Suggested Hi-Fi system for a near-midlife crisis!

[megatombomb]

Hello again guys,

Bearing in mind i want to get myself full range speakers (no subs involved) should i be considering upping my budget to £5.5 for the PMC PB1i's ive just found on exdemo!?

Also found an ex demo Mcintosh MA6600 int amp for £4500.

This would put my CD player on hold for 6months whiles i saves up some more dosh

It seems there is much money to be saved on store exdemos.

 

[megatombomb]

Ooooh and another combo in the shape of the new Mk6 Mcintosh 275 valve amp with the super sensitive Tannoy Kensington SE's!?

 

[BigH]

"The what hifi review said positioning wasnt an issue with these speakers but i speak from extensive experience that that statement is utter rubbish."

The problem is WhatHiFi has a specially treated room, so what they get is different from nearly everyone else, if you had bass traps in all the corners and panels on the walls you probably would not get much bass boom. It has surprised me reading reviews how little is mentioned but seems a feature with many speakers.

 

[CnoEvil]

You are listing some lovely kit, but none of us can tell you what will prove best for your needs........let us know what you decide.

 

[Macspur]

As Cno says, you are indeed coming up with some tremendous contendors, but until you either start demoing or take the plunge with a blind buy,not recommended, you will never find what you are looking for.

I know what you are going through to a certain extent, as over the last couple of years I dithered over first changing my speakers, CDP and finally amp... only through extensive demos, home when possible, that I have found a set up that I will probably be keeping for quite a few years.

Mac

 

[megatombomb]

Has anyone heard a pair of PMC EB1i's? I am unable to hear them as they are second hand but would be most interested in them as i can have a full range speaker with excellent bass!

Need alot of drive though looking at specs (sens 87db and impedance 6ohms) so i think valve/class A amps are out which is as shame but what solid state would give enough power with a valve like sound/warmth/musicality!? I thought along line of EMC ECi5 mk2 but reviews have said how uber laid back it is maybe too much so! Also looking at the new Marantz PM11s3 and SA11s3 combo.

Btw i didnt think much of the MA GX200s i heard again too bass shy like my own MArx6 even connected the MF M6i but the amp made the speaker sound less bright than i had anticipated which was good so it seems like a very good amp for my tastes ie detailed sound with some warmth? Lacks a fully balanced input and circuit for a EMC 1up or Marantz SA-11S3 cd player though.

 

[Electro]

Has anyone heard a pair of PMC EB1i's? I am unable to hear them as they are second hand but would be most interested in them as i can have a full range speaker with excellent bass!

Need alot of drive though looking at specs (sens 87db and impedance 6ohms) so i think valve/class A amps are out which is as shame but what solid state would give enough power with a valve like sound/warmth/musicality!? I thought along line of EMC ECi5 mk2 but reviews have said how uber laid back it is maybe too much so! Also looking at the new Marantz PM11s3 and SA11s3 combo.

Btw i didnt think much of the MA GX200s i heard again too bass shy like my own MArx6 even connected the MF M6i but the amp made the speaker sound less bright than i had anticipated which was good so it seems like a very good amp for my tastes ie detailed sound with some warmth? Lacks a fully balanced input and circuit for a EMC 1up or Marantz SA-11S3 cd player though.

The EB1i is a discontinued model but is a fantastic speaker .

It is physically quite large and this put off a lot of potential purchasers, also the performance of the smaller and more room friendly PB1i is so close that the EB1i did not sell that well hence why PMC decided to discontinue this model .

I have done a direct comparison between the EB1i and PB1i and IMO the PB1i images better and gives equal power and slam in the bass except at very very high volumes where the EB1i just pulls ahead . The EBIi goes down to 19hz and the PB1i to 24hz

Both the EBIi and PB1i are far easier to drive than the figures suggest and are a relatively easy load .

Don't believe the reviews of the Electrocompaniet ECI 5 MK2 it is not laid back at all , please listen to one before writing it off or you will be seriously missing out . Also consider an Electrocompaniet pre- power combo if more power is required .

The combination of Electrocompaniet amps and PMC speaker is quite special IMO and I urge you to give them a listen .

 

[Native_bon]

Has anyone heard a pair of PMC EB1i's? I am unable to hear them as they are second hand but would be most interested in them as i can have a full range speaker with excellent bass!

Need alot of drive though looking at specs (sens 87db and impedance 6ohms) so i think valve/class A amps are out which is as shame but what solid state would give enough power with a valve like sound/warmth/musicality!? I thought along line of EMC ECi5 mk2 but reviews have said how uber laid back it is maybe too much so! Also looking at the new Marantz PM11s3 and SA11s3 combo.

Btw i didnt think much of the MA GX200s i heard again too bass shy like my own MArx6 even connected the MF M6i but the amp made the speaker sound less bright than i had anticipated which was good so it seems like a very good amp for my tastes ie detailed sound with some warmth? Lacks a fully balanced input and circuit for a EMC 1up or Marantz SA-11S3 cd player though.

Megatombomb, seems you are getting a bit losted with so much choice at hand.. Think you really need to take time to narrow dwn what you need & stick to it.. If not it will be a never ending jounery. May also end up haveing to talk to your bank alot.

 

[megatombomb]

Hey guys so i couldnt resist the opportunity of the walnut veneer EB1i's and now i just have to wait for previous owners to box them up and get them delivered. They have been purchased by me through the dealer that originally supplied them 2.5yrs ago to their current owners. I was looking at an exdemo pair of the PB1i but they were £2k more and theres probably not alot in it in terms of sound.

I discussed amps with the dealer and he suggested it does need some power for high vols. We concluded a Mcintosh MA6600 and Marantz SA-11S3 would probably give me the sound i'm after and he could arrange to have them sent for home demo once the speakers are up and running so i can try them. We ruled out valves/class A though apparantly 30 watts will still sound good upto a point just not grip when volumes rise.

I know i have bought blind on the speakers but the price was right and i have alot of confidence that a well regarded speaker will sound brilliant to me as long as i partner it carfully.

I hope my 6x6 room manages ok though but from what ive read i can manage ok and despite their size they are still flexible about positioning even benefitting from being quite close to rear walls due to the nature of their heavily damped construction. Side walls will be well over 1 metre each side.

At last i have taken a big step to building a system!

 

[CnoEvil]

I look forward to how all this turns out.

 

[megatombomb]

I look forward to how all this turns out.

You think you're excited Cno

 

[Electro]

Hey guys so i couldnt resist the opportunity of the walnut veneer EB1i's and now i just have to wait for previous owners to box them up and get them delivered. They have been purchased by me through the dealer that originally supplied them 2.5yrs ago to their current owners. I was looking at an exdemo pair of the PB1i but they were £2k more and theres probably not alot in it in terms of sound.

I discussed amps with the dealer and he suggested it does need some power for high vols. We concluded a Mcintosh MA6600 and Marantz SA-11S3 would probably give me the sound i'm after and he could arrange to have them sent for home demo once the speakers are up and running so i can try them. We ruled out valves/class A though apparantly 30 watts will still sound good upto a point just not grip when volumes rise.

I know i have bought blind on the speakers but the price was right and i have alot of confidence that a well regarded speaker will sound brilliant to me as long as i partner it carfully.

I hope my 6x6 room manages ok though but from what ive read i can manage ok and despite their size they are still flexible about positioning even benefitting from being quite close to rear walls due to the nature of their heavily damped construction. Side walls will be well over 1 metre each side.

At last i have taken a big step to building a system!

Congratulations :cheer: you now own a superb pair of speakers and I look forward to reading about the rest of you system as you make your choices :cheers:

Don't forget to try an Electrocompaniet amp with them at some point though

 

[Macspur]

Great stuff! on paper you've got some excellent gear on the way... any idea when you will recieve it?

Mac

 

[megatombomb]

Thanks guys i should be looking at getting the speakers late this week or early week after.

As i dont intend to play high volume often i still think a Pathos Logos or Electro ECI5 would do the job and they both seem to double their power more or less into 4 ohms. The speakers are 6ohms so they would get circa 150w from each. I know the Marantz PM11s3 would do even more as its very modest quoted 100w at 8ohm is more like 160 in reality from the lab reports in the HiFi news reviews. Still have the Mcintosh 6600 to consider for 200w pc into 8ohms and again ive found ex demo at a good price.

Still have a burning desire for the MC275 but i can imagine it burning my house down when the EB1's ask for some beans!! :boohoo:

Perhaps this is better for my neighbours though :shhh:

 

[megatombomb]

:type: Hello again guys.

Just an update i have first refusal on a 2year old Bryston Pre and power amp combo in the shape of the BP26 preamp and 4BSST2 power amp. Problem is I have to make a decision on these by tomorrow morning so as not to potentially miss out and they are certainly priced very competitvely and i could budget for them by holding off a while on the CDP.

I have therefore bben beavering and reading as many reviews/forums as possible and the consensus is they are the perfect combo for the new speakers even so far as being the units PMC used themselves to tune and demo the speakers. I cannot find one bad review and yet the consensus is that they will produce a sound that is different to what i am looking for. As previously stated i am eager to get a Valve like warmth and sweetness into my system and a sound that is refined and relaxed but can still be dynamic and entertain with music that requires the gettup and go ie my punk records should still have some bite!!! What i keep reading is the units are very transparant and clean sounding but verge on dryness. This is at odds to what i want to achieve.

As i need to make a rushed decision without hearing i expect i will come to my senses and refuse the offer as i would like to try before i buy especially as ive already spent a reasonable sum on a speakers i havent heard!

However i was wondering about one thing... if the amps are described as transparant if i chose a CD player that was voiced the way i want would i get away with these components and would they even allow the particular sound of the CDP to come out further? Or alternatively could i go another direction by using a class A valve preamp such as this beauty http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Unison-Research-Mystery-Two-Valve-Preamplifier/product_4681 and feed it into the Bryston 4B power amp to get the warmth and sweet tonality?

I dont suppose there is any answer you can give me better than to try them out for myself but i would be interested to hear (preferably tonight ray: ) your thoughts on my suggestions!?

Thanks again in advance

 

[CnoEvil]

Bryston are clean, powerful and neutral.....and so are unlikely to give you the "sweet valve warmth" that you crave, so tread carefully.

IMO. It's too risky to buy without the ability to return, unless you feel you can shift it on with little loss.

 

[Macspur]

Think you know in your own heart, it won't be the sound you're looking for, so there's your answer.

I have heard of others to pair a valve pre with SS power with good results, but not that particular combo.

Personally, I think the Mckintosh would be better.

Why don't you take Electro's advice and try aElectrocompaniet pre/power... Mike at Audio Destination in Devon would allow you a home demo.

Mac

 

[Electro]

CNO is right, the Bryston pre power driving your EB1i's would sound absolutely fantastic with well recorded music but ruthlessly revealing with poorly recorded music .

A valve pre amp with the 4bsst2 might give you a slightly warmer sound with the same amount of grip but as Cno says it would only make sense if you could sell the Brystons on for a similar amount that you paid for them if they do not suit your taste .

I still think you should try an Electrocompaniet amp though

Read this review of the ECi 5 mk2

http://dagogo.com/electrocompaniet-eci-5-mkii-amplifier-review

 

[megatombomb]

Thats a very positive review of the EC5 and pretty much sounds exactly what i was looking for in my sound and well within budget hence ive considered the amp for a while now. My one reserve is that it maybe asking too much of it to drive the Eb1's. I did also read a review in Hifi news that lab tested its real power output at 130w into 8ohm and 240w into 4 ohm, therefore by my sheer power of deduction i guess it manages around 185w into 6ohm! Would this be enough though?! Only one way to find out i suppose.

I am sold on the power output of the Bryston 4B obviously but if i go for a valve pre-amp and end up dissapointed (sometimes i really doubt i would be disappointed with any of the kit ive listed so far) i then face having to move on a Valve pre amp as well.

From the review of the Electro amp it can be used as a preamp too so maybe i could take a punt on the 4B and go for the EC5i mk2 and then i can keep the system i prefer ie EC5 on its own or feeding the 4B?

Obvious choice of CDP becomes the EMC1up though my SACD collection keeps growing and i cant enjoy the DSD on these via the EMC1up hence re-considering the Marantz SA11s3.

So much decisions lol and i forgot the MCIntosh6600 again, an amp that it seems no one has reviews or opinions on online!

 

[Electro]

The EB1i is quite efficient at 89db and are a 4 ohm load so the ECI5 will have no trouble at all driving them to very high levels and keeping control because it is stable into loads down to 0.5 of an ohm and has up to 100 amps of current delivery so there should be no problem .

Your idea of using the ECI5 as an integrated amp and also as a pre amp for the Bryston 4BSST is a good one and will give you plenty of time to make the choice of which you prefer .

As to the choice between the EMCI UP and the Marantz I suppose I am a little biased but I have found that with hybrid SACD's the Cd layer played on the EMC1 UP sounded far better than the SACD layer played on my NAD M55 universal player, but I have not heard the Marantz SA11s3 so I don't know what the difference in sound quality is likely to be between the two .

But I am sure you will have fun finding out .

 

[sortof]

Consider the Teac AI-2000 for amplification.

 

[megatombomb]

Ok i think i am going to take a punt on the Bryston 4Bsst2 power amp but leave the pre-amp which from all ive read now seems to be responsible for the dry, clinical sound i dont want. The 4B should be the perfect power amp to drive the PMC's but its a shame about the styling!. I think i am getting a bargain at £2400 and i reckon i can move it on easily anyway with minimum if any loss if i dislike it.

I have now turned my attention to pre-amps and so far it comes down to Musical Fidelity M6PRE, Electrocompaniet EC4.8 and the Sugden Masterclass LA-4. These are all fully balanced circuits so will allow the 4b power amp and whichever of the Electro or Marantz CDP's to realise their full potential.

I have enquired about the brand new Icon Audio LA5TX with their sales team to find if it offers fully balanced circuits and conn's but i suspectit doesnt so i will then rule it out.

Upto now the MF M6PRE has the most positive reviews and the price appeals getting back on budget although i have not yet found a single comment let alone review on the Sugden LA-4!? I would have high hopes for this one too! Any opinions guys?

The search continues

 

[Macspur]

Ok i think i am going to take a punt on the Bryston 4Bsst2 power amp but leave the pre-amp which from all ive read now seems to be responsible for the dry, clinical sound i dont want. The 4B should be the perfect power amp to drive the PMC's but its a shame about the styling!. I think i am getting a bargain at £2400 and i reckon i can move it on easily anyway with minimum if any loss if i dislike it.

I have now turned my attention to pre-amps and so far it comes down to Musical Fidelity M6PRE, Electrocompaniet EC4.8 and the Sugden Masterclass LA-4. These are all fully balanced circuits so will allow the 4b power amp and whichever of the Electro or Marantz CDP's to realise their full potential.

I have enquired about the brand new Icon Audio LA5TX with their sales team to find if it offers fully balanced circuits and conn's but i suspectit doesnt so i will then rule it out.

Upto now the MF M6PRE has the most positive reviews and the price appeals getting back on budget although i have not yet found a single comment let alone review on the Sugden LA-4!? I would have high hopes for this one too! Any opinions guys?

The search continues

You're getting there!

Out of the 3 pre you mention, I think the Electro would be the best partner... I've heard the Sugden is the week link in their amps.... don't know anything about the MF.

Mac

 

[Electro]

Ok i think i am going to take a punt on the Bryston 4Bsst2 power amp but leave the pre-amp which from all ive read now seems to be responsible for the dry, clinical sound i dont want. The 4B should be the perfect power amp to drive the PMC's but its a shame about the styling!. I think i am getting a bargain at £2400 and i reckon i can move it on easily anyway with minimum if any loss if i dislike it.

I have now turned my attention to pre-amps and so far it comes down to Musical Fidelity M6PRE, Electrocompaniet EC4.8 and the Sugden Masterclass LA-4. These are all fully balanced circuits so will allow the 4b power amp and whichever of the Electro or Marantz CDP's to realise their full potential.

I have enquired about the brand new Icon Audio LA5TX with their sales team to find if it offers fully balanced circuits and conn's but i suspectit doesnt so i will then rule it out.

Upto now the MF M6PRE has the most positive reviews and the price appeals getting back on budget although i have not yet found a single comment let alone review on the Sugden LA-4!? I would have high hopes for this one too! Any opinions guys?

The search continues

I would definitely buy the Bryston 4B at that price and add the Electro EC4.8 pre to it , I would imagine it will sound superb and drive the EBIi's with absolute ease with superb transparency and detail and with a touch more midrange warmth than the Bryston pre amp .

If you find the sound to still be a little unforgiving you could sell the Bryston for what you paid quite easily and buy the Electrocompaniet AW250 R stereo power amp or maybe the AW180 Monoblocks .

This I can almost guarantee will give you what you are looking for

 

[megatombomb]

Thanks guys for the opinions on the Electro gear again. LOVE the look of these items and the sounds described from them by reviews/owners seem to be what i'm after. However my budget would be badly stretched by the Electro 1upCDP & 4.8 pre amp as i am looking at a £12900 system without cables etc which i need to budget for too. I am now thinking cautiously with my budget all of a sudden.

So i am also considering this now too http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Opera-Consonance-Droplet-CDP-5.0-CD-Player/product_619

It has a valve XLR output built in and a very analogue warm sound. Also it can be used as a preamp. All of a sudden my system becomes £8900 which puts me under my £10k budget i set a while back!!

I'm not trying to be a cheapskate but i wonder if i end up spending £13k before cables i then wouldnt want to skimp on XLR interconnects and this may well add a few hundred to the cost. Also a decent equipment rack would mean £13k easily becomes £14k or more. My budget seems to have spiralled abit.

I have read some very good reviews of this too but again struggle to find much from owners!