Subwoofer Settings for Music Questions

AndyCC72

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Jan 13, 2021
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I’ve got two REL T5i’s that I use solely for music with LS50 speakers.

After much tweaking I’ve got the crossover on both set at 55hz and 9 o’clock on the volume. They’ve made a huge difference to the sound for the better. Although I’m sure they could be even better.

I’ve read on numerous forums that most people with LS50’s are setting the crossover much higher as the LS50’s only go down to 75hz. some as high 120hz.

My questions are the following (I’m new to this so forgive any stupid questions):

as mine are set at 55hz am I missing everything between 55 & 75hz?

when I’ve tried mine at above 60hz the bass sounds a bit flabby, why is that?

would you recommend an antimode and are they simple enough for a technophobe like me to set up for dual subs; what I’ve read about the process thus far has me thinking it might be??
 

AJM1981

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Mar 26, 2021
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What you hear is probably overlap in frequenties. With the Ls50 like other speakers, wall distance plays a role. They dig a little deeper in the bass region due placement near a backwall. It could well be that placing them a bit to the front can make a difference in having to go slightly higher in cut off while the opposite applies to moving them physically forward.

I would recommend those basic subwoofer test videos on youtube with a descending sine wave and a meter. Just run it with only the ls50's and determine the point they start leaving things blank. The sub should kick in from there.
 
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Hi ,

This is where forums fall down a little, and people offering the "best" settings what do they know? Your room is your room the Ls50's may very well produce a solid 55hz in your room. So you need to set your crossover at that point or what's best matched by ear and you seem to have done that. BUT this also depends if you're sending a full range sound the ls50 and by the sounds it ou are.

And the same goes for your volume knob if that's what it takes to fill your room with sound then that what it takes. It's neither wrong nor right.

"As mine are set at 55hz am I missing everything between 55 & 75hz?" No, you answered your own question
"When I’ve tried mine at above 60hz the bass sounds a bit flabby" detail below.

The flabby bass comes from the bass overlap ie the "wrong" setting, it reinforces when there's no need to.
You need to find that magical spot where the sub takes over seamlessly and again it sounds like you've done that.

I recommend eq's if you feel need them tbh if your room isn't treated (far more useful) and or your room is a funny shape there pretty much unless (at least the ones available to consumers) no amount o EQ will solve those problems EQs is no replacement for good old fashioned placement, EQ's are a cherry on top a finisher that's it.


Duel subs, will even the response and not give you more. it will sound the same just more even, actually, you may find an EQ is not needed at all because you have acoustically sorted the problems "even out" is the phrase, raises and lowers dips and peaks and smooths the response 'flatter". if that makes sense.

I'd say stop reading and getting advice it sounds like you've done a bang-up job of getting it all dialled in.
 
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AJM1981

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Mar 26, 2021
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I'm glad I've always opted for floorstanders!
Floorstanders are cool and go pretty low, but there is still a lot of room underneath. For example my standmounts, the evo 4.2's go till around 54hz with a cut off frequency at 48hz. The largest floorstander in its series ends up around 44hz on paper with a cut off at 38hz. There is still a big gap between 38hz and 200hz.
 
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Vincent Kars

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Mar 6, 2021
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You might try measuring the response e.g. using REW and adjust the subs until the response is (more or less) flat.

 

MUSICRAFT

Well-known member
as mine are set at 55hz am I missing everything between 55 & 75hz?

when I’ve tried mine at above 60hz the bass sounds a bit flabby, why is that?
Probably a good idea to get your dealer involved.

Anyway the systems I am using are set at a sweet spot of @ 90Hz :)

The subs have been effectively aligned/calibrated/dialled in. The subs integrate seamlessly with the mains and disappear into the soundstage with a deep, sharp, tight fisted, fast and powerful punchy sub bass. (y)
 

MUSICRAFT

Well-known member
I'm glad I've always opted for floorstanders!
Even a system which has Classic 200's would benefit from a subwoofer :)

Sub bass is the foundation of sound and with all things being equal it's better to have subwoofer/s deal with sub bass fq's. The stronger the foundations are the better fq's above will be supported.

No power, no depth. No depth, no body. No body, no soul to the sound. A subwoofer is the most important component.

Btw and fwiw here are some pics of one of our clients ATC SCA2 > SCM50ASLT > C4 Sub system in the living room of a terraced house. The C4 sub is the back right hand corner of the living room. SCM50ASLT's already sounded superb. A year or so later we brought the C4 into play and instantly it was game over. The C4 constantly supports the system -

atc scm50, sca2, c4 system 1.jpg


atc scm50, sca2, c4 system 2.jpg
 

Gray

Well-known member
Even a system which has Classic 200's would benefit from a subwoofer :)

Sub bass is the foundation of sound and with all things being equal it's better to have subwoofer/s deal with sub bass fq's. The stronger the foundations are the better fq's above will be supported.

No power, no depth. No depth, no body. No body, no soul to the sound. A subwoofer is the most important component.

Btw and fwiw here are some pics of one of our clients ATC SCA2 > SCM50ASLT > C4 Sub system in the living room of a terraced house. The C4 sub is the back right hand corner of the living room. SCM50ASLT's already sounded superb. A year or so later we brought the C4 into play and instantly it was game over. The C4 constantly supports the system -

View attachment 2294


View attachment 2295
See now if I bought those SCM50A, I would expect them not to need subwoofer enhancement.
Look at the size of that room, the bloke lives in a terraced house :eek:
When (not if) his neighbours kill him, it will be your fault (y)
 
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12th Monkey

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Aug 31, 2015
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Floorstanders are cool and go pretty low, but there is still a lot of room underneath. For example my standmounts, the evo 4.2's go till around 54hz with a cut off frequency at 48hz. The largest floorstander in its series ends up around 44hz on paper with a cut off at 38hz. There is still a big gap between 38hz and 200hz.
There are many that go lower than that - and I don't buy the assertion elsewhere that the sub is the most important component.
 
See now if I bought those SCM50A, I would expect them not to need subwoofer enhancement.
Look at the size of that room, the bloke lives in a terraced house :eek:
When (not if) his neighbours kill him, it will be your fault (y)
One would certainly hope his neighbours are, at the very least, deaf. :)
Could be worse, could be an apartment in block of flats
 
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AndyCC72

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2021
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Kma
Hi ,

This is where forums fall down a little, and people offering the "best" settings what do they know? Your room is your room the Ls50's may very well produce a solid 55hz in your room. So you need to set your crossover at that point or what's best matched by ear and you seem to have done that. BUT this also depends if you're sending a full range sound the ls50 and by the sounds it ou are.

And the same goes for your volume knob if that's what it takes to fill your room with sound then that what it takes. It's neither wrong nor right.

"As mine are set at 55hz am I missing everything between 55 & 75hz?" No, you answered your own question
"When I’ve tried mine at above 60hz the bass sounds a bit flabby" detail below.

The flabby bass comes from the bass overlap ie the "wrong" setting, it reinforces when there's no need to.
You need to find that magical spot where the sub takes over seamlessly and again it sounds like you've done that.

I recommend eq's if you feel need them tbh if your room isn't treated (far more useful) and or your room is a funny shape there pretty much unless (at least the ones available to consumers) no amount o EQ will solve those problems EQs is no replacement for good old fashioned placement, EQ's are a cherry on top a finisher that's it.


Duel subs, will even the response and not give you more. it will sound the same just more even, actually, you may find an EQ is not needed at all because you have acoustically sorted the problems "even out" is the phrase, raises and lowers dips and peaks and smooths the response 'flatter". if that makes sense.

I'd say stop reading and getting advice it sounds like you've done a bang-up job of getting it all dialled in.
Thanks for the advice. I suspect you might be right. I'm limited to where I can put the Subs and I've spent quite a while adjusting them and where I am now is the best I've got and it's a lovely full range sound. I'm really happy with it. I just bought some acoufoam stands/platforms for the subs and put the speakers on granite and it's definitely tightened up the bottom end but I feel it's also taken an ever so slight bit of oomph out of it so I'm, going to have a little play around with the settings on the weekend. if I can't make it any better I'll revert back to what they're on now.

Everything I read especially when it comes to readings etc contradicts my findings and says my crossovers are way too low. Solutions for that, stop reading audio science review especially as 90% goes over my head anyway :)
 
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AndyCC72

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2021
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Probably a good idea to get your dealer involved.

Anyway the systems I am using are set at a sweet spot of @ 90Hz :)

The subs have been effectively aligned/calibrated/dialled in. The subs integrate seamlessly with the mains and disappear into the soundstage with a deep, sharp, tight fisted, fast and powerful punchy sub bass. (y)
You might try measuring the response e.g. using REW and adjust the subs until the response is (more or less) flat.

That looks far to scary for a technophobe like me to attempt. I think I need to find a techy friend also into HiFi who lives in the Bexleyheath area who can help me do this sort of thing :) :)
 

AndyCC72

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2021
92
67
120
What you hear is probably overlap in frequenties. With the Ls50 like other speakers, wall distance plays a role. They dig a little deeper in the bass region due placement near a backwall. It could well be that placing them a bit to the front can make a difference in having to go slightly higher in cut off while the opposite applies to moving them physically forward.

I would recommend those basic subwoofer test videos on youtube with a descending sine wave and a meter. Just run it with only the ls50's and determine the point they start leaving things blank. The sub should kick in from there.
I unplugged the two subs yesterday and played a video on Youtube and if that is to believed the LS50's go down as low as 20hz.....which can't be right :)

I've found something on a site called audiocheck.net which I'll have a play around with this week.
 
D

Deleted member 116933

Guest
Kma

Thanks for the advice. I suspect you might be right. I'm limited to where I can put the Subs and I've spent quite a while adjusting them and where I am now is the best I've got and it's a lovely full range sound. I'm really happy with it. I just bought some acoufoam stands/platforms for the subs and put the speakers on granite and it's definitely tightened up the bottom end but I feel it's also taken an ever so slight bit of oomph out of it so I'm, going to have a little play around with the settings on the weekend. if I can't make it any better I'll revert back to what they're on now.

Everything I read especially when it comes to readings etc contradicts my findings and says my crossovers are way too low. Solutions for that, stop reading audio science review especially as 90% goes over my head anyway :)

You got it, There is no hard and fast rule to set them up but there is good practice and as long as you follow the basics you'll be 90% of the way there.

You Have to be careful with treatment as it can give the illusion of robbing sound or in this case depth. But what you have done is taken a peek out of the response, I'd give it a month or so and acclimatise to the new sound allow your audio memory to forget what was.
 

AndyCC72

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2021
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You got it, There is no hard and fast rule to set them up but there is good practice and as long as you follow the basics you'll be 90% of the way there.

You Have to be careful with treatment as it can give the illusion of robbing sound or in this case depth. But what you have done is taken a peek out of the response, I'd give it a month or so and acclimatise to the new sound allow your audio memory to forget what was.
I'll do that, sounds logical. I like logic!
 

MUSICRAFT

Well-known member
See now if I bought those SCM50A, I would expect them not to need subwoofer enhancement.
Look at the size of that room, the bloke lives in a terraced house :eek:
When (not if) his neighbours kill him, it will be your fault (y)
Even if loudspeakers go down to 20Hz then like I've said sub bass is the foundation of sound and with all things being equal it's better to have subwoofer/s deal with sub bass fq's. The stronger the foundations are the better fq's above will be supported.

Besides which ime with a subwoofer injecting power there is now significant depth. With this gain in depth there is a gain in muscle/body across the range. With, power, depth. body there is soul. When the sound has soul then the rightness negates the need to unnecessarily turn up wick up. Owners are happier that their systems also sound great at a low level and the rest of the household and neighbours wonder why a subwoofer wasn't brought into play sooner :)

A subwoofer is the most important component.
 
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MUSICRAFT

Well-known member
I don't buy the assertion elsewhere that the sub is the most important component.
That would be me.

Up until a week ago I was using the following -

dCS Network Bridge > Ares II > A21 SE Signature > 5G Gold 200's. I then added the a Bronze BW10 subwoofer. Took me a fair amount of time to effectively align, calibrate and dial in the sub to the rest of the system. The time and effort was worth it though because the BW10 has supported the system ever since it was first brought into play.
 
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AJM1981

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Mar 26, 2021
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How do you get them ‘in phase’??

I followed the REL instructions to the letter
In this case I would play some reference music, tune up the subwoofer volume a bit to notice it better and tune down the cut off frequency till this effect disappears. From that point on just turn the volume of the sub as preferred. A sub should also not be constantly 'working'. It only needs to kick in when there is something going on below the frequencies a normal woofer can't handle.

I also would recommend to leave everything in factory defaults when talking about other settings besides cut off and volume.
 

Time Sparrow

Active member
Apr 12, 2021
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In this case I would play some reference music, tune up the subwoofer volume a bit to notice it better and tune down the cut off frequency till this effect disappears. From that point on just turn the volume of the sub as preferred. A sub should also not be constantly 'working'. It only needs to kick in when there is something going on below the frequencies a normal woofer can't handle.

I also would recommend to leave everything in factory defaults when talking about other settings besides cut off and volume.
Any tips to what tracks could be used? Have a BK electronics xls200 mk2 and even know it adds positively to my system I always find a few tracks don't have enough bass or a bit too much. I know this could be just the recordings but Its good to have a reference track or two as a guide.

Many Thanks
 

AJM1981

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2021
195
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120
Any tips to what tracks could be used? Have a BK electronics xls200 mk2 and even know it adds positively to my system I always find a few tracks don't have enough bass or a bit too much. I know this could be just the recordings but Its good to have a reference track or two as a guide.

Many Thanks
Among the first users of subs were users that liked Church organ music.

If the groundtone of the deepest notes on an organ can be heard without bleeding into higher frequencies is well calibrated. Most normal speakers do well with the overtones of these ranges but can't ground it.

For modern church organ music that goes pretty deep I would recommend the Koyaanisqatsi soundtrack by Philip Glass. Also Hans Zimmer's Interstellar OST is fine.

I think Drum n bass music would do well but for reference their passages might not be long enough.

Try searching for Miami Bass or Booty Bass on spotify or youtube. It's that typical 80s bold subwoofer music that people played in cars. Not really my things but very well to calibrate a few things to taste.

Biosphere's in Triple time might be useful as well.
 
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Time Sparrow

Active member
Apr 12, 2021
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Thanks for your response .Love Drum and Bass as well as dance music in general.
Feel a sub is essential for that type of music. Still hard to integrate perfectly think room acoustics don't help.
 

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