streaming vs cd

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Im sure this has all been sorted before buy i`ve not been here for ages

Please old standing members Hey anyone explain this about streaming vs cd

I have a yamaha av amp v nice a nad cd player re furbed jpw speakers vv nice with mission surround speakers

i know its very old school but it sounds great in my small house

Been told streaming is the way ok have a ps3 thats meant to have a good dac inbuilt connected sony xperia z3 phone wielessly and via hi quality cable sound quality no where

as good bought a blue tooth transmitter for phone not as good either

So somebody please explain in laymans terms how am i going to improve on sound quality from cd?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You can't......

Digital music services are rubbish a con and it's so blatantly obvious......lol

If you rip your music from CD to hard drive its still a copy and dependent on the quality of your device....... Imo of course.

 

[MajorFubar]

You can't......

Digital music services are rubbish a con and it's so blatantly obvious......lol

If you rip your music from CD to hard drive its still a copy and dependent on the quality of your device....... Imo of course.

It's no more dependent on 'the quality of your device' than a CD is dependent on the quality of your CD player / DAC. Ripping a CD and saving it losslessly has NO detrimental effect on the potential sound quality. Get that single fact into your head and accept it, even if you don't understand it, and you'll be fine.

 

[MajorFubar]

Thompsonuxb, I'll copy this from the other thread, just in case you don't read it there. Because it's important and you need to understand it

Get the old analogue notion out of your head that a copy is worse than the original. It's not applicable in the digital world.

To try and get through to you why it's not applicable, imagine writing down the numbers "1,2,3,4,5,6" on a piece of paper, handing it to someone else and getting them to copy your numbers to a different piece of paper. Then get them to pass their paper to another person, who copies it to a third piece of paper, passes his copy on to someone else, and so on, until there are 1,000 copies, with each piece of paper serially copied from the previous one. Discounting human error and one of the pieces of paper being misred because of poor handwriting, the 1,000th piece of paper will still say "1,2,3,4,5,6" on it. It will be an exact digital copy of your original, 1,000 generations old. That's the premise behind digital copying.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You can't......

Digital music services are rubbish a con and it's so blatantly obvious......lol

If you rip your music from CD to hard drive its still a copy and dependent on the quality of your device....... Imo of course.

It's no more dependent on 'the quality of your device' than a CD is dependent on the quality of your CD player / DAC. Ripping a CD and saving it losslessly has NO detrimental effect on the potential sound quality. Get that single fact into your head and accept it, even if you don't understand it, and you'll be fine.

Funnily enough I am not disagreeing with you.

My quibble is more to do with the hardware used - the sound card from your PC or laptop. The output of your phone or tablet.

My daughter who has an iPhone 6 and I, had a 'sound off' the other day, with me using my Sony Xperia T.

Using Sound Cloud for the source and tracks on our phones - we compared the internal speaker. Headphone performance, using a pair of Sennheiser 205ll.
Output of the usb and analog 3mm jack to stereo RCA via my HT amp the Yamaha ra-1020.

The iPhone won, t'was an epic sound clash (my upgrade comes this week the Xperia Z3 compact it's not over yet....) but anyway the sound quality came nowhere near my cdplayer or blu-ray using a CD.

I have heard systems with a soft front end and have yet to hear one impress.

This idea any old PC, phone, tablet will deliver hifi all you need is a DAC is a myth. It's actually becoming an 'emperor's New cloths' scenario

Maybe the data is the same - the kit sounds worse.

 

[cheeseboy]

Using Sound Cloud for the source and tracks on our phones ....

The iPhone won but the sound quality came nowhere near my cdplayer or blu-ray using a CD.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Using Sound Cloud for the source and tracks on our phones ....

The iPhone won but the sound quality came nowhere near my cdplayer or blu-ray using a CD.

C'mon Cheeseboy comment give me the reasoning, I can't respond to pictures.

.

 

[cheeseboy]

C'mon Cheeseboy comment give me the reasoning, I can't respond to pictures.

you were comparing a compressed file running through two different internal dacs (one one each phone) to a non compressed cd/blu ray plugged in to yet another different dac.

The amount of variables and differences between all the stages are far too great to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion, yet somehow you have managed to do the impossible and draw that conclusion....hence the facepalm.

even doing something simple like making sure the track you were playing on the phones was an uncompressed rip of the one(s) that you were comparing on the CD would have gone a small way to being the least bit meaningful.

 

[cheeseboy]

So somebody please explain in laymans terms how am i going to improve on sound quality from cd?

with your current set up, it may not be possible, but that's down to what you think sounds better. The quickest and easiest way to have a play imho, would be to rip some CD tracks you are familiar with in a lossless format then try playing those back on the ps3 and see how you fare with how it sounds. If you prefer the sound to your cd player, then you've improved on the sound.

The streaming part of it gets muddled nowadays. In super basic (and not necessarily technically correct, but to give you an idea) Streaming is literally just playing the music from a device that doesn't store it. This can be local, so say using your ps3 to playback music that's stored on a pc or nas. Or it can mean from services such as spotify etc, in which case it's coming over the internet.

Hope that helps.... a bit.

 

[matt49]

Hope that helps.... a bit.

Yes -- it's a shame that we've ended up using the same word -- streaming -- for two different things: remote web-based music services (e.g. Spotify, Qobuz, internet radio etc) and home computer audio. It's certainly making Thompsonuxb very confused.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Im sure this has all been sorted before buy i`ve not been here for ages

Please old standing members Hey anyone explain this about streaming vs cd

I have a yamaha av amp v nice a nad cd player re furbed jpw speakers vv nice with mission surround speakers

i know its very old school but it sounds great in my small house

Been told streaming is the way ok have a ps3 thats meant to have a good dac inbuilt connected sony xperia z3 phone wielessly and via hi quality cable sound quality no where

as good bought a blue tooth transmitter for phone not as good either

So somebody please explain in laymans terms how am i going to improve on sound quality from cd?

Its a differcult question and isnt so easily answered as there now so many ways to go about it. CD quallity is CD quality. Its all 1's and 0's weather it's stored on a hard drive or pyhsical media its the quality of the gear that will make the diffence. Streaming servies like tidal offer better than CD quality but you have to have a stable connection all the time and it VERY EXPENSIVE. And its all ever as good as the recording. Think of badly recorded Now albams they will always sound bad as ther mixed badly to start with.

Persoanlly i would just rip your CD's to a NAS, leave the ps3 out of the equation and if you can hook you amp to your network using a sonos connect and then you can navigate your enitire music libary using a simple app on your chosen smart device and then if you want to use a streaming service you can but use tidal or another high res one which sonos is supporting. That way wont be stuck to any one perticular streaming service. you can have them all if you wish there even working to apple music.

The sonos will be the best sounding way..... Having said the playstion 3 can look at a NAS as well i think but im to sure on the in and out with that it been a long time since i had a PS3 but my understanding s that it wont functionas well as the sonos (in regards to apps and having all the streamers in one place).

 

[MajorFubar]

My quibble is more to do with the hardware used - the sound card from your PC or laptop. The output of your phone or tablet.

In which case you're right, we do agree. Sort of. You just need to remember there are plenty of digital amps, digital all-in-ones and USB DACs whose digital-to-analogue circuitry is at last as good as a CD player. These bypass the often-substandard DACs in computers and/or mobile devices and level the playing-field. In fact where a manufacturer makes both a CDP and a digital amp, it's not unusual for the same DAC board to be used in both products.

I found it interesting reading your comparison of the iP6 and Sony smartphones. All the way through to the end I was expecting your conclusion to be that the Sony sounded better. I haven't heard the iP6 but to my ears the SQ of my 5S is inferior to the 4S I had before it, so I wouldn't have been surprised.

 

[BigH]

So somebody please explain in laymans terms how am i going to improve on sound quality from cd?

Streaming servies like tidal offer better than CD quality but you have to have a stable connection all the time and it VERY EXPENSIVE.

I thought Tidal was cd quality? Not better than?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

C'mon Cheeseboy comment give me the reasoning, I can't respond to pictures.

you were comparing a compressed file running through two different internal dacs (one one each phone) to a non compressed cd/blu ray plugged in to yet another different dac.?

The amount of variables and differences between all the stages are far too great to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion, yet somehow you have managed to do the impossible and draw that conclusion....hence the facepalm.

even doing something simple like making sure the track you were playing on the phones was an uncompressed rip of the one(s) that you were comparing on the CD would have gone a small way to being the least bit meaningful.

We were comparing phones - this was not a scientific experiment. It was a real world sound clash!

'Meaningful comparisons'.... seriously?

A common source was used the comparison to CD was an observation.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Hope that helps.... a bit.

Yes -- it's a shame that we've ended up using the same word -- streaming -- for two different things: remote web-based music services (e.g. Spotify, Qobuz, internet radio etc) and home computer audio. It's certainly making Thompsonuxb very confused.

Lol....

Who's confused.....

Neither method sounds better than CD....

 

[Thompsonuxb]

My quibble is more to do with the hardware used - the sound card from your PC or laptop. The output of your phone or tablet.

In which case you're right, we do agree. Sort of. You just need to remember there are plenty of digital amps, digital all-in-ones and USB DACs whose digital-to-analogue circuitry is at last as good as a CD player.  These bypass the often-substandard DACs in computers and/or mobile devices and level the playing-field. In fact where a manufacturer makes both a CDP and a digital amp, it's not unusual for the same DAC board to be used in both products. I found it interesting reading your comparison of the iP6 and Sony smartphones. All the way through to the end I was expecting your conclusion to be that the Sony sounded better. I haven't heard the iP6 but to my ears the SQ of my 5S is inferior to the 4S I had before it, so I wouldn't have been surprised.

It was a fun comparison, the XperiaT being over 2yrs old is generally quieter and less dynamic.

(man, it was like back in the day with 'ghetto blasters')

However the XperiaT's WiFi/throw ability to my tv - the Panasonic 47wt50 was more robust.

Hostilitys will be resumed when my Z3 compact turns up.

 

[rainsoothe]

C'mon Cheeseboy comment give me the reasoning, I can't respond to pictures.

you were comparing a compressed file running through two different internal dacs (one one each phone) to a non compressed cd/blu ray plugged in to yet another different dac.

The amount of variables and differences between all the stages are far too great to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion, yet somehow you have managed to do the impossible and draw that conclusion....hence the facepalm.

even doing something simple like making sure the track you were playing on the phones was an uncompressed rip of the one(s) that you were comparing on the CD would have gone a small way to being the least bit meaningful.

We were comparing phones - this was not a scientific experiment. It was a real world sound clash!

'Meaningful comparisons'.... seriously?

A common source was used the comparison to CD was an observation.

Next time, compare a decent turntable setup with a pair of earbuds in a plastic cup, maybe you'll think headphones are a con as well. Seriously, if you wanna compare digital sources, use a DAC in the same price range as a CD player before arguing for or against something.

 

[matt49]

Hope that helps.... a bit.

Yes -- it's a shame that we've ended up using the same word -- streaming -- for two different things: remote web-based music services (e.g. Spotify, Qobuz, internet radio etc) and home computer audio. It's certainly making Thompsonuxb very confused.

Lol....

Who's confused.....

Neither method sounds better than CD....

I work on the principle that if you don't want to have idiotic arguments, you shouldn't argue with idiots. Bye bye!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

C'mon Cheeseboy comment give me the reasoning, I can't respond to pictures.

you were comparing a compressed file running through two different internal dacs (one one each phone) to a non compressed cd/blu ray plugged in to yet another different dac.?

The amount of variables and differences between all the stages are far too great to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion, yet somehow you have managed to do the impossible and draw that conclusion....hence the facepalm.

even doing something simple like making sure the track you were playing on the phones was an uncompressed rip of the one(s) that you were comparing on the CD would have gone a small way to being the least bit meaningful.

We were comparing phones - this was not a scientific experiment. It was a real world sound clash!

'Meaningful comparisons'.... seriously?

A common source was used the comparison to CD was an observation.

Next time, compare a decent turntable setup with a pair of earbuds in a plastic cup, maybe you'll think headphones are a con as well. Seriously, if you wanna compare digital sources, use a DAC in the same price range as a CD player before arguing for or against something.

Why?

We compared like for like - I would have no problem comparing a turntable to a cdp via the same amp or against a laptop/PC, tablet or phone - each being a source.

Ear buds?

I'd compare earphones too, buds v over ear - again using the same source i.e my phone.

Like for like.

No fancy bells or whistles just listening with what's available as used in normal use by.... er.....users.

These are not scientific, lab controlled test - just real world comparisons.

Part of the marketing is to create the excuses like 'yeah, but it's mp3' - allows manufacturers to sell you 'well if you pay a premium we'll give you in flac which has q higher bit rate....'

My daughter plugs her phone into her Denon 38dab as a source it sounds poor against the built in CD.

But it's acceptable, right?
If indeed the 'data' is the same the kit is not.

Stand alone iPhone retails for £400 plus! Half decent PC/laptop for more.

Your focus is on the wrong thing.

 

[MajorFubar]

My daughter plugs her phone into her Denon 38dab as a source it sounds poor against the built in CD.

But it's acceptable, right?

Stand alone iPhone retails for £400 plus! Half decent PC/laptop for more.

Your focus is on the wrong thing.

True but an iPhone and a laptop are not designed to be hifi-quality dedicated music players right out the box, they are jack of all trades. To a certain extent, that even goes for products like an iPod. If their out-the-box sound quailty from their headphone socket isn't comfortably wasted by a half decent CD player with only one job to do, then something's wrong. But the point is you can level the playing field by plugging them into any one of a plethora of different devices which performs the D->A conversion for them.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Hope that helps.... a bit.

Yes -- it's a shame that we've ended up using the same word -- streaming -- for two different things: remote web-based music services (e.g. Spotify, Qobuz, internet radio etc) and home computer audio. It's certainly making Thompsonuxb very confused.

Lol....

Who's confused.....

Neither method sounds better than CD....

I work on the principle that if you don't want to have idiotic arguments, you shouldn't argue with idiots. Bye bye!

Excuse me?

FFS!....... *lol*

 

[Anderson]

You should all know better than to debate with the village idiot.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

My daughter plugs her phone into her Denon 38dab as a source it sounds poor against the built in CD.

But it's acceptable, right?

Stand alone iPhone retails for £400 plus! Half decent PC/laptop for more.

Your focus is on the wrong thing.

True but an iPhone and a laptop are not designed to be hifi-quality dedicated music players right out the box, they are jack of all trades. To a certain extent, that even goes for products like an iPod. If their out-the-box sound quailty from their headphone socket isn't comfortably wasted by a half decent CD player with only one job to do, then something's wrong. But the point is you can level the playing field by plugging them into any one of a plethora of different devices which performs the D->A conversion for them. 

Exactly but they're being marketed has such with soft music close behind.

That said my HT amp can accommodate all sources from analog, optical, coax to HDMI and USB.

The 38dab does USB and RCA......

So I'm not sure why you'd think a stand alone DAC will magically improve things.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You should all know better than to debate with the village idiot.

I was going to do what I usually do as far as you and your irrelevant posts are are concerned but could not ignore the irony.

The irony you ask.....

That's why no one pays you any mind....

 

[MajorFubar]

The 38dab does USB and RCA......

So I'm not sure why you'd think a stand alone DAC will magically improve things.

Well seeing that I have no idea how your daughter is connecting her iPhone to the Denon, nor the quality of your daughter's music files on her phone, nor the quality of the DAC circuitry in the Denon that its USB connection feeds through, I can't really comment. But bits are bits, and clearly it doesn't matter if the same 1s and 0s come from an iPhone lightning connector or from the surface of a CD. Beyond that, especially in all-in-one devices, there could be god knows how many variables. Which generally is why my preferred option is to use a computer feeding an outboard asynchronous DAC with lossless CD-quality rips, plugged into my regular amp. But other options are available.