The Apex Club

[RickyDeg]

Thanks for the respons guys! I am certain my dealer together with the Monitor Audio distributor in my country will fix this even though the warranty period have passed.

Whatever the fault is with the unit I hope no other owner will have the same issue. But seeing as the electronics in powered subwoofers are not unheard of failing it probably will. The thing I find so weird is the AW-12 still acknowledges receiving a signal by turning itself on (hence the auto turn-on function with green LED on the back) so it's not all dead, but there's just no sound...

I'll report back

 

[ellisdj]

sounds like amplifier module problem to me

 

[michael hoy]

Hmm I was thinking of buying an AW-12 this week as well, and swapping out my PV1D so my system is all Apex, but Ricky you have just put me off!

There are more out there same age or older and still working fine.

i would not let one breakdown put you off.

 

[RickyDeg]

sounds like amplifier module problem to me

Could be! My dealer said today that some internal cable malfunction could also be the problem. I'll know soon enough!

Anyway, hope everyone is enjoying their summer so far!

 

[buzz_lightclick]

Hmm I was thinking of buying an AW-12 this week as well, and swapping out my PV1D so my system is all Apex, but Ricky you have just put me off!

There are more out there same age or older and still working fine.

i would not let one breakdown put you off.

It's not just the breakdown, I am slightly concerned I would be downgrading. Ideally I would be able to test each sub individually in my apartment so I can go with what sounds best to me, but I don't think that would be possible. The AW12 would be a better aesthetic match than the PV1D, but I would miss the onboard DSP of the PV1D. However I have read comments from people on here who have compared the AW12 to the PV1 and preferred the AW12, though the What Hi Fi review prefers the PV1/PV1D.

 

[gunny]

It's not just the breakdown, I am slightly concerned I would be downgrading. Ideally I would be able to test each sub individually in my apartment so I can go with what sounds best to me, but I don't think that would be possible. The AW12 would be a better aesthetic match than the PV1D, but I would miss the onboard DSP of the PV1D. However I have read comments from people on here who have compared the AW12 to the PV1 and preferred the AW12, though the What Hi Fi review prefers the PV1/PV1D.

And besides the aesthetic part, why would you be interested to move to the AW12?

There are far better subs available at that kind of money, which I've repeatedly mentioned over here.

In my eyes the AW12 and even the PV1 are too expensive for the performance they offer (the PV1D might be something else, but still...).

 

[buzz_lightclick]

It's not just the breakdown, I am slightly concerned I would be downgrading. Ideally I would be able to test each sub individually in my apartment so I can go with what sounds best to me, but I don't think that would be possible. The AW12 would be a better aesthetic match than the PV1D, but I would miss the onboard DSP of the PV1D. However I have read comments from people on here who have compared the AW12 to the PV1 and preferred the AW12, though the What Hi Fi review prefers the PV1/PV1D.

And besides the aesthetic part, why would you be interested to move to the AW12?

There are far better subs available at that kind of money, which I've repeatedly mentioned over here.

In my eyes the AW12 and even the PV1 are too expensive for the performance they offer (the PV1D might be something else, but still...).

I wouldn't be interested in the AW12 at RRP, but had the chance to buy one for around £550 as new. I'd then sell on my PV1D for around £800, and so free up some cash to spend on other bits and bobs!

I am a bit limited on space so couldn't consider something like a BK Monolith or an SVS sub, and the main reason for getting an AW12 apart from size and aesthetics would be for the integration between sub and sats. The PV1D isn't easy to set up and I always wonder if it would be better to have the dedicated sub for my system.

 

[draenor]

I'm inches away from rightfully being part of this owners thread. I'm looking to get 4 A10 satellites and an A40 center combined with a BK Electronic XLS200-FF sub.

1. Anyone by chance has an idea if the black Apex is somewhat similar in color to the BK black gloss sub or if the black non-gloss would be a better match?

2. Receiver, I'm trying to get away a bit cheaper than some of the recommendations I've seen in this thread. I'm primarily thinking of the similarly priced

a) Yamaha RX-A1020

b) Onkyo TX-NR818

Given the lower power consumption and heat dissipation from the Yamaha (and that it seems to "soon" offer spotify integration) it seems favourable to me. Any thoughts?

3. Room layout. Unfortunately the soffa cannot be aligned with the screen, see attached image.

a) Placing the two rear a10s on stands, the others on the not-completely aligned tv bench, as illustrated

b) Placing the two rear a10s on stands, left front a10 on the higher desk and the right on a stand

The former is more sleak looking. But will the height and offset difference (for half the sofa) be a big issue?

4. The two rear a10s will be close to the wall. Should they point straight towards the tv, soffa, or towards a center point in the room?

Thanks,
Johan

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey Johan :wave: Glad we can soon welcome you to the club!

I can offer a little input on your last question in terms of room layout since your situation is slightly similar to mine, except that I thankfully can align my sofa with the screen ontop the a/v cabinet (view my system thread in my signature for pictures of the front and the back of my room). So my suggestion would be a) if you value a sleek look.

My front trio of speakers are placed directly ontop the a/v cabinet (which is 48 cm in height, compared to your 40 cm) and that still places them lower than ear height when seated which is not ideal. My rear pair of A10's are placed on the stands, on either side of and slightly behind the soffa. The height of these stands puts the A10's at ideal height. I find that this mix actually works well in my case regardless of the compromise. The rear pair can at times sound more 'directional' because they are placed higher up, but I have pointed mine towards the tv, not directly toward the listeningposition on the sofa. This provides a nice enveloping surround soundscape, without taking over completely. Because my room is rather small all speakers are placed fairly close to one another and there is no "gap" between the speakers as sounds pan between them, it's pretty smooth.

If you are going to use the provided table-top stands for the front pair of A10's then you can pivot them upwards slightly. I am not using this however, since I dislike their design and since there is none for the A40 it would look silly. But if you use any other form of solution try to make sure they tilt upward slightly. Because of their rounded corner shape that can be tricky though. I have placed small flat isolation feet directly under mine, but sadly they don't allow any tilt they just help with resonance. Still works well in my room though.

You'll simply have to experiment with your system in your room to achieve the best balance between front and back. You'll also need to experiment heavily with the automated room correction/EQ system in the receiver you choose (if you plan on using that). Make sure you re-run a new calibration with each change you make of the speakers and/or the room itself as it can sometimes have a dramatic effect on the end-result. However, this is impossible to predict and depends on the room.

 

[gosalh]

Hey Ricky

Good to hear from you! So sorry about the sick AW12 i can imagine how you felt when it broke down. But im sure it will get rectified very soon.

I have to say the Apex continue to impress me with new Bluray releases, for some reason it seems to sound more and more awesome picking up every subtle sound within the soundtrack! Still happy with my setup. Watched the new Oz movie, which made the system rumble with punchy sound.

Cheers

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey Gosahl :wave: Hope you're well and making the most of the summer! NOT by staying in watching too many blu-rays... hehe

Thank you for the concern about my subwoofer. It does suck! But keepings fingers crossed. If memory serves me correctly you had a defect A40, right? Or was that another one of our fellow members I'm confusing you with? If so, forgive me hehe. Anyway, I do not yet know the problem involved but I'll report back just for the sake of feedback.

Glad your Apex system is still kicking ass in your home cinema! It's awesome when a speakersystem can continue to impress long after the initial impressions have passed and you kinda settle with them. Mine does too, although I haven't watched much blu-ray at all lately, mostly listened to music and had a good time with that. I am about to upgrade my electronic-section soon, so stay tuned. Might go pre/pro to really push Apex to the limit, but don't know yet. Not descided about height channels yet either, it would depend on what electronics I choose. But I bet yours still bring lots of excitement to the table? Have you experienced any downsides in the height DSP-processing at all?

 

[gosalh]

Hey Ricky, yeah i had a problem with the A40 a while back but i managed to get it replaced for free as it was under warranty.

Yes the apex still impresses me to this day, i mostly use it for movies and it still amazes me with something new. For the heights im sticking with Dolby Pllz. Ive fine tuned it to sound better through the Denon's Dolby Height settings. Audyssey DSX spreads the sound out too much from all channels and the center doesnt have any focus and clarity compared to Dolby height.

I watched Jack Reacher, the end scene with the rainfall sounded very realistic with the heights singing away but not over doing it or clouding the center channel. Also bass sounds better with Dolby heights.

 

[draenor]

Thanks for your thorough input RickyDeg! I'll aim for the sleek layout and have my ways with a few boxes to compare whether there's a significant difference or not altering the positioning. Good thing experimentation doesn't cost a dime

To the question that matters. I was inclined to try the Yamaha RX-A1020, though it turns out Yamaha RX-A820 has most of it's features in a size which fits my furniture.. and 5kg less deadweight.. Imagine that.

The RX-A820 is rated at 100w while the recommended Amplifier requirements are 50-200w according to Apex acciording to MA. Am I making a mistake getting a receiver at this class?!? :wall:

 

[MUSICRAFT]

To the question that matters. I was inclined to try the Yamaha RX-A1020, though it turns out Yamaha RX-A820 has most of it's features in a size which fits my furniture.. and 5kg less deadweight.. Imagine that.

The RX-A820 is rated at 100w while the recommended Amplifier requirements are 50-200w according to Apex acciording to MA. Am I making a mistake getting a receiver at this class?!? :wall:

Hi draenor

Even though the RX-A820 has most of the features of the RX-A1020 however the RX-A820 doesn't perform quite as well as the RX-A1020. The main reason for this is that the RX-A1020's superior quality of power enables the RX-A1020 to grip and drive speakers more effectively then the RX-A820 can. Have a look at the internals through the top covers of both models and you'll see the superior power supply, circuit layout and the overall build quality of the RX-A1020. The difference in clear to see and one that you can also hear.

Btw, both of the Yamaha amplifiers are perfectly capable of being paired with Apex speakers. Ultimately though the Apex speakers performance potential enables them to be partnered with even higher quality of components. To give you an idea our A10's and A40's are being used with an Anthem MRX 500, Plinius Odean and JL Audio Fathom f212. I watched Gangster Squad last Sunday. Gangster Squad has a robust soundtrack which the Apex speakers helped deliver with verve and power.

The RX-A1020 is worth the £150 premium.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey Ricky, yeah i had a problem with the A40 a while back but i managed to get it replaced for free as it was under warranty.

Yes the apex still impresses me to this day, i mostly use it for movies and it still amazes me with something new. For the heights im sticking with Dolby Pllz. Ive fine tuned it to sound better through the Denon's Dolby Height settings. Audyssey DSX spreads the sound out too much from all channels and the center doesnt have any focus and clarity compared to Dolby height.

I watched Jack Reacher, the end scene with the rainfall sounded very realistic with the heights singing away but not over doing it or clouding the center channel. Also bass sounds better with Dolby heights.

Interesting to hear your feedback on Dolby PLIIz vs. DSX. I've actually heard similar things from others aswell, where people say the former is the more natural sounding DSP mode. DTS Neo:X seems popular aswell. Fascinating how your bass sounds better with the Dolby version!

 

[draenor]

Excellent description and good answer to my question. Pricewise there's no big deal to me, but the larger model extends 5cm over the edge of my tv bench The Anthem MRX 500 would've been a candidate were it not for the price leap. I've deliberately held off getting a receiver for as long as possible, thus I have no previous experience to reference my quality expectations against.

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey again Johan! :wave:

As Rick pointed out about the Yamaha the more quality you put into driving these Apex the more they will reward you and show their capacity. These are quite thankful speakers in the sense that they give you more and more with ever step up the ladder that you take, which means your speakersystem will continue to "grow" if you update your electronics/cables etc down the line. I've demoed Apex with a broad variety of receivers now (both in the store and at home) and can tell a clear difference each time, which is very interesting. Sadly I've yet to find my personal replacement to the Denon receiver I've had since 2009. Several owners I know of have also moved to separate components with powerful mutlichannel amplifers (something I'm interested in at the moment) that squeeze every last drop of performance out of them. But as always, price and space plays a role here too... not to mention personal taste! Good luck with your choices and please come back and tell us how you are getting on (and maybe pictures of your finished set-up aswell?).

 

[draenor]

Hey!

perhaps I shouldn't shy away a better receiver - after all, I hate stressing a decision only having to upgrade at a later point. I'm in Sweden and it turns out those retailing the amplifiers doesn't necessarily have the Apex to demo with them.

None of the more expensive receivers seem to fit my furniture so I'll have to think up some creative solution to avoid having the thing stick out 5cm from the tv bench ..

I suppose i''ll start from scratch, narrowing down a list of candidates I picked up from here in roughly the same price categories (1) being premium and (2) a bit less coin.

(1) Yamaha RX-A3020 (-47cm depth and heavyweight, +good review)

(1) Pioneer SC-LX86 (-44cm depth, -bright?, +great reviews)

(1) Anthem MRX 500 (-seems to lack any mobile device support, +audio focus)

(2) SC-LX56 (-44cm depth, +great reviews)

(2) Marantz SR7005 (-review score?)

(2) Yamaha RX-A2020 (-47cm depth, why are all yamaha's beasts?!?)

(2) Denon AVR-X4000 (-relatively unknown/few vendors)

Sorry for laying it all out there, it serves also as a memory mapper for myself Currently, the Pioneer (LX56) feels slightly favoured..

Peripherals wise I will basically have my computer and the apex in the receiver only. 9.1 or even 7.1 won't be an issue.

 

[michael hoy]

Hey!

perhaps I shouldn't shy away a better receiver - after all, I hate stressing a decision only having to upgrade at a later point. I'm in Sweden and it turns out those retailing the amplifiers doesn't necessarily have the Apex to demo with them.

None of the more expensive receivers seem to fit my furniture so I'll have to think up some creative solution to avoid having the thing stick out 5cm from the tv bench ..

I suppose i''ll start from scratch, narrowing down a list of candidates I picked up from here in roughly the same price categories (1) being premium and (2) a bit less coin.

(1) Yamaha RX-A3020 (-47cm depth and heavyweight, +good review)

(1) Pioneer SC-LX86 (-44cm depth, -bright?, +great reviews)

(1) Anthem MRX 500 (-seems to lack any mobile device support, +audio focus)

(2) SC-LX56 (-44cm depth, +great reviews)

(2) Marantz SR7005 (-review score?)

(2) Yamaha RX-A2020 (-47cm depth, why are all yamaha's beasts?!?)

(2) Denon AVR-X4000 (-relatively unknown/few vendors)

Sorry for laying it all out there, it serves also as a memory mapper for myself Currently, the Pioneer (LX56) feels slightly favoured..

Peripherals wise I will basically have my computer and the apex in the receiver only. 9.1 or even 7.1 won't be an issue.

Hi,

They are all good choices, the Denon as you say is an unknown at this point but are usually very good.

Don't rush into it, my current choice would be the Pioneer based on my experience with the 85, people have said that this is bright but I do not find it to be.

There is an option in the menu to reduce the high frequency if need be.

I know others will go for the Denon or Yamaha, again personal choice. I do not rely totally on the auto set up and spent alot of time tweaking to my satisfaction.

The Apex will work with most speakers.

Good luck on picking the (Pioneer) right one for you

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey igen Johan - jag befinner mig i Sverige också! hehe

You are correct that the number of dealers selling Apex here are a bit limited, but in Stockholm and Göteborg there are a handful who also sell some of those receiver brands. It's ashamed your a/v cabinet is the thing that seem to limit you at the moment, but I know all about this as mine does too, although not in depth. I can't have electronics that give off too much heat since my cabinet has a closed front, and if I move to separates from an a receiver I'm also stuck with choosing units that are not too high or there'll be no room (not willing to give up my a/v cabinet or change my decor).

I would suggest you pick 2-3 receivers you are most interested in then choose dealer very carefully where you'll have a chance to audition the unit at home with a return-policy if you do not like it. Most serious dealers in Sweden offer this! Sometimes 14 days, other times up to 30 days (Elgiganten, t ex). I've used this myself a couple times, and it's been great. The dealer does of course take a risk and suffer a bit if you return a unit, but hopefully they will have a very pleased customer who will purchase through them and rely on them for future business. That's how I look at it. Other times they might have actual used demo units you can borrow for a weekend or so. Would depend on what is convenient for you. No one can tell you which of those brands will suit you and your taste - only YOU can do that.

 

[draenor]

Thanks for taking the time providing such excellent advice. I'm down to the Pioneer/Yamaha brands. There's a dealer hosting both the Pioneer and Apex combo; I'm probably going for that and se whether I'll be able to find a Yamaha to audition at home. I'll return with a photo or two when time is due!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

The Anthem MRX 500 would've been a candidate were it not for the price leap.

Hi draenor

Don't discount the excellent MRX 300 as Apex speakers also form an excellent match with the MRX 300

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[ric71]

Hello guys.

Thought I would check in and Ricky you still haven't upgraded your receiver yet.

Re Ricks comments, and I know you didn't get on with Anthem Ricky, but I can assure you it is the best receiver on the list for pure audio quality. If you don't need the Internet radio etc which you can get using Sonos or similar then the MRX 300 is a no brainier. ARC room EQ will outperform any offerings from Pioneer or Yamaha. If Anthem doesn't float your boat see if you can trace down the just discontinued brilliant Onkyo 818 with its XT32 room EQ. :dance:

 

[RickyDeg]

No, that's right Ric, I still haven't! It's been so hard to choose what to investigate next! :wall:

I will in all likelihood go for separates, possibly NuForce pre/pro, or something completely unorthodox. But I have to get a demo set for home testing first. And as you know, when I tested the Anthem MRX 700 it really didn't impress me personally at all, surprisingly enough. But many ppl love those!

Hope everything is well with you and that you're enjoying your M&K's!

 

[draenor]

First day of demoing, no apex but did try the Marants SR7007 and Pioneer LX86. Both were great, but I still have no idea how they'd perform with the Apex. I suppose the only fear is the Pioneer being bright with the Apex, though maybe that's easy to tweak? I also hate dealers, one wouldn't sell the Pioneer with the Apex while the other wouldn't sell anything but.