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CES Hands On - Samsung HW-Q990F review
CnoEvil said:
Twice the length from the middle!
Let's be honest, the pre in the DSM is not really going to stack up all that well against a decent separate. Unless of course your ears really prefer that sound. Certainly wins out on the convenient, space saving, all in one aspect though.
At times I ponder if it might not have been better to have gone for a DSM. Would those extra inputs have been useful? But then I can't really think what I would plug into it. Now that I am in the swing of having everything stored on my NAS I can't ever see myself using a CD again. It's just a matter of slotting the disc into my computer rather than the CD player.
Mac, thanks very much for your suggestion! If you could also keep an eye out on the real estate listings for me I'm looking for a larger place to live, preferably with a separate HIFi room!!!
Please don't encourage CNO any more!!!
Have booked a session for tomorrow afternoon. Plan to listen to the Scalas, B&W802D & Avalon Ascent (not sure exactly what model/year these are). They have all three of these second hand / trade in, so just (not really) fall with-in the realms of possiblity. I'm trying to tell my brain not to go in with any pre-concieved ideas, can't help but think I just want the Scalas!
Will post my impressions in the next few days.
Neuphonix said:
Nice!
I predict - Scala; Ascent; 802 ......In that order, but the first two will be close.
Risky business, this predicting.
Macspur
Well-known member
Neuphonix said:CnoEvil said:
Twice the length from the middle!
Let's be honest, the pre in the DSM is not really going to stack up all that well against a decent separate. Unless of course your ears really prefer that sound. Certainly wins out on the convenient, space saving, all in one aspect though.
At times I ponder if it might not have been better to have gone for a DSM. Would those extra inputs have been useful? But then I can't really think what I would plug into it. Now that I am in the swing of having everything stored on my NAS I can't ever see myself using a CD again. It's just a matter of slotting the disc into my computer rather than the CD player.
Mac, thanks very much for your suggestion! If you could also keep an eye out on the real estate listings for me I'm looking for a larger place to live, preferably with a separate HIFi room!!!
Please don't encourage CNO any more!!!
Have booked a session for tomorrow afternoon. Plan to listen to the Scalas, B&W802D & Avalon Ascent (not sure exactly what model/year these are). They have all three of these second hand / trade in, so just (not really) fall with-in the realms of possiblity. I'm trying to tell my brain not to go in with any pre-concieved ideas, can't help but think I just want the Scalas!
Will post my impressions in the next few days.
I'll see what I can do on the housing front... look forward to your impressions of that trio of speakers.
Mac
[/quote]
Nice! I predict - Scala; Ascent; 802 ......In that order, but the first two will be close. Risky business, this predicting.[/quote]
How to enter a situation like this without falling victim to confirmation bias?
I'm intrigued by the Avalons after reading about Roby's decision. As said I don't know if they are 1st or 2nd model or how old they are.
I've never really liked the B&W sound to be honest, but they have a set there so why not? I'm open to having my mind changed.
If the Scalas are similar to the Diablos but with more bottom end, then it's going to be hard not to like them.
They are pretty big though & for all three the thing I really need to try & stay objective with is how suitable they will be in my space. Indeed this was one of the main factors that lead me towards the Diablos & away from the floorstaders in the first place.
I don't want to move from having too little bottom end to having too much (can you have too much!?). It's not as if I listen to pipe organ music & high volumes very often.
I've already played my opening gambit with the missus & didn't get cut off before I finished my spiel!!
should I start a new thread? or are you ok with me hijacking this one?
Nice! I predict - Scala; Ascent; 802 ......In that order, but the first two will be close. Risky business, this predicting.[/quote]
How to enter a situation like this without falling victim to confirmation bias?
I'm intrigued by the Avalons after reading about Roby's decision. As said I don't know if they are 1st or 2nd model or how old they are.
I've never really liked the B&W sound to be honest, but they have a set there so why not? I'm open to having my mind changed.
If the Scalas are similar to the Diablos but with more bottom end, then it's going to be hard not to like them.
They are pretty big though & for all three the thing I really need to try & stay objective with is how suitable they will be in my space. Indeed this was one of the main factors that lead me towards the Diablos & away from the floorstaders in the first place.
I don't want to move from having too little bottom end to having too much (can you have too much!?). It's not as if I listen to pipe organ music & high volumes very often.
I've already played my opening gambit with the missus & didn't get cut off before I finished my spiel!!
should I start a new thread? or are you ok with me hijacking this one?
Macspur
Well-known member
Nice! I predict - Scala; Ascent; 802 ......In that order, but the first two will be close. Risky business, this predicting.[/quote]
How to enter a situation like this without falling victim to confirmation bias?
I'm intrigued by the Avalons after reading about Roby's decision. As said I don't know if they are 1st or 2nd model or how old they are.
I've never really liked the B&W sound to be honest, but they have a set there so why not? I'm open to having my mind changed.
If the Scalas are similar to the Diablos but with more bottom end, then it's going to be hard not to like them.
They are pretty big though & for all three the thing I really need to try & stay objective with is how suitable they will be in my space. Indeed this was one of the main factors that lead me towards the Diablos & away from the floorstaders in the first place.
I don't want to move from having too little bottom end to having too much (can you have too much!?). It's not as if I listen to pipe organ music & high volumes very often.
I've already played my opening gambit with the missus & didn't get cut off before I finished my spiel!!
should I start a new thread? or are you ok with me hijacking this one?
[/quote]
Tell us more about this opening gambit!
I'm sure we could all benefit from some pointers in this respect.
Mac
I can't be giving away secrets like that Mac!
Suffice to say that there was some coughing, a bit of mumbling, vague explanations that all men need to have hobbies & a quick change of subject over to her new hair-cut........ 8)
Suffice to say that there was some coughing, a bit of mumbling, vague explanations that all men need to have hobbies & a quick change of subject over to her new hair-cut........ 8)
Neuphonix said:How to enter a situation like this without falling victim to confirmation bias?
I'm intrigued by the Avalons after reading about Roby's decision. As said I don't know if they are 1st or 2nd model or how old they are.
I've never really liked the B&W sound to be honest, but they have a set there so why not? I'm open to having my mind changed.
If the Scalas are similar to the Diablos but with more bottom end, then it's going to be hard not to like them.
They are pretty big though & for all three the thing I really need to try & stay objective with is how suitable they will be in my space. Indeed this was one of the main factors that lead me towards the Diablos & away from the floorstaders in the first place.
I don't want to move from having too little bottom end to having too much (can you have too much!?). It's not as if I listen to pipe organ music & high volumes very often.
I've already played my opening gambit with the missus & didn't get cut off before I finished my spiel!!
should I start a new thread? or are you ok with me hijacking this one?
I think you will instinctively be drawn to what you like, which is what has got you this far....and demos like this, often don't take the expected direction.
As you rightly say, you will have to remain objective about what will work in your room. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the Focals can be tweaked (soundwise) to suit their placement.
The Avalons should be so good (provided they are not too old), that I am not at all sure you won't prefer them.
FWIW. I don't like the Diablos enough to own them, but I could live with the Scalas.....for me it was that big a difference, as somehow they sounded much better than, "the Diablos with more bottom end".
I am very happy for you to use my thread, but it would probably "catch the eye" of others and draw more comment if separate.
Cno
IMO as long as it is controlled, you cannot have too much bottom end. In fact if it is controlled, it never sounds like too much IMO. It only sounds like too much when boomy/woolly/uncontrolled.
Just to go back on the topic...I finally decided for an Akurate DS! It will come after rack is in place also...so I will be joining the club!
acalex said:Just to go back on the topic...I finally decided for an Akurate DS! It will come after rack is in place also...so I will be joining the club!
You've resisted for quite long enough! :shifty:
:cheers:
Cno
CnoEvil said:acalex said:Just to go back on the topic...I finally decided for an Akurate DS! It will come after rack is in place also...so I will be joining the club!
You've resisted for quite long enough! :shifty:
:cheers:
Cno
Yes...and I still have to resist till january to pick it up :doh:
You know that New Years eve would be much more relaxed if you didn't have to keep changing vinyl all night!
It's much easier to change tracks on your ipod with a beer in the other hand! 8)
It's much easier to change tracks on your ipod with a beer in the other hand! 8)
Helmut80 said:
It is my instinct to agree with you, especially as my listening tendancies lean towards bass heavy music. It's funny though, as my system has improved I've been forcing myself to spread my musical horizons (still can't quite come at Jazz music yet) & loving it. Rediscovering old bands & live music again just sounds so great.
Again though with the bottom end, my only reservation is the size of my room & the distance of my listening position. I'm sure my neighbours would have an opinon on the matter as well.
When I demoed the Diablos against the Electra1038be floor standers one of the things that struck me was the definition & control in the bass. They certainly didn't go as low, but I heard more nuance. Could just be my bias again :?
Back to the DS subject, has anybody been reading that thread about the petition for HD music? I just jumped on & signed up thinking that it was a no brainer. The guy who started it has been copping a hiding about various things including the exact technical nature of his petition. So I've been getting updates as he has changed various things & he sent me this link the other day
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1019661&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#1019661&utm_source=supporter_message&utm_medium=email
Very interesting stuff. I suppose I had blindly accepted that24bit was always going to be superior (of course dependant on the quality of the original master). Learnt a lot, some of it went over my head, but was interesting to discover more about this subject.
Neuphonix said:
I was speaking to my local dealer today....and if after your demo, you much prefer the Scalas (once you go Focal, nothing else will do), but feel they will overwhelm your room, they said the Viva is exceptional (and only a little more than the Diablos), and is a happy medium between the two.....if you can live with the looks.
Now, how did it go?
It was a funny day, ups & downs.
When I arrived we spent some time talking about exactly what I was looking for, budget, trade in etc.
The Avalons turned out to be the mark1 and over 20 years old. he said that while they were great speakers he didn't fell that they would suit my musical tastes & had some reservations about the age of the speaker. I think the fact that they were such big speakers & up on a different level of the shop & that he didn't want to drag them down into the listening room for no reason was also a factor! So they were scratched off the list.
Gave them a USb stick with a variety of files, but they couldn't seem to get them onto their network to play. So eventually after some mucking around I suggested using one of their IT guys laptop & airplayed to the Akurate instead. Seriously, I had to tell them how to make their system play?
Anyway, once things got up & running we started with the 802Ds.
Amplifier was the Griffin Diablo integrated.
Straight away I wasn't all that impressed. Certainly much more bottom end than my Diablos, but nowhere near the definition. And the midrange was so in your face, but not in a pleasant way & lacked clarity. Don't get me wrong, they are a good speaker & if I hadn't listened to anything else.
Then switched to the Scalas. Whooooo. Everything I love about the Diablos & then some! Such nuance & musicality in the bottom end, midrange was crystal clear. These were in another league. Didn't matter what we threw at them they handled it. Dance music, big meaty bass. Soft vocals, nice & refined. Blues/rock, lots of energy. They were physically much bigger than I had imaginged from the specs. the plinth adds a lot to their height & foot print. I sort of felt that asthetically they would be too big for my room (although I did like the style/look). But for the sound & extra depth it is something I could work around.
As much as I tried not to go there with preconceieved ideas, it seemed to be another of those moments where I couldn't wipe the goofy smile off my face. Have had a few of these this year, probably not the best negotiating stategy.
So then we got talking numbers & this is where things went downhill. he had given me a ballpark figure on the phone which was managable & I'm thinking cool I'm just going to do this straight away. All of the sudden this figure doubles! His reasoning was that standmounts are a hard sell for him & so his tradein figure has to be a lot lower than he had thought to make it worth his while. So this sort of brings the moment to an abrupt halt. TBH if he had given me this number earlier I probably wouldn't have even gone. I tell him I'll have a think about it. The Scalas have been sitting there for around 6 months now so I'm gambling that if I sit tight they will move just to get rid of them. Adding to this is the fact that they are big sellers of Wilson (the guy who traded in the Scalas swapped them for a set of Sophias). So potential customers will usually do a side by side with the Sophias.
I'm driving home feeling a little deflated to say the least, having been ready to pull the trigger on the spot to not! Thinking about the Diablos & have I made a grave mistake? Get home & put the music on, yes they sound great, but now having heard the Scalas I know what is missing. Is it worse to have loved & lost.....
Then I start pondering about how to get my sub working with the hi-fi & it strikes me that the Primo has RCA outputs as well as balanced. So plug the JL-F110 in via RCA & play around. What a difference. All of the sudden there is warmth & bottom end. I'm not going to say that it is as good as the scalas, certainly not the same definition & am still playing around with the sub setting to improve the integration. The F110 isn't the biggest sub going around, but it is fast & tight. So this has given me a lot of what I felt was missing & at zero cost. I can certainly live with it for as long as it takes the dealer to change his mind!
Only possible downside is that eventually if I stay with the sub option I will have to buy another one. Still, this is cheaper than the Scalas & will add to the HT side of things as well.
So a day that had some ups, downs & then ups again.
A note on the Vivas, the reason that I'm even considering the Scalas is that they have them at a trade in price. A pair of Vivas retails at more, so guessing if they had to order them in new they'd be more expensive.
The dealer was suggesting that the Sophias were definitley his recommendation, but we didn't go there because of my budget! That and the fact that I could never have a pair of Darleks in my living room!
When I arrived we spent some time talking about exactly what I was looking for, budget, trade in etc.
The Avalons turned out to be the mark1 and over 20 years old. he said that while they were great speakers he didn't fell that they would suit my musical tastes & had some reservations about the age of the speaker. I think the fact that they were such big speakers & up on a different level of the shop & that he didn't want to drag them down into the listening room for no reason was also a factor! So they were scratched off the list.
Gave them a USb stick with a variety of files, but they couldn't seem to get them onto their network to play. So eventually after some mucking around I suggested using one of their IT guys laptop & airplayed to the Akurate instead. Seriously, I had to tell them how to make their system play?
Anyway, once things got up & running we started with the 802Ds.
Amplifier was the Griffin Diablo integrated.
Straight away I wasn't all that impressed. Certainly much more bottom end than my Diablos, but nowhere near the definition. And the midrange was so in your face, but not in a pleasant way & lacked clarity. Don't get me wrong, they are a good speaker & if I hadn't listened to anything else.
Then switched to the Scalas. Whooooo. Everything I love about the Diablos & then some! Such nuance & musicality in the bottom end, midrange was crystal clear. These were in another league. Didn't matter what we threw at them they handled it. Dance music, big meaty bass. Soft vocals, nice & refined. Blues/rock, lots of energy. They were physically much bigger than I had imaginged from the specs. the plinth adds a lot to their height & foot print. I sort of felt that asthetically they would be too big for my room (although I did like the style/look). But for the sound & extra depth it is something I could work around.
As much as I tried not to go there with preconceieved ideas, it seemed to be another of those moments where I couldn't wipe the goofy smile off my face. Have had a few of these this year, probably not the best negotiating stategy.
So then we got talking numbers & this is where things went downhill. he had given me a ballpark figure on the phone which was managable & I'm thinking cool I'm just going to do this straight away. All of the sudden this figure doubles! His reasoning was that standmounts are a hard sell for him & so his tradein figure has to be a lot lower than he had thought to make it worth his while. So this sort of brings the moment to an abrupt halt. TBH if he had given me this number earlier I probably wouldn't have even gone. I tell him I'll have a think about it. The Scalas have been sitting there for around 6 months now so I'm gambling that if I sit tight they will move just to get rid of them. Adding to this is the fact that they are big sellers of Wilson (the guy who traded in the Scalas swapped them for a set of Sophias). So potential customers will usually do a side by side with the Sophias.
I'm driving home feeling a little deflated to say the least, having been ready to pull the trigger on the spot to not! Thinking about the Diablos & have I made a grave mistake? Get home & put the music on, yes they sound great, but now having heard the Scalas I know what is missing. Is it worse to have loved & lost.....
Then I start pondering about how to get my sub working with the hi-fi & it strikes me that the Primo has RCA outputs as well as balanced. So plug the JL-F110 in via RCA & play around. What a difference. All of the sudden there is warmth & bottom end. I'm not going to say that it is as good as the scalas, certainly not the same definition & am still playing around with the sub setting to improve the integration. The F110 isn't the biggest sub going around, but it is fast & tight. So this has given me a lot of what I felt was missing & at zero cost. I can certainly live with it for as long as it takes the dealer to change his mind!
Only possible downside is that eventually if I stay with the sub option I will have to buy another one. Still, this is cheaper than the Scalas & will add to the HT side of things as well.
So a day that had some ups, downs & then ups again.
A note on the Vivas, the reason that I'm even considering the Scalas is that they have them at a trade in price. A pair of Vivas retails at more, so guessing if they had to order them in new they'd be more expensive.
The dealer was suggesting that the Sophias were definitley his recommendation, but we didn't go there because of my budget! That and the fact that I could never have a pair of Darleks in my living room!
Over here:
The Vivas + Stands are £16229 (£9397)*;
The Diablos + Stands are £8799;
The Scalas are £19 000
* Sorry, this is for one speaker :doh: It's £16 229 for two + stands!
My dealer said that in a smaller room, they might even be preferable over the Scalas.....They have started using them in preference to the Scalas at shows!
The downside is, that on their stands, they are taller than the Scalas.
The Vivas + Stands are £16229 (£9397)*;
The Diablos + Stands are £8799;
The Scalas are £19 000
* Sorry, this is for one speaker :doh: It's £16 229 for two + stands!
My dealer said that in a smaller room, they might even be preferable over the Scalas.....They have started using them in preference to the Scalas at shows!
The downside is, that on their stands, they are taller than the Scalas.
I thought that sounded too good to be true. Of course you would then have to buy one more for your centre as well!
Happy to sit tight for the time being, hopefully they don't move & the dealer gets fed up & just wants to move them on. I might call him every few months & keep dangling the carrot!
Will give me some time to live with the sub. At least this time if I do go for a second listen I'll have a new perspective when comparing the Scalas to the Diablo/sub combination.
Happy to sit tight for the time being, hopefully they don't move & the dealer gets fed up & just wants to move them on. I might call him every few months & keep dangling the carrot!
Will give me some time to live with the sub. At least this time if I do go for a second listen I'll have a new perspective when comparing the Scalas to the Diablo/sub combination.
Neuphonix said:
I think the dealer saw your enthusiasm and upped the price....surely he'd have known from the start if the Diablos would sell well or not! Either that or he was trying to push you in the direction of the Sophias.
CnoEvil said:
Yup, time to play hard to get Neuphonix. Don't call too soon. Make yourself rare. Visit the competition across the street.
Reading up about the Gryphon Diablo, I think it combined with the 802Ds, sounds like my personal idea of "Audio Hell"......It should have been quite a relief to get back to the MF AMS.
Game on!
I think that the fact they sell the Wilsons should work to my advantage.
He seemed to rate the Sophias over the Scalas, said they were one of their best sellers. Apparently the only reason that the Scalas are there is that they were indeed traded for a set of Sophias.
So you would think that if he is right, prospective customers would be listen to both. Assuming that it's not a decision made solely for budgetary reason then the Scalas may sit there for a while. We'll see
I think that the fact they sell the Wilsons should work to my advantage.
He seemed to rate the Sophias over the Scalas, said they were one of their best sellers. Apparently the only reason that the Scalas are there is that they were indeed traded for a set of Sophias.
So you would think that if he is right, prospective customers would be listen to both. Assuming that it's not a decision made solely for budgetary reason then the Scalas may sit there for a while. We'll see
CnoEvil said:
We did discuss the amp and the expected difference to the MF. More power, but not that same warm A class sound. So if the Scalas sounded that good on the griffin imagine how much better they would be with the MF.
I was sort of surprised about my immediate reaction to the 802s. I really wasn't all that impressed, the Scalas completely wiped the floor with them, but then given the price difference I guess they should have.
Neuphonix said:
If he'd done the demo with ADS + Primo + 35P, somehow, as if on instinct, your credit card would have magically appeared in his machine! :shifty:
As a long shot, can you get to hear some Kef Refs 205/2, or even 207/2 (which are closer to the Scalas) on the end of your system.....then you will be hearing my system, only better. If nothing comes out of it, you can always use it as a bargaining chip. The Refs also have room boundary compensation for treble and bass.
The B&Ws are not my favorite speaker, and that Diamond tweeter is very revealing, so I would't match it with a powerful, but slightly cold and mechanical sounding amp. IMO. Its bass is more ponderous than that of the Focals. As always, it's all in the matching.
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