor quality control, but I need it fixed and apparently the new screens are of superior quality.
Thanks for your help. Unfortunately, I'm not UK based, and last time I asked my dealer, they weren't authorised to carry out this kind of repair. But maybe something has changed in the meantime.
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