Subwoofer Descision - HELP!!

[tingfoley]

Hi,

Am am in the process of upgrading my home cinema speakers i have purchased the B&W 683s2 fronts with HTM61s2 Centre 685s2 surrounds powered by Yamaha RXA830 amp, I am now looking to top this off with a decent sub, i have heard the 608 and 610 sub and they didnt quite hit the heights id hoped my budget is around £800 for a sub i have seen a few i like and was looking for opinions / recomendations of subs in this price range, So far my shortlist consist of SVS PB-2000 and BK Monilith Plus.

I will be mainly using it for movies with occasional (if any) music listening.

Can anybody give me any advise on the subs i have mentioned or have any other suggestions to consider?

Any input would be greatly appreciated

 

[bretty]

I'm in the market for a sub, too. I've been steered towards SVS subs by a few of the fellas here and I'm glad they did. I'm yet to find a review that isn't completely glowing for their subs. I'll add the caveat that I'm yet to hear one, but I'm pretty sure that the SVS will be way better than the BK which is a massive blunt instrument with not much in the way of finesse. OK for films, but forget about it for hifi duties

 

[Son_of_SJ]

So far my shortlist consist of SVS PB-2000 and BK Monilith Plus.

I can't find a review of the BK monolith Plus, but I assume that you've seen this HCC review of the SVS SB-2000. You might also like this HCC review of the Tannoy TS2.12.

 

[relocated]

You could look at the AVI sub, new, with your budget. It is large and very heavy but boy does it perform and by buying direct from the manufacturer your money buys more kit and pads out less wallets.

 

[bigboss]

You could look at the AVI sub, new, with your budget.  It is large and very heavy but boy does it perform and by buying direct from the manufacturer your money buys more kit and pads out less wallets.

Although this is what the manufacturer says about the sub:

"The AVI 10" Sub is an ultra-high powered model specifically designed for the ADMRSs alone."

So they haven't been manufactured with other brand speakers in mind.

 

[Sliced Bread]

...i have heard the 608 and 610 sub and they didnt quite hit the heights id hoped my budget is around £800 for a sub i have seen a few i like and was looking for opinions / recomendations of subs in this price range, So far my shortlist consist of SVS PB-2000 and BK Monilith Plus.

Is there any particular reason why you've narrowed it down to two ported subs? Sealed subs are usually tight, controlled, more room friendly, and blend with almost any type of speaker. Big ported subs are fun and have a bit more presence than sealed subs, but tend to lack control, which can be demonstrated with the imploding planet in Star Trek - bass should come to a sudden and complete stop (ported subs usually linger a little due to the fact they lack the natural damping abilities of a sealed sub. Pros and cons of both, it's just down to which compromises you can, or are prapared, to live with.

+1 for sealed subs.

I know it's personal preference, but to my ears they tend to sound more more solid.

 

[ellisdj]

Ported subs technically should be better - they do not require room boost to achieve deep bass and are far more efficient so you get much more output for the same power.

If designed properly there should be no issue with speed, starts stops etc

The trouble comes with room interaction - placement I would guess is much more critical - just sticking it in the corner like the ease of placement with a sealed sub is likely to cause a lot of owners problems as the room boost will likely create room modal issues etc that standard eqing will not fix and probably make worse

I have always wanted to get my hands on a good ported sub and see what I can get out of it - I would expect trumendous perfomance but I have never had the guts to buy one because of fear of it not being as good as a sealed sub with music, even though technically this should not be so.

 

[relocated]

You could look at the AVI sub, new, with your budget. It is large and very heavy but boy does it perform and by buying direct from the manufacturer your money buys more kit and pads out less wallets.

Although this is what the manufacturer says about the sub:

"The AVI 10" Sub is an ultra-high powered model specifically designed for the ADMRSs alone."

So they haven't been manufactured with other brand speakers in mind.

Your manufacturer quote is accurate, however your deduction from that quote is not. There are 6 filter settings from 20 - 100hz so it is possible to integrate with a variety of other speakers, but you know that really [or you should do given your knowlege and experience of matters hi-fi/av] don't you.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Although this is what the manufacturer says about the sub:

"The AVI 10" Sub is an ultra-high powered model specifically designed for the ADMRSs alone."

So they haven't been manufactured with other brand speakers in mind.

Your manufacturer quote is accurate, however your deduction from that quote is not.

To save my life, I don't understand how bigboss's deduction can be judged to be wrong.

There are 6 filter settings from 20 - 100hz so it is possible to integrate with a variety of other speakers, but you know that really [or you should do given your knowlege and experience of matters hi-fi/av] don't you.

(said to bigboss)

Wow, sharp .....

 

[bigboss]

You could look at the AVI sub, new, with your budget.  It is large and very heavy but boy does it perform and by buying direct from the manufacturer your money buys more kit and pads out less wallets.

Although this is what the manufacturer says about the sub:

"The AVI 10" Sub is an ultra-high powered model specifically designed for the ADMRSs alone."

So they haven't been manufactured with other brand speakers in mind.

Your manufacturer quote is accurate, however your deduction from that quote is not.  There are 6 filter settings from 20 - 100hz so it is possible to integrate with a variety of other speakers, but you know that really [or you should do given your knowlege and experience of matters hi-fi/av] don't you.

A 200 watt subwoofer for £800 is hardly good value even if direct from manufacturer, don't you agree?

Lack of reviews and demo facilities doesn't help. Has anyone used the subwoofer in non-AVI systems?

 

[bigboss]

Active speakers are different. AVI have a USP there. But most subwoofers are active. So there's nothing new on offer to justify the price. The manufacturer has advertised the subwoofer as partnering AVI speakers only. So they're not really interested in a market beyond AVI.

 

[bigboss]

Both BK and SVS are specialist subwoofer manufacturers, and personally I'll trust them to produce superior subwoofers than AVI who made the subwoofer to partner AVI speakers only.

 

[jonathanRD]

The OP says that the sub will be used for movies with the occasional (if any) music listening.

So there's little point considering subs that are designed / or good with music, at the expense of those primarily designed for movies.

When I was trying to decide (albiet with a lower budget), I contacted BK and they advised that if I was mostly movies to go with the ported Monolith, but if I was 50/50 (music/movies) to go for the XXLS400 sealed sub.

 

[Frank Harvey]

...i have heard the 608 and 610 sub and they didnt quite hit the heights id hoped my budget is around £800 for a sub i have seen a few i like and was looking for opinions / recomendations of subs in this price range, So far my shortlist consist of SVS PB-2000 and BK Monilith Plus.

Is there any particular reason why you've narrowed it down to two ported subs? Sealed subs are usually tight, controlled, more room friendly, and blend with almost any type of speaker. Big ported subs are fun and have a bit more presence than sealed subs, but tend to lack control, which can be demonstrated with the imploding planet in Star Trek - bass should come to a sudden and complete stop (ported subs usually linger a little due to the fact they lack the natural damping abilities of a sealed sub. Pros and cons of both, it's just down to which compromises you can, or are prepared, to live with.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Whether designed properly or not, ported subs create phase issues, and have very little output below the frequency the port has been tuned to. Their ability to stop isn't a room issue (although it can be), I've physically seen drivers continue to move with my own eyes, basically because they lack the natural damping that sealed subs have. Yes, sealed subs aren't as efficient, but they do everything more accurately, which is why you won't see a sub designer like Ken Kreisel using them - that and the fact that they cause phase issues, which isn't good for monitoring/sound design when mastering films.

A good subwoofer can be used for both movies and music, but when recommending ported subs, I'd generally keep recommendations to movies only, as they can be fun.

 

[relocated]

Active speakers are different. AVI have a USP there. But most subwoofers are active. So there's nothing new on offer to justify the price. The manufacturer has advertised the subwoofer as partnering AVI speakers only. So they're not really interested in a market beyond AVI.

Whatever you say BB, I'm sure you're right,,,,,,,,,,,,, in your own little universe. I've heard plenty of subs and owned a REL so I know where my money would go. The idea that the AVI sub wouldn't go with other brands of speakers is preposterous, you demean yourself; just as with the notion that AVI aren't interested in selling their subs to a non-AVI household.

If you ever hear one, you know like I have, then you'll realise what a less than sensible chap you're making of yourself.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

A good subwoofer can be used for both movies and music, but when recommending ported subs, I'd generally keep recommendations to movies only, as they can be fun.

In my bedrooms I have two sealed Tannoy TS12 subs, and in the front bedroom I have two smaller sealed Tannoy TS10 subs. In the kitchen the SVS PC12-Plus subwoofer is tuned to 16Hz (two out of three ports open) and in the parlour the old-style 750W Bash amplifier SVS PC13-Ultra subwoofer is tuned to 10Hz (one of three ports open). I don't use any of the subwoofers for music, they are for films only.

 

[bigboss]

Active speakers are different. AVI have a USP there. But most subwoofers are active. So there's nothing new on offer to justify the price. The manufacturer has advertised the subwoofer as partnering AVI speakers only. So they're not really interested in a market beyond AVI.

Whatever you say BB, I'm sure you're right,,,,,,,,,,,,, in your own little universe.  I've heard plenty of subs and owned a REL so I know where my money would go.  The idea that the AVI sub wouldn't go with other brands of speakers is preposterous, you demean yourself; just as with the notion that AVI aren't interested in selling their subs to a non-AVI household. ?

If you ever hear one, you know like I have,  then you'll realise what a less than sensible chap you're making of yourself.  

Attacking me for no reason doesn't help. You haven't answered my 2 main questions:

1) Are there any reviews of the sub, or any user reviews where the sub has been used with Non-AVI speakers or a 5.1 / 7.1 system?

2) Has the manufacturer advertised the subwoofer to be used with any other system other than AVI? If not, has the manufacturer even tested the subwoofer with other speakers?

As explained by other poster, the OP wants a subwoofer for movies mainly, and this is a musical subwoofer. 200 watts may be adequate for music, but quite weak for movies in a reasonably sized room.

It's not that the subwoofer is even cheap, even though direct from manufacturer. You can get much more powerful subwoofers from specialist subwoofer manufacturers for the same price.

I've never involved myself in arguments about AVI speakers. As active speakers they sure must be amongst the best. But when it comes to movies, I don't think the AVI subwoofer is suitable for the OP.

 

[relocated]

Active speakers are different. AVI have a USP there. But most subwoofers are active. So there's nothing new on offer to justify the price. The manufacturer has advertised the subwoofer as partnering AVI speakers only. So they're not really interested in a market beyond AVI.

Whatever you say BB, I'm sure you're right,,,,,,,,,,,,, in your own little universe. I've heard plenty of subs and owned a REL so I know where my money would go. The idea that the AVI sub wouldn't go with other brands of speakers is preposterous, you demean yourself; just as with the notion that AVI aren't interested in selling their subs to a non-AVI household.

If you ever hear one, you know like I have, then you'll realise what a less than sensible chap you're making of yourself.

Attacking me for no reason doesn't help. You haven't answered my 2 main questions:

1) Are there any reviews of the sub, or any user reviews where the sub has been used with Non-AVI speakers or a 5.1 / 7.1 system?

2) Has the manufacturer advertised the subwoofer to be used with any other system other than AVI? If not, has the manufacturer even tested the subwoofer with other speakers?

As explained by other poster, the OP wants a subwoofer for movies mainly, and this is a musical subwoofer. 200 watts may be adequate for music, but quite weak for movies in a reasonably sized room.

It's not that the subwoofer is even cheap, even though direct from manufacturer. You can get much more powerful subwoofers from specialist subwoofer manufacturers for the same price.

I've never involved myself in arguments about AVI speakers. As active speakers they sure must be amongst the best. But when it comes to movies, I don't think the AVI subwoofer is suitable for the OP.

I didn't think you had and you're as entitled to your opinion as any one. The trouble is you've taken a phrase, misinterpreted it and then backed yourself into a corner.

AVI used to build another sub-sat system, the sub of which was totally unsuited to use with the then 'new' 9 series actives, hence the 'built exclusively for' blah, blah. I believe the other sub contained amps to drive the 'passive' satellite/bookshelf speakers, so a bit of a chalk and cheese situation.

Whatever. I'm not here to sell AVI speakers so I'm not interested in your questions. The OP was asking for suggestions about a sub up to £800, so I told him about it; for him to make up his own mind as to whether my suggestion was relevant for his needs. The AVI is spot on £800 and is very good. The drive unit is massive for a 10" with great weight and excursion, coupled with overall bombproof build and weighs in at 35Kgs. You've not heard one so your opinion is not based on experience, mine is.

You'll not admit your mistake, I won't bother looking at this thread again, so you'll be wasting your wind if you reply.

We all make mistakes BB, it's just your turn this time, I hope you won't lose sleep over it, I certainly won't.

 

[bigboss]

You'll not admit your mistake, I won't bother looking at this thread again, so you'll be wasting your wind if you reply. ?

We all make mistakes BB, it's just your turn this time, I hope you won't lose sleep over it, I certainly won't.

No idea what you're on about.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Bigboss, I too am struggling to identify what your mistake is, in relocated's eyes. Still, he won't be looking at this thread again, so we'll never find out!

 

[tingfoley]

Thanks for your responses guys, id never really thought about a non ported sub purely because i wanted the lower frequency / deeper bass, I will be mostly using it for movies so music isnt really an issue with me, I am not adverse to a non ported sub i just wanted a good allround performer and reading reviews showed that ported were the prefered choice for movies and sealed for music.

Again this is not from personal experience just what id read hence why im on here

I am relatively new to the higher end systems and have only ever bought cheap components so thoght id invest in something decent.

Really appreciate all the advise so thank you.

 

[tingfoley]

Thanks for your responses guys, id never really thought about a non ported sub purely because i wanted the lower frequency / deeper bass, I will be mostly using it for movies so music isnt really an issue with me, I am not adverse to a non ported sub i just wanted a good allround performer and reading reviews showed that ported were the prefered choice for movies and sealed for music.

Again this is not from personal experience just what id read hence why im on here

I am relatively new to the higher end systems and have only ever bought cheap components so thoght id invest in something decent.

Really appreciate all the advise so thank you.