Sub and Rear Heights/Atmos

[rocketrazor]

Ta, trouble is im actually limited to one place in my lounge, unless the idea i just had is a winner? Could be utterly brilliant, could be completed rubbish!

My tv is in a corner on an av stand. There is enough space behind the stand to fit the sub. Is there any reason why I shouldn't put it behind my av stand and equipment? It's downward firing so I'm hoping it might be a good idea?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I couldn’t say what it’s going to sound like stuck in a corner it might sound ok but you never no but understand when your not got a lot of room to play with . As long as you setup the subwoofer properly so the sub blends in with your speakers and set the crossover at 80hz in the Av setup .

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

On sub positioning.

Did you know that on the old P and O class RN submarines they used to put cushions on top the beer barrels in the petty officer's mess so they could use them as stools? The torpedo tubes were also designed with a flat ledge just inside the inboard door, sized to take a standard UK beer crate so bottled beer could be chilled. Honest.

Just an idea how to hide your sub....

 

[rocketrazor]

Sub has arrived today. Set in place but not had chance to set up properly. Question is if I use the audyssey on my amp to help where do I start with the settings for gain, and frequency control? The manual says gain at minimum and frequency control to 120Hz and then to adjust accordingly but if using audyssey the amp should set these but I'm not sure on starting positions? Can anyone help?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Set your AVR to LFE "on" set the crossover frequency on the sub at 120 Hz, the volume knob on the sub at half-way and run Audessey. Then adjust manually to suit your ears and room acoustics.

 

[rocketrazor]

Sub set up. I'm not blown away by it yet but I am impressed. I need to do some tweaking to get it right. I can notice the difference with the sub on rather than off so that's good but it's not as deep as I thought. Will tweak away!

 

[rocketrazor]

So my amp says the following

Speakers/Crossovers

Front 40hz

Centre 80hz

Surround 100hz

yet under the Speakers/bass the LPF for LFE is 120hz

my sub is set to 120hz.

im a little confused by this. Does it mean my sub kicks on at 40hz or 120hz?

ta

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I think repeat think this means your fronts are receiving signals down to 40 Hz, you centre down to 80 Hz, etc. and everything below those frequencies is cut off from the respective speakers. Your sub is receiving everything below 120 Hz, meaning there is some overlap, but nothing to worry about.

 

[bigboss]

Set all speakers to 80 or 100Hz and see how it performs.

Which sub is it?

 

[newlash09]

You will have to check in your sub woofer settings in the avr. Do you have 'LFE' or 'LFE+mains enabled'

LFE+mains - your floor standers are generating everything between 120 to 40 Hz ( of course above 120hz too ), and your sub everything below 120hz till as deep as it can go.

LFE - your floor standers are only generating anything above 120hz. And sub is doing everything below 120hz.

As regarding your center and surrounds. They are only generating sound above their cross over frequency, in both the LFE or LFE+sub setting.

 

[rocketrazor]

I think repeat think this means your fronts are receiving signals down to 40 Hz, you centre down to 80 Hz, etc. and everything below those frequencies is cut off from the respective speakers. Your sub is receiving everything below 120 Hz, meaning there is some overlap, but nothing to worry about.

that makes sense, ta

 

[rocketrazor]

Set all speakers to 80 or 100Hz and see how it performs.

Which sub is it?

ill try amending this either tomorrow morning or Wednesday evening when the better half is out. I don't get much time in the evenings after putting the little one to bed, then it takes two and I'm a celeb!

 

[rocketrazor]

You will have to check in your sub woofer settings in the avr. Do you have 'LFE' or 'LFE+mains enabled'

LFE+mains - your floor standers are generating everything between 120 to 40 Hz ( of course above 120hz too ), and your sub everything below 120hz till as deep as it can go.

LFE - your floor standers are only generating anything above 120hz. And sub is doing everything below 120hz.

As regarding your center and surrounds. They are only generating sound above their cross over frequency, in both the LFE or LFE+sub setting.

i tried both and didn't notice much difference. I've set my fronts (they are floor standing) to large and small and the LFE to LFE and LFE+mains. Didn't notice much difference. I've also set the low output on the sub higher than recommended as I had no bass after running audyssey. Need to turn it to full pelt but can't in the evenings just yet unless the better half is out!

 

[rocketrazor]

Sorry bigboss forgot to mention it's the BK P12-300SB DF I've got so not top end but not a weak sub according to all the reviews

 

[newlash09]

In my setup there is a considerable difference between setting speakers either large or small. And the difference between lfe & lfe+mains is not so much.

So iam lost why you are not having differences. I will try to explain as best as I can about lfe, that I know. So you can try to figure out what is happening in your room.

LFE means the .1 channel in a Dolby movie track. And this dedicated channel covers a audio band width of 200 to 3 Hz.

In 2 channel stereo, this audio band width is included in the left and right channel itself, and is not encoded seperately.

But it is encoded seperately in a movie track. So in the marantz you have options to decide if the sub produces the entire lfe channel or will the main front floorstanders also share this band width.

Since you have set LPF for LFE as 120hz. This basically means that all sound below 120hz will go to sub if you choose 'LFE' under subwoofer settings.

Since your front speakers are crossed over at 40hz, if you set the subwoofer as 'LFE+mains', the sub will produce everything below 120hz. And your main front speakers will also join the party, and will play frequencies till 40 Hz.

Now if there is audio sound in the remaining 5 channel track, that falls below the cross over frequency of the respective speaker, then same will be routed to your sub woofer.

This is generally how it works. I have gone through your setup post. And I think you set the crossover in your sub manually at 120 Hz and then did audyssey calibration. So now try turning that cross over dial to max position, which is usually the bypass position. In this position the sub crossover is handled by the marantz and not by the sub. Try doing your audyssey calibration again with below settings.

Go to manual speaker setup, and set all your speakers to small.

Go to sub woofer settings, and set sub woofer as 'LFE'

On the sub woofer, turn the crossover knob to max or bypass position.

Set your subwoofer volume at 8 o'clock position. When you start your audyssey setup, the marantz will say that your sub volume is too low. Then increase as required. Usually 10 o'clock position is ideal.

Please try this and let us know. All the best

 

[rocketrazor]

Had a play tonight with the settings on the amp.

changed the crossover to 80hz for the fronts and didn't notice much difference, maybe a slight drop in bass overall sound field so returned to 40hz. Played around with small/large fronts, crossover on fronts as 40hz and full band and bass as LFE and LFE+mains.

not a lot of difference overall but think I've settled on large fronts, bass as LFE only and the fronts at full range and LPF for LFE at 120hz.

sub is currently set as follows

Phase 0

frequency 120hz (max)

filter out/lfe

lo level gain 2 o'clock

when inchanged the phase on install I noticed no difference. Frequency I haven't changed at all, filter out/LFE either made no difference or I lost sound can't remember which. Lo level gain I amended to get my bass back but want to try cranking right up full!

cheers guys appreciate the help

 

[bigboss]

Try this if you can afford:

http://www.bkelec.com/anti-modes/AM8033Cinema.htm

 

[rocketrazor]

Cheer bigboss but I don't think I'll get that past the better half!

i have had another play this morning and I'm now at a stage where I'm very happy with the balance and set up. It might not be the optimal set up but I tried a lot of different stuff and some just didn't make any difference so I've set up how it sounds best to me, rightly or wrongly!

i did crank my lo gain to max, won't do that again in a hurry *shok*

at least I'm happy now and think the sub was really worth the money. Can't believe what I've been missing!

thanks again for all your help chaps. Really appreciate it

Rocket

 

[Samd]

Try this if you can afford:

http://www.bkelec.com/anti-modes/AM8033Cinema.htm

Do you use one? Have considered it before but might buy myself a crissy present!

 

[Andrewjvt]

Same reciever and also changed the crossover and set up.sub
Just wanted to let you know it made a big difference
Fronts/centre on 80hz
Sub 120hz
Gain on sub is on lowest but I've summed up both sub pre outs into the sub (ATC model)

 

[Andrewjvt]

Same reciever and also changed the crossover and set up.sub
Just wanted to let you know it made a big difference
Fronts/centre on 80hz
Sub 120hz
Gain on sub is on lowest but I've summed up both sub pre outs into the sub (ATC model)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

All of your speakers need to be set to small as they are not classed as full range speakers this includes your main L+Rs you also need to let the Av amplifier do the subwoofer control in the settings as you can not set the sub up and the Av to do the same job or there will be conflicting each other so the only setting on the subwoofer you need to adjust is the subwoofers main volume and bypass the rest of the settings on the subwoofer .