MakkaPakka said:
steve_1979 said:
CnoEvil said:
steve_1979 said:Shame.
I always thought it would be cool to have an arch nemesis. :twisted:
CnoEvil said:A right of reply.
My nemesis over on the Darkside has made some big assumptions about what, and how I think, and has somehow made "Listening, and making up one's own mind" sound like a ludicrous thing to do.....though I can see how encouraging this in certain circumstances, can have its advantages.
I'm intrigued that I'm seen as the one with the entrenched opinion, when it is others who lay down the law as to what is science, what is Foo and won't try for themselves, all while dogmatically telling others that disagree with them, that they are foolish and gullible......now I wonder where that approach comes from.
My history that lead to my position is as follows: I had read the arguments on both sides, and was in fact very sceptical. I decided to take a measured approach, and actually went about it in a fashion that was quite close to the method mentioned (despite the implication that I wouldn't). I took a bunch of cables at a variety of prices, waited till everyone was out and started messing about.
I had mains cables from Cardas, Audioquest, TCI, Clearer Audio and Atlas. I did a lot of swapping about, and what I found was that it made a worthwhile difference to my amps, and no difference to the Linn DS (some made it worse). I found this strange because I had always been told that it would have the biggest effect on the Source. I suspect that it was something to do with the fact that the Linn Dynamik power supply is doing a great job.
To confirm my findings, I went to my most sceptical friend, who was one of the few people I knew that was into hifi. He made all the same arguments that are played out ad infinitum, on most cable threads.
We played some music on the AVR600 with the standard lead, then changed to the Cardas one. The difference was so apparent, that he looked at me and accused me of making some underhand tweak. He wouldn't believe me until he personally changed the leads back and forth himself. He went away scratching his head as it flew in the face of everything he believed in (due to a science background). He now has made up his own cables, and can hear the benefit.
I know it's a cliché, but I also brought my daughter and Mrs. Cno into the fray, and they could tell when an after-market cable was put into the amp (without knowing), provided I didn't take too long to change it over.
I have also been to cable demos by TCI, Atlas, Vertere and TQ...and the result was the same.
I have never taken anybody's word for anything and always experiment. I have heard cables make no difference, and in some cases make things worse.....so this doesn't equate with the accusation that I'm simply hearing an improvement due to expectation bias.
Am I entrenched....possibly; though it's based on doing a lot of practical research...the results of which have been far from predictable. I feel it at least gives me the right to put my view across.
My position is this; imagine you are standing looking at an Aardvark, while typing so on a forum. Then people on the forum queue up to tell you that it's not possible, as they don't exist in your country. You reply that it is, as you are looking directly at it.
You ask if they have ever either been to your country, or even seen an Aardvark. To which they reply that they haven't (on both counts), but they don't need to, as they know it's not possible. The suggestion is that you need to get your eyes checked, and not to post any further comments, as it will mislead anyone who reads it (into believing such nonsense).
Now you don't need to tell me that the above example is a little OTT, but it makes the point from my perspective.
I know none of this amounts to proof, which is why I always state it as my opinion......and tell people to try for themselves.
The "Foo Fighters" make sure that they argue in such a dogmatic way, that they have an answer for every eventuality
- We are right, because Science says so
- We don't need to listen because there is no need, as science says it's impossible
- If you hear a difference, it is imaginary due to "expectation bias."
- Anyone recommending that you even try a cable is being irresponsible.
- Any proof you think you have isn't reliable
- Everything that a cable manufacturer is nonsense
- The people who say there is a benefit are brainwashing the reader, so anything they hear is unreliable.
Cno (absolute bastard) - over and out.
Oops, didn't mean to talk about cables again.
TrevC said:
TrevC said:
manicm said:
CnoEvil said:TrevC said:
:rofl:
....and me......but not too comfy, with my back.
TrevC said:
CnoEvil said:TrevC said:
:rofl:
....and me......but not too comfy, with my back.
busb said:I recommend a Ekornes Stressless for back problems & relaxed listening (or for those who don't trust their hearing ever - pouring over graphs & specs in comfort)
Although I don't always agree with your PoV, you've always struck me as someone who is thoughtful, courteous & willing to listen to others with differing views - something not always reciprocated.
There are also good & bad scientists & engineers. Good ones rarely use the word "impossible" - they prefer "unlikely"!
CnoEvil said:
oke:CnoEvil said:A right of reply.
My nemesis over on the Darkside has made some big assumptions about what, and how I think, and has somehow made "Listening, and making up one's own mind" sound like a ludicrous thing to do.....though I can see how encouraging this in certain circumstances, can have its advantages.
I'm intrigued that I'm seen as the one with the entrenched opinion, when it is others who lay down the law as to what is science, what is Foo and won't try for themselves, all while dogmatically telling others that disagree with them, that they are foolish and gullible......now I wonder where that approach comes from.
My history that lead to my position is as follows: I had read the arguments on both sides, and was in fact very sceptical. I decided to take a measured approach, and actually went about it in a fashion that was quite close to the method mentioned (despite the implication that I wouldn't). I took a bunch of cables at a variety of prices, waited till everyone was out and started messing about.
I had mains cables from Cardas, Audioquest, TCI, Clearer Audio and Atlas. I did a lot of swapping about, and what I found was that it made a worthwhile difference to my amps, and no difference to the Linn DS (some made it worse). I found this strange because I had always been told that it would have the biggest effect on the Source. I suspect that it was something to do with the fact that the Linn Dynamik power supply is doing a great job.
To confirm my findings, I went to my most sceptical friend, who was one of the few people I knew that was into hifi. He made all the same arguments that are played out ad infinitum, on most cable threads.
We played some music on the AVR600 with the standard lead, then changed to the Cardas one. The difference was so apparent, that he looked at me and accused me of making some underhand tweak. He wouldn't believe me until he personally changed the leads back and forth himself. He went away scratching his head as it flew in the face of everything he believed in (due to a science background). He now has made up his own cables, and can hear the benefit.
I know it's a cliché, but I also brought my daughter and Mrs. Cno into the fray, and they could tell when an after-market cable was put into the amp (without knowing), provided I didn't take too long to change it over.
I have also been to cable demos by TCI, Atlas, Vertere and TQ...and the result was the same.
I have never taken anybody's word for anything and always experiment. I have heard cables make no difference, and in some cases make things worse.....so this doesn't equate with the accusation that I'm simply hearing an improvement due to expectation bias.
Am I entrenched....possibly; though it's based on doing a lot of practical research...the results of which have been far from predictable. I feel it at least gives me the right to put my view across.
My position is this; imagine you are standing looking at an Aardvark, while typing so on a forum. Then people on the forum queue up to tell you that it's not possible, as they don't exist in your country. You reply that it is, as you are looking directly at it.
You ask if they have ever either been to your country, or even seen an Aardvark. To which they reply that they haven't (on both counts), but they don't need to, as they know it's not possible. The suggestion is that you need to get your eyes checked, and not to post any further comments, as it will mislead anyone who reads it (into believing such nonsense).
Now you don't need to tell me that the above example is a little OTT, but it makes the point from my perspective.
I know none of this amounts to proof, which is why I always state it as my opinion......and tell people to try for themselves.
The "Foo Fighters" make sure that they argue in such a dogmatic way, that they have an answer for every eventuality
- We are right, because Science says so
- We don't need to listen because there is no need, as science says it's impossible
- If you hear a difference, it is imaginary due to "expectation bias."
- Anyone recommending that you even try a cable is being irresponsible.
- Any proof you think you have isn't reliable
- Everything that a cable manufacturer is nonsense
- The people who say there is a benefit are brainwashing the reader, so anything they hear is unreliable.
Cno (absolute bastard) - over and out.
Oops, didn't mean to talk about cables again.
byakuya83 said:
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