Technics SL-1200MK2 as an audio TT

[admin_exported]

Has anyone used one for a home audio TT rather than a DJ TT. Will they be any good if fitted with decent cart.

 

[Anonymous]

See this recent thread: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/turntables-and-lps/technics-turntables

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Hey, never heard an SL1200, but it was designed as an audiophile deck, not a DJ deck. The paper specs are better than most audiophile turntables, so I'd go for it.

Best cartridges I ever heard were the Benz and Dynavector ones, so stick on one of those and you won't look back.

 

[Frank Harvey]

If it had been designed as an audiophile deck, the manufacturer would've chosen belt drive rather than direct drive. Vibrations from the direct coupled motor/spindle feed back to the cartridge. The belt of a belt drive deck tends to absorb those vibrations. Either Technics were just trying to be bold using a supposedly better drive mechanism, or they were using direct drive as a selling tool due to it's claimed superiority.

Direct drive was chosen due to it's virtually immediate start up time, allowing greater cueing accuracy, and was built to withstand the daily demands of the average night club DJ.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

If it had been designed as an audiophile deck, the manufacturer would've chosen belt drive rather than direct drive. Vibrations from the direct coupled motor/spindle feed back to the cartridge. The belt of a belt drive deck tends to absorb those vibrations. Either Technics were just trying to be bold using a supposedly better drive mechanism, or they were using direct drive as a selling tool due to it's claimed superiority. Direct drive was chosen due to it's virtually immediate start up time, allowing greater cueing accuracy, and was built to withstand the daily demands of the average night club DJ.

Absolute fiction from start to finish, mate!

Do a google, then you'll find yourself blushing.

 

[chebby]

If it had been designed as an audiophile deck, the manufacturer would've chosen belt drive rather than direct drive. Vibrations from the direct coupled motor/spindle feed back to the cartridge. The belt of a belt drive deck tends to absorb those vibrations. Either Technics were just trying to be bold using a supposedly better drive mechanism, or they were using direct drive as a selling tool due to it's claimed superiority. Direct drive was chosen due to it's virtually immediate start up time, allowing greater cueing accuracy, and was built to withstand the daily demands of the average night club DJ.

You are so far off the mark that I am actually agreeing with Altruistic lemon for the first time!

I don't even have to Google it.

You may have been right if referring to some cheap, plastic, microphonic, generic direct drive from the late 1970s (the type that were just an afterthought to some 'tower system') but you are wrong about the SL1200/1210. They were incredibly well engineered.

And no, it was not conceived of as a 'DJ deck'. That all came later on.

 

[lindsayt]

If it had been designed as an audiophile deck, the manufacturer would've chosen belt drive rather than direct drive. Vibrations from the direct coupled motor/spindle feed back to the cartridge. The belt of a belt drive deck tends to absorb those vibrations. Either Technics were just trying to be bold using a supposedly better drive mechanism, or they were using direct drive as a selling tool due to it's claimed superiority. Direct drive was chosen due to it's virtually immediate start up time, allowing greater cueing accuracy, and was built to withstand the daily demands of the average night club DJ.

Absolute fiction from start to finish, mate! Do a google, then you'll find yourself blushing.

I totally 100% agree with altruistic.lemon.

The signal to noise ratio of the Technics 1210 is 78db.

The Pioneer Exclusive P3a direct drive turntable has a signal to noise ratio of 95db!

I think that this nonsense about belt drive being better than direct drive was started as a marketing ploy by a manufacturer of belt drive turntables to diss the opposition. It was then repeated many times by hi-fi magazines in the early 1980's.

The truth about direct vs belt drive turntables is that it's all in the execution. Well engineered direct drive turntables, such as the P3a, are technically and sonically amongst the best turntables ever made.

Well engineered direct drive turntables have a locked-on pitch stability and a crispness to the sound that the vast majority of belt drives struggle to match.

I thought that the Technics 1210 with a modded Rega arm and an Ortofon Rondo Bronze cartridge, was a fine sounding record player when I heard it at a mini bake-off in my own system

 

[Anonymous]

So now I'm even more confused. Would it be worth picking up a second hand Technics TT for up to £400 and spending another £200 on a cart or would it be better getting another TT for about that price? I haven't got the budget to spend 5 or 6 hundred on a new arm and another 5 on a cart.

 

[DIB]

Well I demoed the new Rega RP3 with Elys2 on Saturday and was very impressed. The full package about £550,with minimal setting up.

If I decide to retire my old Systemdek then the RP3 is definitely in the frame.

.

 

[CnoEvil]

Without wishing to get embroiled in a DD vs BD arguement, I come from the era where no self respecting "audiophile" would even consider a DD turntable. Whether this was because of the proliferation of unsatisfactory Japanese DD efforts of the 80s, or a conspiracy between the Hifi press at the time and the TT brands, to persuade us to buy a "cheaper to manufacture" solution, I don't know.

What I do know is that nearly all the "hifi" TTs were belt driven back then.....and probably still are (but I'm not so up to date now).

I suspect that a DD solution is more expensive to properly manufacture/implement/isolate compared to a BD design (which also has its faults), so is easier to "tool-up" for in a market where demand is small (though growing).

With regard to the Technics, I don't recall much "hoo ha" about it back in the 70s or 80s, as it wasn't on the "standard recomendation" list of the hifi mags (Dual CS505, Trio 1033, Sansui SR222 Mk 2, Dunlop Systemdek, Rega, Pink Triangle, Linn, Roksan, Michell etc). I don't think its possible shortcommings are likely to come from the DD and platter, but the arm and its isolation.

IMO. In order to get this deck to a high level of performance, it will need modded with a decent arm and cartridge which could well bring it up to the cost of a better sounding deck.....of course I could be wrong.

 

[lindsayt]

£400 for a 2nd hand Technics 1200 /1210 is too much. You can get them for £200. Get a Rega arm for £150 or maybe a Syrinx PU3 or Mission 774 arm for similar money, get a Denon DL103 (£115) or a DL110 (£130). And then you'll have a very nice record player. The big advantage of the Technics is that there's so many of them around. So getting parts or getting a replacement for low cost if it ever goes wrong should not be a problem for quite a few years to come. For sound quality I would prefer a £500 Technics / Rega / Denon combination to a £500 Rega one as well as a £1500 Linn LP12 / Ittok / Troika. There's a nice crispness and clarity to the Technics sound when you put a half decent arm and cartridge on it.

There are dozens of worthy Japanese direct drive turntables from the 1970's and 1980's. Some of them, such as the Pioneer PL71 (£200 comes with a good arm so just needs a good cartridge) are real bargains. A general guide in deciding if a Japanese tt is any good or not is to find out how heavy it is. If it's light it's likely to be plasticky rubbish. If it's heavy, there's a chance it's properly engineered and should sound good.

 

[CnoEvil]

For sound quality I would prefer a £500 Technics / Rega / Denon combination to a £500 Rega one as well as a £1500 Linn LP12 / Ittok / Troika.

Having owned an LP12/Ittok/Asak, I would be exceedingly surprised if a Technics deck would sound better; but since I've never had the chance to compare, I will never know for sure.

 

[Anonymous]

To be honest I would only pit a modded Technic's against an LP 12 package, only then am I confident it would be superior in certain areas. As with anything, theres a lot of subjective judgment involved when evaluating qualities. It would be a mistake to underestimate the basic qualities of the SL1200 though, perhaps they should review a Timestep Evo SL1200 at What Hi Fi? After all Funk have taken the LP 12 (a turntable they don't manufacture) and incorporated their mods into it.

 

[Anonymous]

Swoosta. If your bitten by the audiophile bug and your intending to spend money at a date later then go for the Technics, it's got a lot of potential for upgrading down the road that will make it top flight. If you want a buy it and forget it solution then go for a Rega or Project. Likely they'll sound slightly better out of the box than a standard SL1200, but it will leave little room for improvement/upgrades later. This is really the two paths you have to decide between.

 

[lindsayt]

The Technics 1210 with standard arm and an mm cartridge that I heard in my system sounded poor. As if the sound was coming through huge wads of cotton wool that was muffling the music. This might explain why some people don't rate the Technics.

However, as I've already mentioned the Technics 1210 I heard with the OL modded Rega arm with Denon DL103 cartridge and then later with Ortofon Rondo Bronze had better midrange clarity, bass crispness than my LP12 / Ittok / Troika. Some people might prefer the soft, hypnotic, sweet upper midrange and treble, woolly bassed presentation of my LP12. I prefer something with better clarity, focus, crispness.

The LP12 / Ittok is a good record player. Nothing more nothing less. There are quite a few very good, or excellent record players that have been made in the last 60 years.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Absolute fiction from start to finish, mate! Do a google, then you'll find yourself blushing.

I have heard these decks you know, and sold them for many years. I've done comparisons with other decks, and they don't compare. Yes, build quality is great, I'll give them that. Maybe it's a different story with the tweakers adding different arms to them, but the 1200/1210 in it's basic forum just lacks something that a good quality, equivalently priced (and somew cheaper ones) have.

No blushes here. I speak as I find.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Time for me to wade back in.

I use an SL-1210 as my regular deck with a Denon DL-110 cart. It is a great deck, and to my ears at least equals the sound of a Planar 3, and for ease of use blows any belt-drive TT away. It has also been totally reliable. £200 well spent.

However.

I used to own an LP12/Valhalla/Ittok combination, and there is no way the SL-1210 in it's standard form can extract the same level of detail out of the groove.

A/B'd, you can tell the difference quite easily. However, I sold my LP12/Ittok for £800. And for me, it wasn't £600 worth of difference between the two. And don't get me started on the LP12's faff factor.

 

[Anonymous]

Time for me to wade back in.

I use an SL-1210 as my regular deck with a Denon DL-110 cart. It is a great deck, and to my ears at least equals the sound of a Planar 3, and for ease of use blows any belt-drive TT away. It has also been totally reliable. £200 well spent.

Is that with the standard arm?

 

[Anonymous]

Time for me to wade back in.

I use an SL-1210 as my regular deck with a Denon DL-110 cart. It is a great deck, and to my ears at least equals the sound of a Planar 3, and for ease of use blows any belt-drive TT away. It has also been totally reliable. £200 well spent.

Is that with the standard arm?

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Yes - totally standard apart from the cartridge. It came with a Stanton concorde-something-or-other which was truly horrible. I've even put an AT-95E on it with really good results. Not as smooth as the DL, but it's certainly very enjoyable to listen to.

As always, one man's meat is another's poison, but for me it's probably the last turntable I'll buy.

 

[Anonymous]

Absolute fiction from start to finish, mate! Do a google, then you'll find yourself blushing.

I have heard these decks you know, and sold them for many years. I've done comparisons with other decks, and they don't compare. Yes, build quality is great, I'll give them that. Maybe it's a different story with the tweakers adding different arms to them, but the 1200/1210 in it's basic forum just lacks something that a good quality, equivalently priced (and somew cheaper ones) have.

No blushes here. I speak as I find.

The fiction part he's referring to is your assertion that it was built specifically as a DJ deck rather than audiophile deck, not the sound which I think most of us agree on.

If it had been designed as an audiophile deck...

For the record it was.

Direct drive was chosen due to it's virtually immediate start up time, allowing greater cueing accuracy, and was built to withstand the daily demands of the average night club DJ...

Technics were not engineering a deck for the DJ market, its adoption as a standard came afterwards.

You do a little research before making such bold (and incorrect) statements, otherwise people are going take you to task over this particularly when you ignore the parts you are not accurate on.

 

[Anonymous]

So here are my options, upgrade my Project Debut (old model about 5 years old with the old style arm) with new/better cart - has the original ortofon 5e still, or go for a Rega Rp3 or get a s/h Technics with good cart. Budget around £600.

 

[CnoEvil]

So here are my options, upgrade my Project Debut (old model about 5 years old with the old style arm) with new/better cart - has the original ortofon 5e still, or go for a Rega Rp3 or get a s/h Technics with good cart. Budget around £600.

I owned a Rega Planar 3 (RB300 arm - I think) and it was excellant...so that would get my vote.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'm not sure who it is/was that claimed the 1200/1210 was originally designed as an audiophile deck, but I don't buy it. Chances are that was sales blurb by Technics to try and get it accepted in hi-fi circles. I can't see a deck that is perfect for DJ's in every way (with certain features specifically aimed at DJ's) being designed originally for audiophiles. If they had, it'd have a better arm and mat on it for starters. A 4x4 works fine around town, but it doesn't necessarily make it the best choice for the job.

I appreciate those who own or use 1200/1210's as hi-fi decks at home are going to protect your choice, and that's fine, and I can fully understand it as first choice for many in comparison to lightweight, basic 'hi-fi' turntables. But it's a stretch to say that a standard one will compete with top notch turntables. With a better arm and modifications I can understand, but I will say that a properly set up LP12, in the right system, can sound phenomenal. And I have to admit, I'm not a Linn fan.

The best thing for Swoosat to do would be to pick one up second hand and tinker.

 

[Frank Harvey]

So here are my options, upgrade my Project Debut (old model about 5 years old with the old style arm) with new/better cart - has the original ortofon 5e still, or go for a Rega Rp3 or get a s/h Technics with good cart. Budget around £600.

You could even look around for Michell Synchros, Micros, or even older GyroDecs which would fall within your budget. The benefit of a GyroDec would be that it can be retrofitted with most upgrades that have been applied over it's 30 year lifespan.