The WHF Film Club

[Frank Harvey]

Sorry, not been on here much over the weekend - started with a massive vinyl delivery Friday lunchtime which took until Saturday afternoon to sort out, book in, and expand the vinyl section to fit it all in! Plus we are gearing up for the open day this weekend too, as well as day to day stuff.

My film fest is ongoing! There was quite a lot I didn't manage to squeeze in, so that continued until a week or so into November, and then the new finish LS50s were made available, so I'm now running 5.0, which is making me want to watch all the films I purposely didn't watch during September/October because they really benefit from full surround. Today will see my 500th film of the year...

I've seen all three nominations, and to be honest, despite them being quite different films, they're all excellent in their own way. If there was one I hadn't seen I'd give that 3, but as I've seen them all, maybe you don't need my vote?

 

[expat_mike]

I've seen all three nominations, and to be honest, despite them being quite different films, they're all excellent in their own way. If there was one I hadn't seen I'd give that 3, but as I've seen them all, maybe you don't need my vote?

In that case I will go with Ex Machina, because BBB put it first, and Richard would like to watch it again.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

In that case I will go with Ex Machina, because BBB put it first, and Richard would like to watch it again.

Nice one, Mike. I was planning on watching it soon anyway, so I'm pleased you chose it.

I didn't get around to watching The White Ribbon, so I'll watch it next weekend. There's too much on at the moment, I'm still watching The Returned (though I am starting to lose interest), and I'm also watching the new series of Fargo and The Bridge III, so it's hard to find the time, but I will.

 

[thescarletpronster]

Hi, everyone. As predicted, I'm afraid haven't been able to join in as I've really struggled to think about or put together anything worth saying about the films. Two interesting choices, though.

I'm hoping my brain functioning will improve soon, and funnily enough Ex Machina just arrived through the post box this morning, so will make some notes for the discussion at the end of the month.

 

[strapped for cash]

When will you be discussing The White Ribbon?

I also own Ex Machina, so I'll be able to chip in with comments on the next two FC choices, if nobody objects.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

When will you be discussing The White Ribbon?

I also own Ex Machina, so I'll be able to chip in with comments on the next two FC choices, if nobody objects.

I think Mike and Richard have watched it already, I'm going for it today, so discussion can start from tomorrow. Feel free to join in, Strapped.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I've watched 'The White Ribbon'. I'll start the discussion tomorrow.

 

[bigboss]

Where's BenLaw?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Where's BenLaw?

Ben hasn't been on the forum for over 8 months.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

The White Ribbon

I was a bit tired, and to be honest, I wasn't that bothered if I watched it or not last night, but after the first 5 minutes, I was totally engrossed in it. Like many Michael Haneke films, the ending left the viewer with many questions and no clear resolution, but this is something I like about Haneke.

I have no idea of the point the film was making, and whether there was a point at all. The kids had a real darkness to them, quite respectful, yet an essence of evil, almost. The adults were no better, in fact, in the case of the Doctor, possibly worse.

There are so many questions to answer, far too many for my little brain, and I welcome any contributions to answer them.

 

[strapped for cash]

I have no idea of the point the film was making, and whether there was a point at all. The kids had a real darkness to them, quite respectful, yet an essence of evil, almost. The adults were no better, in fact, in the case of the Doctor, possibly worse.

I haven't had time to watch The White Ribbon again, which I've only seen once. I'm therefore going from relatively distant memory. If I can find a spare few hours, however, I'll re-view the film and offer more detailed thoughts. I should preface my comments below, therefore, with the observation that I may revise my opinion on subsequent viewing.

As I understand it, The White Ribbon is an allegory for the rise of fascism, though I recall thinking it wasn't particularly effective at unpacking the socio-political circumstances leading to the rise of the Third Reich. In fact, from what I remember, The White Ribbon doesn't engage directly with issues of politics, economics or propaganda that seem critical to any account of this historical period. Haneke has certainly used allegory to address political issues elsewhere (think Hidden, for example), though in my view The White Ribbon lacks the grounded and incisive thesis that defines some of his earlier work.

You're right that the children depicted are subject to social constraints, while demonstrating a form of malevolence or sociopathic cruelty. Perhaps Haneke's suggesting that repressive cultures incubate sociopathic and fascistic tendencies. Maybe he's right to make this association. The problem, I think, lies in divorcing this account from wider political and economic circumstances. In doing so Haneke et al. overlook the essential question of how a political organisation was able to mobilise a nation, or at least a dominant section of the German people, to support a genocide and other atrocities. If we're seeking to understand the rise of fascism in 1930s Germany, we must consider the Weimar Republic and economic collapse; we have to engage with issues of representation and propaganda (contrast Triumph of the Will with Night and Fog -- the former sanctioned a genocide, the latter condemned it; both documentaries are deeply upsetting, in very different ways). In failing to engage with issues of economics and propaganda, The White Ribbon offers at best a loose and incomplete explanation of arguably the darkest chapter in human history.

I also think aspects of the above discussion have bearing on current events, though I've certainly written enough for now. Relatedly, did anyone watch or record Lore? (I flagged up the C4 broadcast last week.)

 

[expat_mike]

Like many Michael Haneke films, the ending left the viewer with many questions and no clear resolution, but this is something I like about Haneke.

I have no idea of the point the film was making, and whether there was a point at all. The kids had a real darkness to them, quite respectful, yet an essence of evil, almost. The adults were no better, in fact, in the case of the Doctor, possibly worse.

There are so many questions to answer, far too many for my little brain, and I welcome any contributions to answer them.

I wasn't sure what to make of the film when it ended. At first I tried to work out whodunnit, and the doctor seemed the obvious guilty person, but then I wondered who had set the trap for the doctors horse. in the end, I concluded that there was more than one guilty person, but who were they?

Next i wondered if the unliked baron had represented the Kaiser, and if one of the dissenting villagers was a representation of Hitler in his early years - but after a few minutes i concluded that this was a blind alley.

There was a dark atmosphere to the whole village - even the parents had convinced themselves that beating their children, was their way of showing love to them. I am not sure why it was necessary to include the scene of incest between the doctor and his daughter - unless it was to make him appear even less sympathetic.

it was difficult to feel an empathy for anyone, apart from the teacher and his fiancee - but even they did not live happily ever after.

After a couple of days thinking things over, and getting nowhere, I concluded that the only hope of understanding the meaning of the film, was to find an interview by Haneke. After reading this, i realised that if i had spent a few days longer trying to decrypt the meaning of the film, i would have got no nearer to the truth.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Like many Michael Haneke films, the ending left the viewer with many questions and no clear resolution, but this is something I like about Haneke.

I have no idea of the point the film was making, and whether there was a point at all. The kids had a real darkness to them, quite respectful, yet an essence of evil, almost. The adults were no better, in fact, in the case of the Doctor, possibly worse.

There are so many questions to answer, far too many for my little brain, and I welcome any contributions to answer them.

I wasn't sure what to make of the film when it ended. At first I tried to work out whodunnit, and the doctor seemed the obvious guilty person, but then I wondered who had set the trap for the doctors horse. in the end, I concluded that there was more than one guilty person, but who were they?

Next i wondered if the unliked baron had represented the Kaiser, and if one of the dissenting villagers was a representation of Hitler in his early years - but after a few minutes i concluded that this was a blind alley.

There was a dark atmosphere to the whole village - even the parents had convinced themselves that beating their children, was their way of showing love to them. I am not sure why it was necessary to include the scene of incest between the doctor and his daughter - unless it was to make him appear even less sympathetic.

it was difficult to feel an empathy for anyone, apart from the teacher and his fiancee - but even they did not live happily ever after.

After a couple of days thinking things over, and getting nowhere, I concluded that the only hope of understanding the meaning of the film, was to find an interview by Haneke. After reading this, i realised that if i had spent a few days longer trying to decrypt the meaning of the film, i would have got no nearer to the truth.

What I find with Haneke's work, is that he likes to leave the vewer with lots of unanswered questions at the end of his films. As Strapped as said, there's usually a hidden meaning, something much deeper, and not necessarily related to the subject matter of the film.

I've seen 4 or 5 of his films now, and this is the first one I had the urge to watch again as soon as it finished. I found it quite engrossing.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Relatedly, did anyone watch or record Lore? (I flagged up the C4 broadcast last week.)

I didn't, for the single reason that my Sky subscription comes to an end on New Year's Eve, and I already have 10 or so films on there to watch before then, so I couldn't see how I'd find the time. I will try and remember the title for possible future viewing though.

Thanks for the input, Strapped, much appreciated.

 

[expat_mike]

What I find with Haneke's work, is that he likes to leave the vewer with lots of unanswered questions at the end of his films. As Strapped as said, there's usually a hidden meaning, something much deeper, and not necessarily related to the subject matter of the film.

Haneke certainly succeeded in that respect.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

What I find with Haneke's work, is that he likes to leave the vewer with lots of unanswered questions at the end of his films. As Strapped as said, there's usually a hidden meaning, something much deeper, and not necessarily related to the subject matter of the film.

Haneke certainly succeeded in that respect.

You may not have enjoyed The White Ribbon, but I, and I think strapped too, rateThe Piano Teacher as his best film, and although the subject matter makes for uncomfortable viewing, it's a must see.

 

[strapped for cash]

What I find with Haneke's work, is that he likes to leave the vewer with lots of unanswered questions at the end of his films. As Strapped as said, there's usually a hidden meaning, something much deeper, and not necessarily related to the subject matter of the film.

Haneke certainly succeeded in that respect.

I was referring specifically to the film Hidden rather than suggesting The White Ribbon has a deeper, hidden meaning. (In truth I think The White Ribbon is more than a little opaque.)

The White Ribbon maybe shares ground with The Piano Teacher, in linking repression with violence and sadism, though as I say, this seems a rather poor explanation for the rise of fascism. (And yes, I think The Piano Teacher is a much better film than The White Ribbon.)

If I have time tomorrow I'll stick the film in the BDP to see if anything strikes me, or indeed jogs my memory.

 

[strapped for cash]

Relatedly, did anyone watch or record Lore? (I flagged up the C4 broadcast last week.)

I didn't, for the single reason that my Sky subscription comes to an end on New Year's Eve, and I already have 10 or so films on there to watch before then, so I couldn't see how I'd find the time. I will try and remember the title for possible future viewing though.

Pity. I hadn't seen it before and I thought it was very good.

There's some overlap, thematically, between Lore and The White Ribbon. Did anyone else see or record this film?

 

[richardw42]

Sorry I haven't posted re The White Ribbon. I watched it in two sittings earlier this week.

I didn't dislike it but I found it very hard to get into. I don't like there not being resolutions and there was too many for it not to be annoying. It felt like characters / stories were just dropped rather than carefully written out.

What happened to

doctor and his children, the midwife and her son, what became of the steward and his son, the family of the farmer who hanged himself, the pastor and his children. The Baron and his wife. Perhaps the only thing we know of is what happens to the teacher

It was quite an oppressive environment for the children I think perhaps they were dishing out punishment for those that deserved it.

The doctors accident to punish him for sexually abusing his daughter.

I he barons son (and the fire) for the accident to the farmers wife.

Not sure if the beating of Karli was punishment for his mums affair with the doctor or whether he'd actually seen something, the follow up visit of the children when the teacher went to the house suggests it was the latter.

Not sure if killing the pastors bird (as a crucifix) was a warning or statement of defiance.

The strange happenings seemed to end once everybody had been punished ?

The director says that the film is not a direct commentary on Germany, but could have been anywhere at the time. Only part of the films title "The White Ribbon" was translated as the second part is only intended for those that understand German.

The white ribbon itself was meant as a tool for controlling the children rather than being a specific statement on Germany's dark past.

I doubt it's a film I'll watch again and I'll happily send my DVD copy for free to anyone who might want it.

 

[strapped for cash]

Relatedly, did anyone watch or record Lore? (I flagged up the C4 broadcast last week.)

I didn't, for the single reason that my Sky subscription comes to an end on New Year's Eve, and I already have 10 or so films on there to watch before then, so I couldn't see how I'd find the time. I will try and remember the title for possible future viewing though.

Film 4 late tonight, if your schedule and Sky box are less cluttered.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I apologise for not being around or posting for the last week or so, but I have been very busy trying to decorate a house before the carpets went down (which was 5 days earlier than the original date). I've finished now, and I'm probably off work from today until early January, so I'll hopefully be watching plenty of films. *smile*

 

[expat_mike]

I was thinking about watching the Piano Teacher again, but I opted to watch something lighter instead ( V for Vendetta). *biggrin*

 

[expat_mike]

BBB will know which film this has reminded me of. *biggrin*

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

BBB will know which film this has reminded me of. *biggrin*

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I was thinking about watching the Piano Teacher again, but I opted to watch something lighter instead ( V for Vendetta). *biggrin*

Do watch 'The Piano Teacher' though Mike, it's a good film, but possibly not one for Xmas day. *biggrin*