Student system

[admin_exported]

I'm a student looking to upgrade my current setup used in my uni house and my (tiny) bedroom during summer at home. CA 540V2 amp with the CA S30s, very nice sound - my first step on the slippery slope of hi-fi! Due to shocking room acoustics at uni, where 90% of usage will be (tall ceilings and laminate floor) and poor source material (320 Kbps mp3s forms the majority of my music collection via external hard drive and laptop) the sound can be a little bright at times, or not so much bright, but displays the classic 'hardness' of digital music. Furthermore, I listen to a ridiculously broad spectrum of music, it would be nice to have just a touch more authority behind some genres music. Not to say I want big bold boomy bass, just a bit more warmth or fullness to the sound, perhaps compinsating for poor room acoustics and without loosing fidelity if possible.

So from here I percieve 2 possible routes. Budget £200ish

1) Used DAC of ebay. Beresford or Dacmagic, using USB input. And using remainder of money to purchase subwoofer (wharfdale sw150) - I like the idea of being able to turn the sub off, or have adjustable volume depending on circumstances

2) Invest in a pair of big bookshelf or floorstanders. My uni room is a fairly large space. Wharfdale 10.2s. Or similar floorstander? Seen a few DJ speakers which I know to be a step away from hi-fi, but seem to offer a strapped-for-cash student a lot of box and drivers for the money. Wharfdale Xarus5000 and Mission MX6 spring to mind. (open to suggestions here!) - this would migitate the need for a subwoofer and would provide a bigger/more dynamic sound. Would also be easier to intergrate?Purchase a DAC soon after.

2.1 w/sub

or

4 speaker setup for 100% music reproduction

 

[ear]

missions would go well with the Ca540

 

[plastic penguin]

Welcome to the forum.

What is the size of your room? It's a tricky one because I don't see a 'quick fix'. Cambridge tend to influence harshness, especially if your room isn't well damped.

Personally, I'd look at source, therefore I can only think of a used Arcam rDac, but whether you can source one within budget is another conundrum.

I could bleat on about how a speaker change will help but without a warmer source I'm not sure it will, to be frank. Perhaps Matthewpiano or The Record Spot or one of the other DACers can be of more help.

Good luck, pp

 

[Anonymous]

2) Invest in a pair of big bookshelf or floorstanders. My uni room is a fairly large space.

Remember you may have to transport this stuff up to 6 times a year and one year your room may be smaller!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply.

I am aware that using mostly mp3s as my source (do have a growing number of FLAC files when I can find them to buy online!) is my first and largest hurdle which is affecting the sound of my system. But I should mention here that I'm not nessacarily complaining about the sound from my system, for the money that I paid (£250 in total plus cables), I am overwhelming satisfied. Additionally when using my system in my smaller room at home, the sound is a completely kettle of fish. I had no idea that room acoustics could make a big difference; matching a speaker to a room is probably the most underestimated improvement someone can do in my honest opinion. I have forget the fantasy of there being one speaker better than the rest, if that makes sense, they will sound so different just dependent on positioning and room acoustics (all this coming from someone who has only listen to a handful of systems! ignore my opinions if your wise)

I have read countless reviews on the Dacmagic, and some mention a more powerful sound. I believe what hi-fi said something along the lines of powerful or good bass weight. Which would suggest that if I could source one of these and subwoofer it could only be an improvement.

However,

Not to keen on the idea of introducing a subwoofer into a budget system. It could simply overpower the rest of the system or turn it into a fairly elaborate set of multimedia speakers and would lose the clarity and detail that I'm only just discovering from my albeit budget system. I'm not looking to host festivals and concerts afterall. The whardale 10 series has been described as warm-ish. Plus they look the part. Similarly for £200 quid I could pick up a wide selection of used big bookshelf/ smaller floorstanders. All my senses are telling me to add some larger speakers, then I have the best of both worlds. If that is still hard sounding, then a DAC could help, or again last resort a subwoofer

Am I the only one using 320kbps in the 21st Century!?

 

[Anonymous]

2) Invest in a pair of big bookshelf or floorstanders. My uni room is a fairly large space.

Remember you may have to transport this stuff up to 6 times a year and one year your room may be smaller!

Haha you're right. Plus, I would love to the face of my housemates when I need two people to carry massive speakers in September on the first day of the new semester.

I'm too young to think pratically unfortunately. Hopefully they'll fit in with the mountain of stuff in my car

 

[Anonymous]

My 10p worth...For a start there is nothing wrong with listening to 320 kbps MP3's. I have yet to meet someone who can distinguish them from FLAC or WAV.

2ndly Digital music doesn't sound hard. If the system sounds hard it is to do with that or more probably in your case, the room it's being played in, not the source music.

The Beresford DACs are excellent though (I have 2), and will certainly give your laptop a significant SQ boost. A 7520 with USB input is perfect.

If I were you, I'd go that route and save for a sub, preferably something a little better than the wharfedale. Try BK Electronics for a good sub at a good price.

 

[basshead]

Hi Charlie91

I got into hi-fi in uni (just graduated). a few questions: do you use your hi fi for big parties with the volume cranked right up? or is it more for personal use at normal listening volumes? if used for big parties then something like the xarus5000 could be quite handy.

regardin upgrading to a DAC, in my opinion i wouldnt spend too much here... definetely not anything like the rDac or rega Dac. a second hand beresford or similar will do just fine... i'm of the very strong opinion that dacs differ very little unless played through a fairly good system. you may find very small differences from spending 50 or 500 pound. however, if you plan on having a steady upgrade path for your whole system, then investing a bit more in a ~DAC now could save money over the long term as it will survive more amp/speaker upgrades.

my suggestion would be bigger speakers, wharfedale go well with CA and are a warm speaker.... just dont use them for parties at full volume... the tweeters have a habbit of blowing, so are not always student friendly. but really do try new speakers before DACs, if you want a fuller sound then get bigger speakers, simple.

 

[Anonymous]

If it was myself I would get a usb soundcard for your laptop. THis will make a massive difference to your sound. Im presuming you're just using the headphone or line out of your laptop at the moment?

You dont need to spend a fortune. There are many to choose from but my money would go on this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Labs-70SB109500002-Blaster-Surround/dp/B0042RUEQW/ref=tag_stp_s2_edpp_url

If that doesnt give your music more fullness I'll eat my spectacles.

As for speakers I'd be inclined to go second hand. Get a pair of B&W602s. Either s2 or s3s. These will add a good dose of bottom end and will undoubtedly warm up your system. They are a good size so will suit a decent sized room but will not be overkill on a smaller room either.

You should manage to get this on budget. Maybe £225 maximum.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the quick replies, and the reassurance that mp3 can be used in hi-fi!

I think the Beresford is a good shout. Especially as it has a headphone socket for use with my headphones as well; will definetely be utilised.

They will predominantly be used for listening at low to normal listening levels and occasionally used as speakers before the house goes out for the night or after-party or odd houseparty. Although if I'm being honest even the sound currently from my S30s at anywhere near 10 o'clock is loud enough (60/80 wpc). The reason why I was initially tempted by the Wharfdales Xaurus was 1) the price new 2) I know that this will satisfy the upgrade itch 3) take the need for a subwoofer out the equation 4) and when possibly combined with my bookshelf's won't lose too much clairity and agility in the overall sound. However, I'm swaying away from them know as they are just plain ugly, possible overkill and I don't think I will use them enough at loud levels to warrant two 8inch bass drivers and at lower levels there is better gear for the money.

I'm really open to suggestions regarding alternative floorstanders at this price. I know floorstanders are frowned upon by many under £500, but I will need stands for my bookshelfs and postioning would be easier, plus I think it is a big enough room to make them a worthwhile investment. I've done my homework on many at my price point and for used you can get some bargins.

I still have not decided on which path to go down. Although in my head I can see subwoofer becoming both a pain and blessing, attempting to intergrate it for different genres of music etc

 

[basshead]

i agree with that suggestion of b&w 602 s2..... amazing speaker. no idea why they are still not in production! so so saught after stil. I have the b&w 601 s2 which are more than i will ever need for parties. you can get these at 120 - 130 pound on ebay. i will never sell mine though

regarding floorstanders.... be very careful going down this route as a student. my first speakers in uni were floorstanders, which were great in the big room i had. but we students move house annually, and you cant say now if you will have the space for them in your next house. seriously consider this issue. bookshelves can be so much more student friendly! in my current house i do not even have room for my speakers to be on stands. one is on my desk and another on a bookcase. if i had floor standers i doubt i would have anywhere to place them at all.

 

[Anonymous]

My 10p worth...For a start there is nothing wrong with listening to 320 kbps MP3's. I have yet to meet someone who can distinguish them from FLAC or WAV.

2ndly Digital music doesn't sound hard. If the system sounds hard it is to do with that or more probably in your case, the room it's being played in, not the source music.

The Beresford DACs are excellent though (I have 2), and will certainly give your laptop a significant SQ boost. A 7520 with USB input is perfect.

Spot on. People mistake all types of system faults for poor MP3 quality.

I recommend you get some Usher speakers - lots of good kicking sound from the size box - maybe Usher 520s, then get a decent tube amp later like an MC-10L. Tube amps are not always compatible with student life however, but Class A amps are, particularly if the electricity is free.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you very for the reccomendation of the B&W 602s. These do look like a winning ticket at the moment, I have yet to read a bad review and I can't help but notice that there is a pair of s2s and matching set of speaker stands on ebay locally (i'm sure a set of speaker stands will come in useful in my current setup, if not for the future as well) I think your point of how bookshelfs are more versitile or at least have more flexibility positioning-wise is a legit shout and something I will perhaps come to appreciate in the future.

This way I could possible afford a DAC as well. Slightly blowing my budget of 200 to 230 ish.

As for the suggestion of the USB soundcard rather than a USB DAC, could anyone give me some advice on this? I assumed (perhaps unwisely) that a DAC replaced the upgraded soundcard, at least in respect to hi-fi. At that sort of price it certainly is tempting. And as mentioned previously by others, I am wary of spending too much on a DAC at this point, I simply don't think my system warrants anything other than a budget DAC/the gains of anything better is a costly process and room acoustics and positioning limitations outweigh benefits. However I know that my laptop line out, is FAR from ideal.

 

[Anonymous]

From personal experience as a student (2nd year) I can wholeheartadly reccomend the xarus 5000's. House parties are immense with them, but be warned you need a massive amp to fully drive them. ONLY amp I ever had not overheat was a nad c370 (obviously depends how loud you want to drive them).

You will probably (eventually) want a sub aswell if your anything like me. I had a sw 150, outgrew it, got into building speakers and now have a 1000w ported fane xb 18in cab. Corner loaded I can hit over 130db with ease. Crossover set to 85hz on a behringer unit and the sound throughout the spectrum is sublime at all volumes.

It depends how far you want to take it, but if your going to be doing house parties then the MINIMUM I would reccommend is a pair of xarus 5000's.

If your not into doing all this then just go for whatever sounds good to you. I still have the sw150 sub at home with a pair of "hifi" bookshelves on a far more "high end" amp than the nad c370 and frankly I can't stand not having the xarus' and the real sub around. Its not just about the loudness I just feel there is always something lacking. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DO IS LISTEN, AND MAKE SURE YOU LIKE THE SOUND. ALSO MAKE SURE YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE MAXIMUM OUTPUT.

If your living in halls you may

EDITED BY MODS FOR INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE

annoy a lot of people (I did) but for every one that hated me there were 2 that loved me. I depends on the kind of person you are and if you're willing to take the rough with the smooth (once my amp+computer jack) got trashed at a party I was djing at. They payed for repairs so it was fine and we're all still good mates.

btw transporting speakers is a

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pain, but do-able. On the train its an absoloute mission...hence mine are in Leeds at the moment. I miss them dearly (yes I know i'm more than a little bit sad ) Good luck to ya!

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks for the reply.

I am aware that using mostly mp3s as my source (do have a growing number of FLAC files when I can find them to buy online!) is my first and largest hurdle which is affecting the sound of my system. But I should mention here that I'm not nessacarily complaining about the sound from my system, for the money that I paid (£250 in total plus cables), I am overwhelming satisfied. Additionally when using my system in my smaller room at home, the sound is a completely kettle of fish. I had no idea that room acoustics could make a big difference; matching a speaker to a room is probably the most underestimated improvement someone can do in my honest opinion. I have forget the fantasy of there being one speaker better than the rest, if that makes sense, they will sound so different just dependent on positioning and room acoustics (all this coming from someone who has only listen to a handful of systems! ignore my opinions if your wise)

I have read countless reviews on the Dacmagic, and some mention a more powerful sound. I believe what hi-fi said something along the lines of powerful or good bass weight. Which would suggest that if I could source one of these and subwoofer it could only be an improvement.

However,

Not to keen on the idea of introducing a subwoofer into a budget system. It could simply overpower the rest of the system or turn it into a fairly elaborate set of multimedia speakers and would lose the clarity and detail that I'm only just discovering from my albeit budget system. I'm not looking to host festivals and concerts afterall. The whardale 10 series has been described as warm-ish. Plus they look the part. Similarly for £200 quid I could pick up a wide selection of used big bookshelf/ smaller floorstanders. All my senses are telling me to add some larger speakers, then I have the best of both worlds. If that is still hard sounding, then a DAC could help, or again last resort a subwoofer

Am I the only one using 320kbps in the 21st Century!?

Yes, room acoustics is immensely important. When I recently took my curtains down it made a difference. Basically if you hear your voice echo when you talk then that will impact on the sound. My room is the polar opposite: We have so many soft furnishings I have to carefully choose my kit so that it isn't too warm or muddy.

Someone has suggested B&W 602s: Great speaker, probably pound-for-pound one of the best I've heard. However, the 602s can exhibit some top-end harshness. A better choice, if you decide on the speaker route, is Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 or 10.1. They'll pretty much match most brands very well, and Wharfedales I have show no signs of cloying. Sit the stands on some old carpet squares and I doubt whether you'll won't to change them for a long period.

 

[basshead]

Someone has suggested B&W 602s: Great speaker, probably pound-for-pound one of the best I've heard. However, the 602s can exhibit some top-end harshness. A better choice, if you decide on the speaker route, is Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 or 10.1. They'll pretty much match most brands very well, and Wharfedales I have show no signs of cloying. Sit the stands on some old carpet squares and I doubt whether you'll won't to change them for a long period.

good call on wharfedale 9.1's..... they worked very very well with my CA 540 v2. but i feel are a bit of a no go if you do want high volume parties. but for moderate listening volumes they are very very good speakers with a great bit of punch.

for a while i had a 540a v2, wharfedale 9.1's and a pair of b&w 601 s2. the 601's could sometimes be a little brighter than the 9.1's. but a small turn of the tone controls cured this. in terms of bass and loudness the 601's were miles ahead and survived many many parties.

 

[Anonymous]

Charlie

A USB soundcard and USB dac both do the same job. In my experiences a 'proper' hifi dac costs alot more and doesn't justify the price. Ibhave a hundred pound USB soundcard for recording music and a head to head with a dac magic showed no clear winner.differences with flax files just weren't there.

Save the money for the student union!

 

[Anonymous]

A decent USB soundcard will cost £100 or more, something from M-audio would sound pretty good...but you're then spending the money on something that will be designed for music production too. A Beresford, or simiilar will not cost much more, if at all, and you get fullsize headphone socket/amp, and 4 imputs. If you're only interested in music playback then the DAC is the way to go.

AN alternative in your situation, and one I would also be inclined to research is to get a pair of active studio monitors and ditch the amp. You can get some pretty decent speakers for under £300... For example some Yamaha HS50Ms or Berringher Truths... The sound quality will blow away the Cambridge combo and you have one less box to carry. If you fancy trying this option, go down to your local pro audio shop and ask for a demo.

 

[Anonymous]

After reading my post I realise it sounds like I'm implying all actives are nearfield. Obviously that's not so.i just meant the ones mentioned.

 

[Anonymous]

Active speakers are great.I use active tannoys myself but they are for music production and are nearfield. The yamaha and behringers mentioned are great monitors but aren't great for use in big rooms.they are for sitting maybe 1.5m away.I don't know about the behringers but the yamahas are also a little bass shy and have quite a forward treble. Definitely not the sound you seem to be after!

 

[Anonymous]

Many thanks for all your inputs. I've learned a lot from this forum already!

I've decided to go down the speaker option. As I said before Wharfdale 10.2s are available for £179 brand new and the B&W 602s are going for a similar amount. I'll keep an eye out for bargins on ebay. But right now it will become a toss up between the 10.2s and the B&Ws simply dependant on whats available on eBay and my impulsiveness. I'll also pick up a set of stands second hand because I need them (on some car carpet - classy). I'm almost blowing my complete budget but I can see myself easily putting in a few more shifts at work and getting my hands on a DAC or subwoofer very soon.

I would ask which would be better but I'm sure views will be split 50/50! And I'll see what the system sounds like when I get my new speakers.

I'll post some pictures and update you all soon for the internet trawlers looking for reviews like I have been for the past month!

Edit: thanks also for the feedback on the Xaurus (or whatever its called). I think I'll become fustrated by not being able to crank it up often enough.

Charlie

 

[Anonymous]

Hi boys and girls,

Its been a long time since I last posted but I would just like to say thank you to everyone for your suggestions and advice. I ended up with the B&Ws and they sound absolutely fantastic. Hosted a few house parties recently and at a couple of hours with volume at about 12/1, neither the amp or the speakers seemed to batter an eyelid. Sound great. Look great, and the stands are brilliant as well. For a combined price of £150 can't really ask for much more! Looking to grab myself a sub soon, probably a wharfdale sw150 as they are going for around £100 on eBay and sounds perfect for me, so I'll let you know (for prospective budget system internet searchers!) when I get that, but for now I can highly reccommend mysetup or similar. Anyway, I've come to ask another question in the hope you can help again.

I've been trawling (seemingly forever now) about ways which I can get music from my hard drive>laptop to my hi-fi wirelessly. I'm sure many of you know are sighing at my incompetence, alas I can not find anything! Squeebox and Sonos are the commonly reccommended products, but I simply refuse to believe that when living in the century that we do, there is no alternative to spending >£170 just to wireless send music over an already existing network?! Is that just me? I understand that you get more than just this service with these products but is there nothing else that is simplier or simply cheaper?

Streaming youtube, bbc iplayer and all the rest would be lovely but not compatible with my budget. Literally, all I would like is to be able to set up my hi-fi in another part of my bedroom so I don't have to be sitting right next to the speakers for them to work (as all my music is on my laptop - and my mp3 player sounds awful/doesn't hold enough music). If I can control from another room then that is merely a bonus for me. Experimented with a super-long 3.5mm to rca and quality gets degraded just a little too much to be bearable. So I think that its time for me to sort this out finally. IS SB and Sonos the only true hi-fi option?

What about these: http://www.whathifi.com/review/creative-sound-blaster-wireless-for-itunes? You can pick them up on amazon for a little over £60.

 

[tino]

You could try a QED uPlay apt-x Bluetooth receiver and Creative apt-x Bluetooth dongle for less than £100 new. OK you might notice some compression artefacts in the transmitted music, but not that much. It's a good enough technology solution for Chord Electronics, so I think it should be fine (I have a Chordette Gem which is great for audio streaming via apt-x). The added advantage of this approach is that your student pals can play their i-thingies or tunes on their mobile phones onto your system when they pop round, no cable swapping, logging on to wireless networks or sharing files via memory sticks. Just pair up over Bluetooth and go. The QED uPlay should alo be able to sync up to 4 separate devices (but not play them all at the same time).

Another budget option (assuming you already have a phone or tablet) is to use a phone/tablet to control the music player software on your laptop which is plugged into the hifi. It does mean however you won't be using the laptop away from the hifi for other things while you are listening to your music.

PS I'm aware that there are USB wireless audio streamers, and Apple Airport Express ... maybe one of these might work for you, but can't vouch for the quality of the internal DACs.

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps should have mentioned that I am slightly more dubious about spending considerable (student) sums of money on music over wi-fi due to our varying network performance and I would haate it if my music reguarly cut out.

Next year i'm in a house of two other boys so the network should be fine, but for the remainder of this year I live with 3 girls who regularly love watching high-class modern entertainment on itv player/4od (only way is essex and the like) and 4 guys who utilse the internet for their own purposes............. :O

 

[tino]

Perhaps should have mentioned that I am slightly more dubious about spending considerable (student) sums of money on music over wi-fi due to our varying network performance and I would haate it if my music reguarly cut out.

Next year i'm in a house of two other boys so the network should be fine, but for the remainder of this year I live with 3 girls who regularly love watching high-class modern entertainment on itv player/4od (only way is essex and the like) and 4 guys who utilse the internet for their own purposes............. :O

Did you see my previous post about a possible Bluetooth approach?