The almost forgotten turntable

[bigfish786]

The Marantz TT15S1 is getting very little use these days. Since buying a Luxman CD player, I’ve spent almost all my time listening to that.
Today, I thought I’d spin a few records, blow the dust off the turntable and see how things sound.
Happy with the music but the background noise is so much more noticeable after listening exclusively to cd for a good few months.
Strange thing about the record collection, I still seem to buy loads, but barely ever listen to them. Not sure I’m getting the same level of enjoyment from records as I do CDs.
I definitely need to stop buying new records, it’s like an addiction.. but makes no sense.
I played a couple of early Iron Maiden albums first, which didn’t sound all that well recorded. Moved on to Powerslave and that sounds amazing in comparison. (Think this is a remaster)

 

[DougK1]

Same TT same result. Nothing wrong with the TT, it's fantastic and will definitely remain in my system. Since getting my amp and CDP about 4 years ago I've probably used the TT 4 or 5 times, digital sounds so good I've found there's no need to spin an LP. However, the best sound I ever heard from my kit was when Gray brought over a 12" 45, it sounded sublime.

 

[Gray]

Same TT same result. Nothing wrong with the TT, it's fantastic and will definitely remain in my system. Since getting my amp and CDP about 4 years ago I've probably used the TT 4 or 5 times, digital sounds so good I've found there's no need to spin an LP. However, the best sound I ever heard from my kit was when Gray brought over a 12" 45, it sounded sublime.

Yes, CD may be technically superior, but I've never heard CD sound better than that particular vinyl sound 👍

 

[bigfish786]

Yes, CD may be technically superior, but I've never heard CD sound better than that particular vinyl sound 👍

I’ve mentioned it before, but the Tool album, Fear Inoculum I have on triple vinyl is the best I’ve heard the format sound. 👍

 

[twinkletoes]

It comes in waves for me and how lazy I’m feeling. Surface noise I can pretty much ignor especially if I’m really enjoying the music. And my speakers given there nature shine a light more intently on this aspect.

Having said that I tend to enjoy vinyl more simply because these days it tends to receive a more careful master of the music. Make no mistake I understand the the short coming. I just enjoy it more. Either way cd or vinyl it gets my foot tapping

 

[hifi]

CD is the lazy format and very convenient but also vey Harsh if that is the right expression ,Vinyl is mush more laid back and softer sounding.I am looking at upgrading my turntable too a Technics .
I find some sound better on CD & others on Vinyl !

If it makes you happy then turn it up 👍

 

[Steve983]

CD is usually best but sometimes you get that warm vinyl sound that really hits the spot. I find vinyl is best for more acoustic /ambient/electronic music and have been rediscovering my LP's recently when trying out my newly restored NAD 3020 amp. I played JM Jarre's Oxygene the other night, it sounded really good.

 

[bigfish786]

CD is the lazy format and very convenient but also vey Harsh if that is the right expression ,Vinyl is mush more laid back and softer sounding.I am looking at upgrading my turntable too a Technics .
I find some sound better on CD & others on Vinyl !

If it makes you happy then turn it up 👍

When I had my Marantz setup I got really lazy. I ripped all my CDs at MP3 320 and put them on a usb stick , I stuck that in the cd player and that was it. Barely ever spun a cd from that point. They sounded good enough to me, and was really convenient to select an album and not move from the sofa. I think I did myself an injustice, as that cd player was capable of sounding way better.
Now I have the Luxman, I have to get off my butt and change the disc, and I’m much better off for it.
I’ve no doubt that if it took a usb stick, I’d still be using it.

 

[Rodolfo]

I went through and enjoyed the "sound better" play-checks and discussions in the first 10 years or so of CDs. I was also still enjoying new and self-recorded cassettes during that period. I found soon enough that I enjoyed nice recordings on all media and in the 21st century I still enjoy spinning & playing both excellent CDs and LPs. This weekend I listened to three versions of The Four Seasons on my CD player, and a Kind of Blue LP on my turntable, all borrowed recordings. Each so nice, satisfying, resounding, and I so routinely play, and sometimes entertain with, both that no one felt a need to compare media and instead focused on the music, the playing, the recordings.

This century I've ADDED more digital ways of enjoying excellent recordings, and streaming and PORTABILITY has been the biggest change to my listening, thanks to learning to ALSO appreciate FLAC, LDAC, DAPs, streaming, etc. This morning I've enjoyed listening to Scott Hamilton (FLAC files), as I continue my review/testing of a new set of LDAC earbuds. The buds are very nice; Hamilton's crew sound is as superb.

I'd say that what I've especially valued about CDs relative to LPs (with my always limited but fully-gratifying and -satisfying system) is being able to rip them -especially many borrowed ones (!!)- and thus greatly multiplying my digital music collection that I can also enjoy through my added 21st-century devices and methods.

Joyful music listening to all in your own favorite ways.

 

[Gray]

....being able to rip them -especially many borrowed ones (!!)

😱
(As you probably know, even your lenders are contravening copyright law).

 

[Rodolfo]

😱
(As you probably know, even your lenders are contravening copyright law).

Wrong, I firmly believe from my reading, understanding and interpretation of "fair use" -as long as you know said (copyrighted) CD has been legally purchased, and any copy you make is strictly for personal use. I have never copied, nor gotten around protection of, any copy-restricted disc, nor shared any ripped files in any public or private way. (Heck, I never downloaded music files, even when that was the rage. I might have been tempted had Napster and others offered Hi-Res!!) Similarly, or by extension, I can legally DVR/copy any copyrighted video material through my streaming services -as long as I use it fairly/privately, I suppose. BUT, I never otherwise copy any video file; DVDs, Blu-Rays, etc. are copy-restricted, and all such discs do include the relevant copying/reproduction WARNINGs. The industry has never restricted music CDs these ways. thankfully; and this has to be by choice and design, not because their lawyers and accountants have never thought of it.

Moreover, BTW, my rip of Scott Hamilton has just inspired me to order a CD that is not available to me. Streaming is not sufficient for me because I need/want to listen lossless-ly on and through my portable devices, including my DAP which plays only digital files on an SD card! So, I have to purchase a CD, something many don't think of doing any more, or have never done.

 

[DCarmi]

The industry has never restricted music CDs these ways.

...but they did try! See the Sony rootkit scandal.

Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Gray]

Wrong, I firmly believe from my reading, understanding and interpretation of "fair use"

Not wrong.
Sorry, but lending is not covered by any 'fair use' clause.

Fair use can be applied to the purchaser.
I was talking specifically about lending.
From the earliest vinyl, through CDs there has always been the copyright warning that precludes 'unathorised lending'.
And they don't mean the lender can authorise the lending 🙂.

Of course, it's one of the most broken laws that there has ever been.....even if you don't do it 😉

 

[Gray]

The industry has never restricted music CDs these ways.

Bizarrely, the industry ensured that audio CD recorders allowed only a single digital copy of a commercial CD.

The copy CDR/W was marked during the recording....so that no further digital copies could be made from that copy.

BUT, you could make as many digital copies as you like from that original, copyrighted disc 🤔

 

[plastic penguin]

The Marantz TT15S1 is getting very little use these days. Since buying a Luxman CD player, I’ve spent almost all my time listening to that.
Today, I thought I’d spin a few records, blow the dust off the turntable and see how things sound.
Happy with the music but the background noise is so much more noticeable after listening exclusively to cd for a good few months.
Strange thing about the record collection, I still seem to buy loads, but barely ever listen to them. Not sure I’m getting the same level of enjoyment from records as I do CDs.
I definitely need to stop buying new records, it’s like an addiction.. but makes no sense.
I played a couple of early Iron Maiden albums first, which didn’t sound all that well recorded. Moved on to Powerslave and that sounds amazing in comparison. (Think this is a remaster)

I think you need to put this into context. Your turntable retails around £1500, while your used Luxman CDP is selling (used example) at nearly 3k and the Luxman amp is mortgage levels.

Double the price of turntable and the story will be very different.

 

[Gray]

Double the price of turntable and the story will be very different.

I'm not so sure about that.
Doug can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was that same TT (with Nagaoka MP-500) that I heard playing my 12" vinyl.

A Ruby phono stage and Harbeth speakers really helped to prove just how good vinyl can be (never mind this 'warm', 'soft' sound, commonly attributed to vinyl).
Can only say that it's hard for me to imagine a vast improvement on what I heard.

 

[DCarmi]

Bizarrely, the industry ensured that audio CD recorders allowed only a single digital copy of a commercial CD.

The music industry was never a shining example of common sense. They priced physical media at premium and pushed people into illicit means such as Napster. The price of vinyl now is no more than was paid in the 70s and 80s allowing for inflation, and it is a much more of a niche market these days.

The "home taping is killing music" campaign never made sense because home taping actually encouraged people to buy media based on stuff they heard on tape (well it did me and I have over 1000 LPs or CDs - not counted in recent years). You can still see this today, where people are buying Vinyl e.g. , Taylor Swift and not necessarily playing them.

Ah, yes! Which companies, back in the day, produced devices to encourage the means to home tape and hence kill music? Philips, Sony, Thorn EMI etc.

What does make sense is streaming. A decent cash cow for the production companies, perhaps not the artists.

 

[plastic penguin]

I'm not so sure about that.
Doug can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was that same TT (with Nagaoka MP-500) that I heard playing my 12" vinyl.

A Ruby phono stage and Harbeth speakers really helped to prove just how good vinyl can be (never mind this 'warm', 'soft' sound, commonly attributed to vinyl).
Can only say that it's hard for me to imagine a vast improvement on what I heard.

No matter how good Doug's set-up is (and I'm sure it's everything you say) all things can be improved on, as long as you've got the budget. But I'm sure if @bigfish786 was to spend 3-4k on a turntable, it would outshine anything his current CDP will produce. Or at least it'll restore parity.

 

[Gray]

No matter how good Doug's set-up is (and I'm sure it's everything you say) all things can be improved on, as long as you've got the budget. But I'm sure if @bigfish786 was to spend 3-4k on a turntable, it would outshine anything his current CDP will produce. Or at least it'll restore parity.

Just my opinion, but I've always thought that way too much importance is placed on prices - that more expensive always means better.

At the very least, I reckon we're well into diminishing returns being so small as to being virtually irrelevant....something that blind testing would probably confirm.

 

[plastic penguin]

Just my opinion, but I've always thought that way too much importance is placed on prices - that more expensive always means better.

At the very least, I reckon we're well into diminishing returns being so small as to being virtually irrelevant....something that blind testing would probably confirm.

Obviously, price isn't everything. I've heard some real expensive plumbs, but a well sorted 3-4k example will better his [bigfish] CDP, and, little doubt, improve on Dougs Marantz (Clearaudio).

 

[DougK1]

Obviously, price isn't everything. I've heard some real expensive plumbs, but a well sorted 3-4k example will better his [bigfish] CDP, and, little doubt, improve on Dougs Marantz (Clearaudio).

It might do but for me personally it's never gonna happen in the years I've got left on this planet

 

[plastic penguin]

It might do but for me personally it's never gonna happen in the years I've got left on this planet

I think @Gray is clouding the thread a little, as there's a big difference between kit satisfaction and improving a system. Like you I am totally satisfied with my bundles. I would never want to change any of my stuff, even though I'm perfectly aware they all can be improved on.

 

[bigfish786]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I had been considering a new turntable, I’d love a Gyro SE, and £3k from Vickers is within reach. But I’d then be using the same arm that’s on my Marantz, which retail for more than I paid for the whole turntable 🤷‍♂️. So, I’m not sure how much difference there would be sound wise, but the new toy excitement could spur me on to spin more records. Another option is a MC cart, but not sure that would be right for me.
In all honesty, based on my usage over the last year or so, I’d be more inclined to go for another Luxman CD player, something further up the range.
But, who knows. I could be tempted with an Avid/SME setup as that was very impressive when I heard it when buying the D03x. (Nagaoka cart)

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I had been considering a new turntable, I’d love a Gyro SE, and £3k from Vickers is within reach. But I’d then be using the same arm that’s on my Marantz, which retail for more than I paid for the whole turntable 🤷‍♂️. So, I’m not sure how much difference there would be sound wise, but the new toy excitement could spur me on to spin more records. Another option is a MC cart, but not sure that would be right for me.
In all honesty, based on my usage over the last year or so, I’d be more inclined to go for another Luxman CD player, something further up the range.
But, who knows. I could be tempted with an Avid/SME setup as that was very impressive when I heard it when buying the D03x. (Nagaoka cart)

Why would you use a Marantz tonearm? There are a number of different arms you can use. I heard a Gyro with a Rega arm - sounded really impressive.

 

[bigfish786]

Why would you use a Marantz tonearm? There are a number of different arms you can use. I heard a Gyro with a Rega arm - sounded really impressive.

It’s not really a Marantz Tonearm. It’s a Clearaudio Satisfy arm. A friend has the gyro with a rega arm on and it does sound nice, but I think it would be a backwards (sideways) step from the tonearm I already have.

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