The old 80Hz/SMALL isssue

[RobinKidderminster]

I always set my system to 80Hz small dispite the 'large' floorstanders. My Yammy YPAO set the system to 160Hz & LARGE. I know this often happens but does anyone know WHY receivers seemingly always do so. Dont the manufactureres know anything ??

Cheers

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I guess 'we' don't know then? NP. Cheers

 

[Frank Harvey]

Sorry Rob(in), been rather busy today!

What the microphone picks up at the point it is placed isn't necessarily just what the speaker is producing - it will pick up the room effects as well - so if a small speaker is up against a wall, the mic may think it is bigger than it actually is, as room boundaries tend to add to the bass output of speakers and subs.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Sorry Rob(in), been rather busy today!

What the microphone picks up at the point it is placed isn't necessarily just what the speaker is producing - it will pick up the room effects as well - so if a small speaker is up against a wall, the mic may think it is bigger than it actually is, as room boundaries tend to add to the bass output of speakers and subs.

Thanks David. Glad your busy! Im not sure it fully answers the point tho. Infact it reinforces my issue. I have large speakers but why a 160 hz crossover which would suggest they are not giving much bass surely. Its strange because with few changes the ypao in the past has set 40hz which is maybe more understandable. YPAO seems not to able to make up its mind.

Cheers

 

[Frank Harvey]

Probably the other thing to add is that microphone placement is also important. When I had my old M&K's, I did two independent auto setups, with the mic moved literally about an inch, and the difference between the two was quite big. One placement had the YPAO set them to 100Hz crossover, and the other set them to 160Hz.

So it is placement of the speakers in relation to the room boundaries, and the placement of the microphone that will affect the outcome.

I've had small KEF KHT3005 speakers being set to 40Hz crossover, which is never something you'd do yourself!

 

[JohnHolmes]

Hi David, do you suggest leaving Audyssey settings as they are then or manually adjusting after running Audyssey?

 

[recruit]

I would always set the xover manually as no matter how good the EQ system is the room will always be the downfall and fool the system one way or another, usually the best setting when integrating a subwoofer into the system 80hz is a very good point to start with, usually the distance settings or delay settings as they are can be left as these can be usually, well I have found quite accurate so leave them set by the receiver and then see how your system sounds!

 

[JohnHolmes]

Hi recruit

What about using a SPL meter to check the speaker levels after running EQ?

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Not sure how the room 'fools' the auto eq. Surely thats what eq does. It analyses the sound at the mic after room effects?? I have found eq givea same as spl yet centre volume always needs gain to give decent speech. Is that my old ears?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi David, do you suggest leaving Audyssey settings as they are then or manually adjusting after running Audyssey?

Generally yes, but sometimes I find that dialogue can be a tad low on some films, so adding 1dB to the centre channel is something I usually do. The sub level is usually the main one people will change, either due to neighbours, young children usually in bed, or pure preference - some people like big impact to their movies, and others prefer sub bass to take a backseat as they find it distracting.

There's nothing wrong in changing any settings for your own personal preference, but I wouldn't change them too drastically.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi recruit

What about using a SPL meter to check the speaker levels after running EQ?

Thats fine, but it will partly depend on the accuracy of the SPL meter being used. Also, test tones output by an AV receiver are unaffected by the onboard EQ, so they may be a different level to what is actually being output by the receiver during use.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Not sure how the room 'fools' the auto eq. Surely thats what eq does. It analyses the sound at the mic after room effects?? I have found eq givea same as spl yet centre volume always needs gain to give decent speech. Is that my old ears?

But what the mic measures isn't necessarily what the speaker is giving out. Yes, that's the room EQ's job to EQ everything, but the mic doesn't know how big the speaker is - it can only guess based on what it is hearing, and the room boundaries will be reinforcing the bass, fooling the mic into thinking the speakers are bigger or more capable than they actually are. Many times I've measured the KEF KHT3005 speakers in our demo room and it sets the centre speaker to a 40Hz crossover, which is blatantly incorrect.

As mentioned in my previous post, I usually add 1dB to the centre channel on most installations.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Interesting! I need to look at the auto eq in a different light maybe. Not sure about the test tone issue but will continue to use auto simply for distance / phase and make adjustments. Cheers

 

[recruit]

Yes, I would always check SPL's with an meter to check the levels are right too so you have the correct balance across all speakers, you may like to run the sub a little hot which is ok depending on your own personal taste!

 

[ric71]

Anthem's ARC EQ sets all accurately in room. It sets my centre to 100hz even though the smaller L&R are set to 80hz. This is because the position of the centre speaker creates a clear dip at 80hz. I don't have an option to reposition the centre speaker. All results are clearly seen on the ARC graphs.

It sets levels accurately but does not set distance.

ARC users stick with ARC's results or move their individual speakers using the quick measure feature to improve the speakers response so less EQ is involved. It gives an instant graphical display of your speakers in room response each time you move it.

I have my sub playing flat down to 21hz but at 20hz there is a 2db drop because of its position that I can't change.

 

[recruit]

I have never had the pleasure of using ARC although it is highly rated, as for myself I do not use any EQ with my Arcam and it sounds sublime using the standard 80hz xover point for multichannel, I suppose it boils down to the system as a whole and set up being used, for 2 channel I just use direct and bypass the sub which I prefer and my speakers sound stunning listening in this way.

What ever works for you and sounds best is the way to go, just as long as you are happy with the end result!