The Apex Club

[Julian_b]

Just love my new Apex set - the integration of the sound between the satellites and the superb sub woofer is remarkable.

Edward at Precision Audio (Adelphi Centre) in Singapore has been fabulous with his service and the price seemed pretty fair too - equates to approx 2300 quid which given the shipping costs to Singapore, though lower sales tax here, is pretty good.

I've been thinking about upgrading my receiver and have been looking at the Pioneer Receiver range here - SC LX 83 is pricey at 2000 quid, whereas the VS LX53 looks cheap at 900 quid approx. Does anyone have a view as to whether the LX 53 would be up to the task of the Apex's - is the LX 83 worth double the price? I currently have an old (5 years) Cambridge 640R that cost 400 quid back then.

 

[michael hoy]

Hi,

I cannot comment on the 53, but IMHO would not go below the LX73 level to get the best out of these speakers.

Other posters may have other ideas.

 

[RickyDeg]

It's clear from my own set and every audition I've experienced that the Apex speakers are very "rewarding" in that you will befinfit largely from upgrades of the surrounding electronics. My Denon receiver is good with these speakers, but I've heard them with more expensive and capable units and they just keep on improving. If I were you I'd definitely go with the Pioneer SC-LX83, if that is an availabul option for you. Also, as many others have pointed out, the Yamaha RX-V3067 is a great match, sonically. However, apart from your budget, your own perference in matching tonality will determin which is best. I do however think that the SC-LX83 offers other advantages over current receivers from Denon and Yamaha (thouroughly advanced room-correction MCAAC, high-quality 32-bit DAC's, possibility of jitter-free connection via HDMI through PQLS, etc.etc). Me being a Denon-fan myself I've considered changing to this model since it does the Apex justice in so many respects, and they match incredibly well together. Sadly it's not in my current budget, lol......

Good luck receiver-hunting Julian, and enjoy your Apex. They truly are sensational speakers!

 

[Anonymous]

Julian, WHF have suggested the 53 would be a good match for the Apex, but like others I would suggest the 73, I found little difference between it and the 83 when I had them both on home demo, but my room is only 6.3 x 3.8, but I do listen to movies at reference level. FWIW I've switched the EQ settings off and the Apex seem even better.

 

[gosalh]

Guys

Just need some quick advice

I was listening to Internet radio yesterday through my receiver and on the kiss fm radio channel there was a track playing which created a fairly loud crackling sound which sounded like the a40's tweeter going ballistic. It happened a couple times, should I be concerned about permanent damage this may have caused? I did a test afterwards and the centre channel seemed ok.

 

[RickyDeg]

Running-in. Been asking this before and have read several posts about it. But, in terms of running the Apex speakers in, many have said that they require several hundreds of hours. I've heard everything from between 400 to 500 hrs from alot of people. Mine have still only had about 90 hrs, but having read the statement below from Monitor Audio's own official website I'm naturally curious whether or not I should expect further improvements or if they've already reached their full potential by now?

"Running in is a very important stage of owning a pair/set of speakers. If the speakers are driven too hard straight out of the box, it can cause permanent damage, much like running in a car engine. The average running in time varies across the ranges from 50 - 60 hours for Bronze up to 70 - 100 hours for Platinum."

So in other words the manufacturer claims no more than 100 hrs average for their top-of-the-line speakers, so I would assume Apex is somewhere in the middle there? Perhaps one should expect that after 60-80 hrs they are actually fully run-in? I'm wondering why so many users say says it takes 3-4 times longer?

Anyone?

 

[ric71]

Hi Ricky,

IMO they seem to get even smoother after several hundred hours of use. Whether they do or not in reality does not matter. Its not often you own a product that keeps on getting better

Maybe I and several op's just enjoy their sound the more we listen to them.

How are the twin subs going?

ric

 

[RickyDeg]

Hi Ricky,

IMO they seem to get even smoother after several hundred hours of use. Whether they do or not in reality does not matter. Its not often you own a product that keeps on getting better

Maybe I and several op's just enjoy their sound the more we listen to them.

How are the twin subs going?

ric

HaHa! I hear that!

I look forward to hopefully sharing your experience of a product that keeps on getting better! What a catch, if so! lol

The dual subwoofers definitely improve upon things. I started out playing alot of music last week, and like I mentioned before it was great. This weekend I ran several Blu-ray's and the low frequency presence is pretty massive in my room. Well-controlled, but massive. It's simply alot more even and spread out than before, while that aspect was also good begin with. In terms of running-in, I've definitely noticed this on the AW12 aswell, apart from the other speakers. Did you notice that with your MJ Acoustics? BTW, did you test the AW12 any time at all? Was it not up to par, compared to your current one, in your opinion?

 

[ric71]

Sounds good I will get MJ sub number 2 next year,want a new blu ray prob Oppo 95 so saving for that,looking forward to WHF review of blu ray players at the end of the month.
I already had the MJ and think it is fantastic for music.Have not heard the Apex sub but from what I have heard it is great.
Also don't think I could risk having that forward facing uncovered driver in my room with my inquisitive 22 month old son!!

 

[RickyDeg]

Sounds good I will get MJ sub number 2 next year,want a new blu ray prob Oppo 95 so saving for that,looking forward to WHF review of blu ray players at the end of the month. I already had the MJ and think it is fantastic for music.Have not heard the Apex sub but from what I have heard it is great. Also don't think I could risk having that forward facing uncovered driver in my room with my inquisitive 22 month old son!!

That's perfectly understandable! Pity they haven't made a protective grille to use with the AW12. I bet the MJ sub is great though, since that is their speciality. I like the AW12 for several reasons - first the sound, naturally, and especially how excellently it blends with the satellites (nearly no gap whatsoever!), then it's size and looks - it's different, no doubt, but so is the entire Apex series. I think it's rather sexy (dare I say 'cute'?) and melts wonderfully into my decor. Good luck with the Oppo. They are brilliant. A friend of mine just pre-ordered his 95 and I'll be able to test it myself when I can borrow his However, my next upgrade personally would have to be a new receiver or pre/pro combo. Hmmm.

 

[RickyDeg]

BTW, ric71, I aim on testing the Antimode 8033c opon your previous recommendation for the subwoofers. I'm curious to see (hear) the improvements it can bring! (just read some great comments on it)

 

[ric71]

Give the Antimode a go it transformed my bass. Fantastic little eq.As Frank Harvey hi fi said eq the sub first with the Antimode then if you use eq on your receiver re run it after the Antimode.

 

[Julian_b]

I'd just like to say thanks for the helpful advice on which receiver to partner my Apex's. In combination with reading a lot of other comments too gives me a lot to think about and to check for any deals too in Singapore.

Hope everyone keeps enjoying their Apex set ups and looking to get the best out of them!

Upgrades...expensive, but fun!

 

[wireman]

I don't wish to diminish in any way the enthusiasm for the Apex being liberally sprayed around on this thread, but...

I'm a qualified electrician with electrical test equipment: Has anybody else noticed that the Apex subwoofer kicks out a ferocious amount of electrical crap back into the mains supply? If your AVR, blu-ray player, sky-box or plasma is connected anywhere near to the same electrical socket as your Apex AW-12 subwoofer, it's probably best to try and move it as far away as possible... ideally to the next county, that's how bad the electrical noise being generated from the switch-mode power supply in it really is. I do not exaggerate. Does this matter? Yes it does, because this electrical noise is being thrown back into the same mains supply as your other components are using, and possibly (very likely) adversely affecting their performance.

FWIW, I've tried various Russ Andrews, RS, Pure-AV and Isotek shunt filters across it's power supply, and the test equipment shows that none of them individually kill the electrical noise totally dead, but a Russ Andrews Mini-Purifier does the best job from the small arsenal of noise suppressors I have here.

With my set-up (Denon 4810 AVR/2500 Bluray/Apex 5.1/Panny Plasma - none of which themselves generate any mains noise), I've noticed a tangible improvement in both picture and sound quality (principally from the AVR) since having changed where the AW-12 draws its' power from (now the other side of the room), and separately suppressing the subwoofers mains supply with a combination of mains filters.

Of course, it may just be my particular AW-12, so I'd be interested to know if anybody else has noticed any change in their AV systems' performance as a whole depending upon where and how your AW-12 subwoofer happens to be plugged into the mains?

 

[RickyDeg]

I don't wish to diminish in any way the enthusiasm for the Apex being liberally sprayed around on this thread, but...

I'm a qualified electrician with electrical test equipment: Has anybody else noticed that the Apex subwoofer kicks out a ferocious amount of electrical crap back into the mains supply? If your AVR, blu-ray player, sky-box or plasma is connected anywhere near to the same electrical socket as your Apex AW-12 subwoofer, it's probably best to try and move it as far away as possible... ideally to the next county, that's how bad the electrical noise being generated from the switch-mode power supply in it really is. I do not exaggerate. Does this matter? Yes it does, because this electrical noise is being thrown back into the same mains supply as your other components are using, and possibly (very likely) adversely affecting their performance.

FWIW, I've tried various Russ Andrews, RS, Pure-AV and Isotek shunt filters across it's power supply, and the test equipment shows that none of them individually kill the electrical noise totally dead, but a Russ Andrews Mini-Purifier does the best job from the small arsenal of noise suppressors I have here.

With my set-up (Denon 4810 AVR/2500 Bluray/Apex 5.1/Panny Plasma - none of which themselves generate any mains noise), I've noticed a tangible improvement in both picture and sound quality (principally from the AVR) since having changed where the AW-12 draws its' power from (now the other side of the room), and separately suppressing the subwoofers mains supply with a combination of mains filters.

Of course, it may just be my particular AW-12, so I'd be interested to know if anybody else has noticed any change in their AV systems' performance as a whole depending upon where and how your AW-12 subwoofer happens to be plugged into the mains?

I'm personally not experiencing any such negative side-effect in my set-up, no matter if my AW12 is plugged through my ISOTEK AQUARIUS (with other equipment) or to an isolated separate walloutlet. The advantage of using the ISOTEK AQUARIUS is a slightly more refined LFE reproduction, so I don't bother with the independent walloutlet.

Your situation sounds a tad odd. Curious. Hope you get a chance to solve it, whatever it is.

 

[bigboss]

I don't wish to diminish in any way the enthusiasm for the Apex being liberally sprayed around on this thread, but...

I'm a qualified electrician with electrical test equipment: Has anybody else noticed that the Apex subwoofer kicks out a ferocious amount of electrical crap back into the mains supply? If your AVR, blu-ray player, sky-box or plasma is connected anywhere near to the same electrical socket as your Apex AW-12 subwoofer, it's probably best to try and move it as far away as possible... ideally to the next county, that's how bad the electrical noise being generated from the switch-mode power supply in it really is. I do not exaggerate. Does this matter? Yes it does, because this electrical noise is being thrown back into the same mains supply as your other components are using, and possibly (very likely) adversely affecting their performance.

FWIW, I've tried various Russ Andrews, RS, Pure-AV and Isotek shunt filters across it's power supply, and the test equipment shows that none of them individually kill the electrical noise totally dead, but a Russ Andrews Mini-Purifier does the best job from the small arsenal of noise suppressors I have here.

With my set-up (Denon 4810 AVR/2500 Bluray/Apex 5.1/Panny Plasma - none of which themselves generate any mains noise), I've noticed a tangible improvement in both picture and sound quality (principally from the AVR) since having changed where the AW-12 draws its' power from (now the other side of the room), and separately suppressing the subwoofers mains supply with a combination of mains filters.

Of course, it may just be my particular AW-12, so I'd be interested to know if anybody else has noticed any change in their AV systems' performance as a whole depending upon where and how your AW-12 subwoofer happens to be plugged into the mains?

I have no problems with my AW12, nor have I heard any issues regarding performance surrounding the AW12.

 

[wireman]

Thanks for the replies: I haven't heard of any issues previously either - I chanced on this by accident. The electrical interference generated by the AW12 is comparatively minor to start with (when first switched on), but seems to get progressively worse the 'hotter' it gets (the harder/longer you drive it) to the point that it generates more interference than some washing machines I've measured in the past. This isn't speculation as I'm actually measuring it. Switching the subwoofer off stops the interference immediately. Running it from a socket with separate suppression some distance away from the main kit greatly reduces the interference measured at the sockets feeding the AVR/Bluray etc. I'll keep investigating to see if there's some other contributory cause.

 

[Frank Harvey]

With the numerous amount of Apex packages that we've supplied, not one AW12 has come back to us, nor has any user raised any issues. Maybe yours is a faulty one.

 

[bigboss]

Thanks for the replies: I haven't heard of any issues previously either - I chanced on this by accident. The electrical interference generated by the AW12 is comparatively minor to start with (when first switched on), but seems to get progressively worse the 'hotter' it gets (the harder/longer you drive it) to the point that it generates more interference than some washing machines I've measured in the past. This isn't speculation as I'm actually measuring it. Switching the subwoofer off stops the interference immediately. Running it from a socket with separate suppression some distance away from the main kit greatly reduces the interference measured at the sockets feeding the AVR/Bluray etc. I'll keep investigating to see if there's some other contributory cause.

Measuring is one thing, & translating into deterioration in performance is another. Have you noticed any deterioration in performance? If not, why worry about measuring it? It'll only cause you more heartburn.

 

[wireman]

With the numerous amount of Apex packages that we've supplied, not one AW12 has come back to us, nor has any user raised any issues. Maybe yours is a faulty one.

Well, if my AW12 is faulty David, it's you who'll be getting it back, 'cos you sold it to me! In all seriousness, I don't think it is faulty... it's just an undesirable symptom of many switch-mode power supplies... it's just that I wouldn't have expected it to be quite as bad as it is for a product of this calibre.

Measuring is one thing, & translating into deterioration in performance is another. Have you noticed any deterioration in performance? If not, why worry about measuring it? It'll only cause you more heartburn.

You're absolutley right bigboss: I wasn't in the least dissatisfied until I accidentally discovered how much crud the AW12 was feeding back into the mains supply, did something to remove/minimise the crud being generated, and now (with my mains supply restored to super-quiet and interference free) discover a small but noticable visual and audible performance improvement from the rest of the AV: It's an improvement akin to upgrading a key cable or two. I never had this problem with the KEF3005SE (HTB2?) or REL subs that preceeded it!

It's strange to be sure, and I'm not yet discounting the possibility of something else interacting with it to cause this 'issue'... I'll keep testing over time to see.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, I'm seriously thinking about joining the club.

I am thinking of upgrading my 7.1 Jamo A102 set up to the Apex. Its a serious upgrade financially and I can't help wondering how much difference I would notice.

With the Apex would a 5.1 set up be ok?

Also I have a Pioneer 919AH, is it up to the Apex, in 5.1 or 7.1.

Thanks for any help.

Ian

 

[RickyDeg]

Hi, I'm seriously thinking about joining the club.

I am thinking of upgrading my 7.1 Jamo A102 set up to the Apex. Its a serious upgrade financially and I can't help wondering how much difference I would notice.

With the Apex would a 5.1 set up be ok?

Also I have a Pioneer 919AH, is it up to the Apex, in 5.1 or 7.1.

Thanks for any help.

Ian

Hi Ian,

Having never heard your current Jamo speakersystem in action it's naturally difficult to judge it. But by looking it up shortly on the web I think it's safe to say you moving up to something as luxurious as the Apex will bring vast amounts of improvements to your listeningroom. It shines in 5.1 (I had that set-up at first) and continues to grow in spades when you expand it. I have a 7.2 set-up now. Though that certainly isn't a must, in any way. Given a good amplifier/receiver they throw a large soundstage (even more so than my previous KEF did) full of life and vitality. It's musical and delicate, yet powerful and detailed in a way I bet your Jamo's are no way near.

However, I have to say I'm uncertain your Pioneer would be up for the task of driving these appropriately. Naturally you'd get it to work, but the Apex is clearly a system that benifit from being driven by quality. Quality in - Quality out. But you can always upgrade later on. The Apex are 'transparent' enought o reward any upgrades with better audio reproduction as an end-result. I use a Denon receiver with mine. Though not the biggest or latest model of the brand, it gives the Apex a full-bodied, lush foundation with plenty of gusto.

Let us know what you choose and how you get on! Just make sure you demo, demo, demo! Or better yet - find a dealer that will let you audition them at home - that is ALWAYS the best solution!

 

[gosalh]

Ian i second Ricky's comments. The Apex are excellent but need to be driven with a decent amp.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi gosalh

Nice avatar :bigsmile:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[RickyDeg]

Ian i second Ricky's comments. The Apex are excellent but need to be driven with a decent amp.

Hey gosalh,

How's your Denon AVR A-100 continuing to work for you? Bringing out the best of the Apex? I take it you are still impressed with the new Audyssey calibration system?

Have you ever tested/heard them with Pioneer SC-LX83 by the way? If so, how would you compare with Denon, in particular the one you have now? I'm about to borrow home a sample of the SC-LX83 together with the matching BDP-LX54 next week from a (very kind) dealer. Will be interesting to test how that combo actually works in my set-up. I've yet to be truly charmed by any other brand of receiver that can match the Denon coupled with Audyssey.