The Musical Fidelity AMS 35i thread

[CnoEvil]

Please tell me this isn't your pension plan Cno lol

PENSION PLAN!.......it nearly go me shot! :doh:

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I will be glad to get some pre amp recommendations at the same price range as the m6i.

-mute

I'm hoping to be in your position in a year or so. and for that reason I already began doing some research. surprisingly the search is over for me already. I'm pretty much sold on a passive transformer preamp. if you, like me, will only need means to change sources and adjust volume then I'd recommend that solution for you too. check out Music First Audio Classic pre-amp or Townshend Audio Allegri pre, just to name a couple. The Allegri is slightly cheaper than the Classic in Version 2 but the Classic runs on true transformers rather than on outoformers. true transformers have a benefit of organically isolating sources from power amp (the transformer will break any possible ground loops). I think I'd rather go for the Music First personally.

I don't know how techy you are but from what I read it seems transformer base preamp is the best solution ever conceived. since it's passive there's no problems with electric noise. THD is totally inconsequential. frequency response is totally flat and extends far beyond audible spectrum. and transformer preamps have this uncanny property that they impedance match source to power amp which means you get full drive even at the lowest volume levels. resistor based passive preamps, while often much cheaper, have this disadvantage that on low volume levels you loose out on dynamic information in musical signal and also you get high frequency roll off due to raising output impedance, as seen by the power amp, because of high value resistor in signal path. transformer volume control on the other hand literally "helps" to pass signal on lower volume levels by raising input impedance as seen by source and lowering output impedance as seen by power amp. which means dynamic contrast is preserved even on low volume levels and you can run very long interconnects without worry, if you need to.

what are the benefits of all that technology? unmatched transparency and ability to convey dynamic contrasts as they appear. in other words - realism. if that's high on your priority lists then you should check out some transformer volume controls. you could also check some user reviews and pro reviews. this always is a good starting point to get the idea if the technology is worth researching in.

if a perfect amp is supposed to be the mythical straight wire with gain then shouldn't the perfect pre amp be straight wire with attenuation? TVC is exactly that.

 

[mute]

Hi Oldric

Seems like an interesting option.

I will definitely check it out. It happens thay the same Luxman dealer is the Music First distributor around here. So I will check with him soon.

I was reading a little about passive pre amps and I liked the idea of minimalism..just wire with a volume control. Question is whether these kind of pre-amplifications can handle less-than-perfect source quality. Not sure what to expect when combined with M1 DAC.

-mute

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Hi Oldric

Seems like an interesting option.

I will definitely check it out. It happens thay the same Luxman dealer is the Music First distributor around here. So I will check with him soon.

I was reading a little about passive pre amps and I liked the idea of minimalism..just wire with a volume control. Question is whether these kind of pre-amplifications can handle less-than-perfect source quality. Not sure what to expect when combined with M1 DAC.

-mute

just to dispel some possible confusion here; TVC (transformer Volume Control) is not a volume control in conventional meaning of the word. because a TVC is just a wire which hands out the signal to another wire while voltage to current conversion happens (this is partly the reason why TVC can easily drive long cables and conventional passive preamps of resistor pot-in-a-box type can't). there's no resistors, capacitors, inductors, tubes, transistors, op-amps or anything else in the path. just wound wire.

can it handle less-than-perfect source quality? it depends on what you mean by that. if you're not so happy about SQ from your M1 Dac then a passive TVC preamp will do little to ameliorate this. since it's just a wire there's no room for any colouration. just passing on the signal, albeit with lowered scale, further to the amp. however, if you wonder if M1 Dac would supply enough scale to drive your amp to its full potential then you have nothing to worry about. M1 Dac outputs 2V RMS and output impedance is very low and fluctuates from 49 Ohms to 79 Ohms over frequency spectrum for RCA outputs and these values double for XLRs (check measurements on Stereophile review FYI). your Pass amp has input voltage sensitivity of 0.77V which means it will reach its full power when fed a signal of only 0.77V. input impedance, however, is not very high, just 20 KOhms, but this is high enough not to exhibit any high frequency roll off in audible range when fed from a source of output impedance as low as in case of your your M1 Dac. so you can see the outout from M1 Dac will only need to be reduced. there's no need for any active preamplification in between your Dac and the amp. or in other words your Dac has good enough preamp, albeit with no volume control, to drive power amp directly. that's the reason why a passive preamp is not a missed idea. and a TVC preamp interacts with the rest of your gear with no interference compared to a resistor based preamp and brings in no nasties (THD, noise) compared to active preamp lot.

 

[mute]

Hi Oldric

Thanks for the detailed response and checking the exact parameters relevamt to my equipment.

I will definitely check it out and update when I have some results.

This is great,

-mute

 

[CnoEvil]

I am open to any suggestions regarding pre amps, both tubes and solid states are ok, as long as sound will be goooood and price will be more or less like the m6i...

mute

Here is a possibility - JE Audio VL20: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/jeaudio2/prepower.html

and maybe another here - Raysonic C200: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/raysonic3/quartet_3.html

Mute - this may have got burried (in case you missed it).

 

[CnoEvil]

Another review which succintly sums up this amp (google translation is reasonable):

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.fwdmagazine.be/fwd/135721/review-musical-fidelity-ams35i-versterker/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmusical%2Bfidelity%2Bams35i%2Breview%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1C1ASAA_enGB440GB440%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D667

 

[plastic penguin]

Another review which succintly sums up this amp (google translation is reasonable):

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.fwdmagazine.be/fwd/135721/review-musical-fidelity-ams35i-versterker/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmusical%2Bfidelity%2Bams35i%2Breview%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1C1ASAA_enGB440GB440%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D667

So given a price compatible Class A/B or D type amp, what advantages does your amp have? I've not heard any amp in that price sector, nor am I likely to. Which amps did you compare with before buying?

 

[CnoEvil]

So given a price compatible Class A/B or D type amp, what advantages does your amp have? I've not heard any amp in that price sector, nor am I likely to. Which amps did you compare with before buying?

IMO. The advantage is the removal of "switching" distortion and the lightening transient response, which gives a sound that is more emotional, natural and powerful, without ever sounding analytical. This particularly comes across with Violins and Sopranos.

Amps that it was compared with:

- Coda CSi

- Moon i7

- MF M6i

- Linn Akurate Pre / Power

- Linn Klimax Pre / Power (only out of interest)

- Bel Canto integrated

- Arcam AVR600 (in Stereo Direct)

IMO. Class AB sounds better when heavily biased in Class A; and Class D often sounds a little clean, detailed, dry and emotionless for my taste. As always, there are exceptions.....and system matching is key.

EDIT. I've just found this, which may shed some further light on your questions:

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=no&u=http://www.lydogbilde.no/test/musical-fidelity-ams35i&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmusical%2Bfidelity%2Bams35i%2Breview%26start%3D20%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1C1ASAA_enGB440GB440%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D667

 

[plastic penguin]

So given a price compatible Class A/B or D type amp, what advantages does your amp have? I've not heard any amp in that price sector, nor am I likely to. Which amps did you compare with before buying?

IMO. The advantage is the removal of "switching" distortion and the lightening transient response, which gives a sound that is more emotional, natural and powerful, without ever sounding analytical. This particularly comes across with Violins and Sopranos.

Amps that it was compared with:

- Coda CSi

- Moon i7

- MF M6i

- Linn Akurate Pre / Power

- Linn Klimax Pre / Power (only out of interest)

- Bel Canto integrated

- Arcam AVR600 (in Stereo Direct)

IMO. Class AB sounds better when heavily biased in Class A; and Class D often sounds a little clean, detailed, dry and emotionless for my taste. As always, there are exceptions.....and system matching is key.

EDIT. I've just found this, which may shed some further light on your questions:

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=no&u=http://www.lydogbilde.no/test/musical-fidelity-ams35i&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmusical%2Bfidelity%2Bams35i%2Breview%26start%3D20%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1C1ASAA_enGB440GB440%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D667

Thanks, Cno. Facinating read. One of the reoccuring phrases that tends to come up when talking about your amp is "natural". I like "natural", this is one phrase I use with the Leema. I know that MF M3 or M6 are different animals to mine, and although it is about opinions, some aspects strays beyond just "opinions" IMO (sorry ). By that I mean the word " natural". Whatever the room acoustics/set-up it either sound convincing or "real" or mechanical.

You must've had a nightmare when choosing speakers: I would be thinking, biting my knuckles, "they are great and they are great or wonderful. Which ones do I go for?"

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks, Cno. Facinating read. One of the reoccuring phrases that tends to come up when talking about your amp is "natural". I like "natural", this is one phrase I use with the Leema. I know that MF M3 or M6 are different animals to mine, and although it is about opinions, some aspects strays beyond just "opinions" IMO (sorry ). By that I mean the word " natural". Whatever the room acoustics/set-up it either sound convincing or "real" or mechanical.

You must've had a nightmare when choosing speakers: I would be thinking, biting my knuckles, "they are great and they are great or wonderful. Which ones do I go for?"

When HFW were reviewing the AMS50, and talking about its neutrality, they briefly mentioned the Pulse:

"Where, say, our "budget" Leema Pulse has accentuated treble (albeit of good quality) that with some speakers is a deal breaker, the AMS50 struck me as natural in balance, completely without accentuation and almost dryly stark."

I was lucky with the speakers, which imo suit the 35i perfectly:

- Neutral enough to reveal the strengths of Class A, without adding extra flavouring of their own

- Very efficient, with low impedance, which works with a low power / high current amp

- There isn't that big a choice where I live

Once one starts checking out speakers, it is usual for one brand to stand out above the others, with a particular amp.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks, Cno. Facinating read. One of the reoccuring phrases that tends to come up when talking about your amp is "natural". I like "natural", this is one phrase I use with the Leema. I know that MF M3 or M6 are different animals to mine, and although it is about opinions, some aspects strays beyond just "opinions" IMO (sorry ). By that I mean the word " natural". Whatever the room acoustics/set-up it either sound convincing or "real" or mechanical.

You must've had a nightmare when choosing speakers: I would be thinking, biting my knuckles, "they are great and they are great or wonderful. Which ones do I go for?"

When HFW were reviewing the AMS50, and talking about its neutrality, they briefly mentioned the Pulse:

"Where, say, our "budget" Leema Pulse has accentuated treble (albeit of good quality) that with some speakers is a deal breaker, the AMS50 struck me as natural in balance, completely without accentuation and almost dryly stark."

I was lucky with the speakers, which imo suit the 35i perfectly:

- Neutral enough to reveal the strengths of Class A, without adding extra flavouring of their own

- Very efficient, with low impedance, which works with a low power / high current amp

- There isn't that big a choice where I live

Once one starts checking out speakers, it is usual for one brand to stand out above the others, with a particular amp.

Mmmm... not sure whether to take the review as a compliment or not; to mention the Pulse in the same breath as a 9k amp. I know they stated "budget" Leema but it's like comparing my amp with a kitchen transistor radio. There's no comparison at all. The only thing it does say, really positive, is the accentuated treble being of "good quality".

It does concern me when these mags start to accentuate the positives of one component in comparison with a vastly cheaper one. "Where, for instance, the budget Alfa 156 tends to feel vague and wallowy when cornering, the new Ferrari 458 exhibits surefooted composure and reassurance at speed."

 

[CnoEvil]

Mmmm... not sure whether to take the review as a compliment or not; to mention the Pulse in the same breath as a 9k amp. I know they stated "budget" Leema but it's like comparing my amp with a kitchen transistor radio. There's no comparison at all. The only thing it does say, really positive, is the accentuated treble being of "good quality".

It does concern me when these mags start to accentuate the positives of one component in comparison with a vastly cheaper one. "Where, for instance, the budget Alfa 156 tends to feel vague and wallowy when cornering, the new Ferrari 458 exhibits surefooted composure and reassurance at speed."

It was a tiny section in a 3 page review, wasn't (imo) being detrimental to the Pulse given the price differential and only mentioned it in passing to highlight a point.

You can make up your own mind if you wish: http://www.bm.rs/Musical%20Fidelity/Musical%20Fidelity%20AMS-50%20-%20HiFi%20World%20March%202010.pdf

 

[plastic penguin]

Mmmm... not sure whether to take the review as a compliment or not; to mention the Pulse in the same breath as a 9k amp. I know they stated "budget" Leema but it's like comparing my amp with a kitchen transistor radio. There's no comparison at all. The only thing it does say, really positive, is the accentuated treble being of "good quality".

It does concern me when these mags start to accentuate the positives of one component in comparison with a vastly cheaper one. "Where, for instance, the budget Alfa 156 tends to feel vague and wallowy when cornering, the new Ferrari 458 exhibits surefooted composure and reassurance at speed."

It was a tiny section in a 3 page review, wasn't (imo) being detrimental to the Pulse given the price differential and only mentioned it in passing to highlight a point.

You can make up your own mind if you wish: http://www.bm.rs/Musical%20Fidelity/Musical%20Fidelity%20AMS-50%20-%20HiFi%20World%20March%202010.pdf

Yeah, they also mention the Pulse when they reviewd the Arcam A38. Although they said the A38 is "less flustered at maximum volume..." How many people play at full throttle?

 

[matt49]

Just to clarify what I was told at the time by MF. The lady I spoke to was head of international sales so this might only be their international policy not UK. However given the size of the company, I'd have to think that it is highly unlikely that they would be making one off units for their UK customers & putting their international customers on hold.

MF produce the amps in runs of 50 at a time and were not planning on doing any more runs at the time (September last year) as 50 new units represented 10 years worth of stock given the current economic conditions. This may have just been a figure (the number of years) that she plucked out of thin air to emphasise her point.

Presumably the production runs of 50 applied to both silver & black, however I didn't ask. I was looking for a black one & there were none left, silver was still available. So any discussion around the 35i no longer being available might have been slightly misleading, what I should have said was that black ones might be hard to come by. She certianly didn't say that they would NEVER be made again, just that at the moment they couldn't justify the cost given present demand. So who knows, in time there may well be another run of units, let's hope so.

I spoke to my local MF dealer about this last week. He said that production of the AMS35i is on hold because the company that supplies the heatsinks (and they're not just any old heatsinks) went bust. Don't know how true this is.

 

[CnoEvil]

I spoke to my local MF dealer about this last week. He said that production of the AMS35i is on hold because the company that supplies the heatsinks (and they're not just any old heatsinks) went bust. Don't know how true this is.

Well, well.......the plot thickens.

I wonder if it makes all the heatsinks for the AMS series.

 

[plastic penguin]

Doesn't surprise me - lamentable but shows every aspect is effected by the economy.

 

[mute]

Hey Guys

Just placed an order of the MFA Basic V2 preamp

Probably I will stop purchasing audio equipment for the upcoming 10 years or so... combination with the pass sound as almost as good as the ams35i

Thanks a lot guys for your help!!!

-mute

 

[Macspur]

Good news... so glad you've found a system you are going to be happy and content with for a few years to come.

Don't be a stranger though.

Mac

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Hey Guys

Just placed an order of the MFA Basic V2 preamp

Probably I will stop purchasing audio equipment for the upcoming 10 years or so... combination with the pass sound as almost as good as the ams35i

Thanks a lot guys for your help!!!

-mute

we need more information, damn it!

how do you find MFA preamp? how is it like on low volume?

 

[matt49]

Hey Guys

Just placed an order of the MFA Basic V2 preamp

Probably I will stop purchasing audio equipment for the upcoming 10 years or so... combination with the pass sound as almost as good as the ams35i

Thanks a lot guys for your help!!!

-mute

Is that the MFA Classic v2 preamp?

 

[mute]

Hi guys,

No stranger....

Actually it was a strange demo... the dealer actually demoed the MFA reference model, after trying a Manely tube pre amp. It was like removing another blocking layer from the sound... I listened about 10 minutes and ordered the classic v2 model. Hopefully it will be ok...

I do not remember much playing with the volume knob, just that the sound was transparent without showing off.

Right now I am tired (from searching), broke and happy

And my wife still loves me :dance:

Will place a review once the unit will get here... probably in 2-3 weeks or so...

-mute

 

[Macspur]

For anyone interested there's an AMS 35I for sale

here

http://www.kronosav.com/sale/musical-fidelity-ams35i-integrated-amplifier-prices-reviews.html

 

[CnoEvil]

Hey Guys

Just placed an order of the MFA Basic V2 preamp

Probably I will stop purchasing audio equipment for the upcoming 10 years or so... combination with the pass sound as almost as good as the ams35i

Thanks a lot guys for your help!!!

-mute

If we were any way helpful, that's good.......and I echo Macs sentiment, and am delighted you are happy.

 

[CnoEvil]

For anyone interested there's an AMS 35I for sale

here

http://www.kronosav.com/sale/musical-fidelity-ams35i-integrated-amplifier-prices-reviews.html

Good spot Mac.

It was burried in my link to their sale.