The WHF Film Club

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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW

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Depending on the film, we can go quite in-depth at times.

I'll start by saying that Pan's Labyrinth is one of my favourite films, and to me, it's virtually flawless, and definitely in my top ten all time movies.
 

Frank Harvey

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Great film. Not sure it'd be in my Too 10 though - just too many to choose from! GDT is a brilliant story teller though, and most of the films he has been involved in prove that - whether he has had an influence on the films he's only produced I don't know, but they all seem as though they have. Except Pacific Rim. That one sucked, despite being enjoyable :)
 
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David@FrankHarvey said:
Great film. Not sure it'd be in my Too 10 though - just too many to choose from! GDT is a brilliant story teller though, and most of the films he has been involved in prove that - whether he has had an influence on the films he's only produced I don't know, but they all seem as though they have. Except Pacific Rim. That one sucked, despite being enjoyable :)

I hope Gravity's not in your top ten, if PL isn't. :pray:

And god yes, Pacific Rim was just awful, and I really hope GDT doesn't sell himself out to the Hollywood devil again.
 

Frank Harvey

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I'm not keen on Top 10 movie lists as there's just too much to choose from. I'd rather compile Top 5 or Top 10 lists for specific genres. Even then, when compiling your Top 10 lists, you feel compelled to include the usual 'classic' movies that people expect to see, which you almost feel should be included otherwise you might come across as an idiot. It's almost the total opposite of music - many people will judge those into classic artists such as Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, The Eagles, Led Zep etc and say they don't really know anything about real music, whereas if you don't list classic films like 2001, Chinatown, Lawrence Of Arabia etc, then you're also judged as knowing nothing about movies! How contrasting...

Anyway, as much as I like Gravity, no, it wouldn't be in my Top 10 movies, but I think it would be in my Top 10 space related movies (I won't mention 'sci-fi' or 'science fiction' as I've recently seen a heated debate about the two being quite different things...)
 

richardw42

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Del Toro is so meticulous. He took so much care with PL.

he sees PL as the females film to the Devils Backbone (not watched that yet) male story. He also stuck to what he calls the Rule of Three.
 

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BenLaw said:
I've noticed a whole load of new releases available for preorder in the last week or two, lots of horror, especially Vincent Price. I've also added Victim, If... and An Inspector Calls.

This might be of interest, too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FRIGHT-Masters-Cinema-Format-Blu-ray/dp/B00GWJSZY6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394562653&sr=8-1&keywords=wake+in+fright+blu+ray

I'm glad Eureka home video continues to operate. This small distributor's existence almost makes up for Criterion region-locking.

I've never seen Victim, though it's a film I've read about. You'll have to let me know what you think.
 
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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
I've ordered the remote to make my 120 multi region for dvd, so hopefully that will arrive in the next few days.

It arrived, and it didn't work. :boohoo:

Apparently they have trouble working with some 120s and 220s because of the IR sensor being too sensitive, so I'll have to contact them and they'll send me a less powerful one that will work.
 

BenLaw

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strapped for cash said:
BenLaw said:
I've noticed a whole load of new releases available for preorder in the last week or two, lots of horror, especially Vincent Price. I've also added Victim, If... and An Inspector Calls.

This might be of interest, too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FRIGHT-Masters-Cinema-Format-Blu-ray/dp/B00GWJSZY6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394562653&sr=8-1&keywords=wake+in+fright+blu+ray

I'm glad Eureka home video continues to operate. This small distributor's existence almost makes up for Criterion region-locking.

I've never seen Victim, though it's a film I've read about. You'll have to let me know what you think.

Thanks for that. Not heard of the film but sounds right up my street. Frankly anything compared to Straw Dogs is going to get me interested. What can you tell me about it?

Agree about Eureka. Although I can't say it makes up for Criterion. I recently watched and now want to buy Slacker. Criterion? Yep. UK blu ray? Grrr.
 

BenLaw

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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
I've ordered the remote to make my 120 multi region for dvd, so hopefully that will arrive in the next few days.

It arrived, and it didn't work. :boohoo:

Apparently they have trouble working with some 120s and 220s because of the IR sensor being too sensitive, so I'll have to contact them and they'll send me a less powerful one that will work.

D'oh. Great excuse though - 'sorry, sir, our product's just too good for your needs. We'll send you a worse one.'

I rewatched PL last night. It was more disturbing than I remembered. Can I kick things off by posing a couple of questions - what do people think the purpose of the magic realism was? Would / could the film have worked as a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film?
 
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BenLaw said:
D'oh. Great excuse though - 'sorry, sir, our product's just too good for your needs. We'll send you a worse one.'

The paperwork said that if the remote fails to work, try from a distance of 4-6 metres, which resulted in my neighbour asking me what the f*ck I was doing in her house. :)
 

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BenLaw said:
anything compared to Straw Dogs is going to get me interested. What can you tell me about it?

I haven't seen it. To my knowledge, this is the first time this so-called "lost film" has received a UK home video release.

By reputation it's nihilistic and shocking, certainly by 1970s standards, and arguably still today. It also contains scenes of animal cruelty, filmed during a real hunt, which may justifiably put some people off.

This seemed more acceptable before the mid-1980s. Think Apocalypse Now, or Heaven's Gate, or "midnight movie" El Topo, or "ozploitation" flick Patrick (referenced in Kill Bill when The Bride spits while comatose).

BenLaw said:
Agree about Eureka. Although I can't say it makes up for Criterion. I recently watched and now want to buy Slacker. Criterion? Yep. UK blu ray? Grrr.

I own Slacker on DVD. It's definitely of its time. Quality-wise it's perfectly acceptable, if i remember rightly. Admittedly I'd rather own every film in my collection on BD.
 
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BenLaw said:
I rewatched PL last night. It was more disturbing than I remembered. Can I kick things off by posing a couple of questions - what do people think the purpose of the magic realism was? Would / could the film have worked as a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film?

I'm really not sure of the purpose of the magic realism, but it definitely pulls the film out of the ordinary that's for sure. Maybe that's the reason?

I think the film could work as a straight war film, and I'm sure it would have been good, but the extra factor moves it up a couple of leagues IMO.

I absolutely love this film.
 

BenLaw

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strapped for cash said:
BenLaw said:
anything compared to Straw Dogs is going to get me interested. What can you tell me about it?

I haven't seen it. To my knowledge, this is the first time this so-called "lost film" has received a UK home video release.

By reputation it's nihilistic and shocking, certainly by 1970s standards, and arguably still today. It also contains scenes of animal cruelty, filmed during a real hunt, which may justifiably put some people off.

This seemed more acceptable before the mid-1980s. Think Apocalypse Now, or Heaven's Gate, or "midnight movie" El Topo, or "ozploitation" flick Patrick (referenced in Kill Bill when The Bride spits while comatose).

BenLaw said:
Agree about Eureka. Although I can't say it makes up for Criterion. I recently watched and now want to buy Slacker. Criterion? Yep. UK blu ray? Grrr.

I own Slacker on DVD. It's definitely of its time. Quality-wise it's perfectly acceptable, if i remember rightly. Admittedly I'd rather own every film in my collection on BD.

Interesting. I think it's one for the lovefilm list rather than an immediate purchase then. The film that leaped to my mind with animal cruelty was Cannibal Holocaust, which is pretty grim and varied. Have only seen Apocalypse Now of the others, Heaven's Gate looks to be of historical significance regarding the AHA but sounds terrible. I was interested to see the prominence Tarantino gave to his good work with horses in Django. There was a very good mini documentary on the subject on the blu ray also.
 

BenLaw

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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
BenLaw said:
I rewatched PL last night. It was more disturbing than I remembered. Can I kick things off by posing a couple of questions - what do people think the purpose of the magic realism was? Would / could the film have worked as a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film?

I'm really not sure of the purpose of the magic realism, but it definitely pulls the film out of the ordinary that's for sure. Maybe that's the reason?

I think the film could work as a straight war film, and I'm sure it would have been good, but the extra factor moves it up a couple of leagues IMO.

I absolutely love this film.

I'd be interested to see what some of the others say on this point. Given strapped is around and I'm sure he's seen the film I'm sure also that we could entertain the views of a non-member!
 

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BenLaw said:
Have only seen Apocalypse Now of the others

El Topo's a lot of nonsense, really (including the opening mole anecdote), though it's a notable cult film and one of the original "midnight movies" (as was Eraserhead). I'm perhaps being unkind to Jodorowsky and collaborators here. File under "best viewed after taking hallucinogens."

Patrick's pretty silly, too, if occasionally intriguing, with a couple of well worked shocks. Going back to earlier discussion of psychoanalysis and cinema, the filmmakers propose that the id is so powerful it can survive brain death, as the "in a coma but still deadly" tagline suggests. I don't think the film had a terribly serious premise.

BenLaw said:
Heaven's Gate looks to be of historical significance regarding the AHA but sounds terrible

It was also one of the biggest flops in movie history, and had serious implications for UA.
 

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BenLaw said:
Given strapped is around and I'm sure he's seen the film I'm sure also that we could entertain the views of a non-member!

Oh, I don't know that I should storm back into discussion of nominated films, though I'll say the following.

It's useful to think of Pan's Labyrinth as an open text that invites realist and fantasist readings. It's also packed with metaphor (the flower with poisonous thorns, unable to bequeath its gift, etc....).

I was interested in some of the discussion above with reference to issues of film authorship and genre, and certain assumptions about both.

With regard to the former, nobody has ever managed to define a perfect genre. Theorists approach the subject of genre now in terms of marketing (a way of managing audience tastes and filmgoing habits).

It's helpful to think of film authorship in similar terms. The director is never the single author of a film, but the idea that a film represents a single artist's vision is a useful marketing construction. As above, audiences are offered a point of reference across films. This point of reference often informs their tastes and choices.

The idea of the director as author can be powerful in this regard, so when something goes wrong, we often attribute failure to external tampering, usually by corporate philistines, or "Hollywood" (this is a common caricature).

Film authorship is an incredibly complex subject, with a rich history of theory and literature, so I won't go into depth here. However, it's worth noting that the director wasn't always given such prominence.

During the so-called "classical" era, American cinema was regarded as a producer's medium, and the producer's name served a similar function. In addition, certain studios became associated with particular genre labels and stars. I recall you bought the Universal Monsters box-set, which is an example of the studio's name being put to use in the same way.
 

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I had a rare, free afternoon, so thought I'd sit down to watch Pan's Labyrinth. (It's a good few years since I last saw the film.)

Here are a few oppositions (and related themes) that might aid discussion:

Ofelia -- Vidal

Feminine -- Masculine

Childhood -- Adulthood

Myth/fantasy -- Reality

Immortality -- Mortality

Timelessness -- Ephemerality

I'll stick with my open text observation, since it's possible to regard all fantasy elements as products of Ofelia's imagination (chalk-line doors included). Alternatively, one can invest in the possibility of a mythical realm that exists for those who can see.
 

richardw42

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What I like about it is that Del Toro doesn't force the watcher to one conclusion.

to further the masculine / feminine bit and rule of 3 the are 3 of each. Vidal and his sergeants vs Ofelia, her mum, Mercedes.

Watch the dining scene where Vidal is giving the party, and then the bit with the Pale Man. Very similar.

He he uses colour to define the worls. Real-Labyrinth-underworld.

The the fire at the end of the film brings underworld colour to reality, and blurs the lines.
 

Frank Harvey

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As well as the examples he's given, the Faun gives her three fairies, and when she's sent on one of her tasks, she has three locks to choose from to open. I might be remembering wrongly, but didn't we only initially see three guys meet up Mercedes? I think there were three cooks too. It's all the way through - until someone points it out, you're unlikely to notice.

I did watch the interviews with him, but I don't recall any specific reason. If there was, I'm sure Richard will remember!
 

richardw42

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Of the del Toro references, the only one I can think of is the 3 sisters in Cinderella. But you'd also have Goldilocks, 3 little pigs. And even in Dickens A Christmas Carol (3 ghosts).

Pans even an Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman :)

Another 3 in PL, is the 3 stones she feeds to the toad.

The 3 fairies are coloured to reflect the different palettes of the 3 worlds.
 

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I was really wondering about the rationale behind the rule.

Ignoring questions of film authorship, what's the significance of the number three? Does del Toro believe this number has mythic importance, perhaps as an archetype that can be traced across folk and fairy tales?

If the answer to the last question is "yes," what does this tell us?

Linguistic theory (and film is certainly a language) stipulates that all language is arbitrary, and only achieves meaning through repetition of association.

If we accept this, "three" is no more significant than any other number, outside of any meanings associated with this number over time.
 
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