Streaming over Ethernet testing

[hammill]

Andrew - so what were you testing and how do you explain the differing results for what is an ethernet connection?

Have you done any tests to see the technical difference to the data after it has been through the 3 methods of transmission? Clearly no data is actually lost.

This suggests that it's not the source sound that is important, but what anything transmitting and reproducing it does.

How can you be sure no data was lost? Isn't the apple streaming using UDP or related, which can lose data or send out of order?

 

[Anonymous]

Should be easy to measure data loss, has anyone?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Andrew - so what were you testing and how do you explain the differing results for what is an ethernet connection?

Have you done any tests to see the technical difference to the data after it has been through the 3 methods of transmission? Clearly no data is actually lost.

This suggests that it's not the source sound that is important, but what anything transmitting and reproducing it does.

What was being tested by my colleagues and the readers was the range of commonly-used transfer methods found in the home - wireless, direct Ethernet and Ethernet over mains - and whether the readers involved thought there were difference in the sound. Clearly they did.

As to the rest of your questions, it seems pointless attempting to answer them, since you give the impression you feel you know the answers already.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

I wonder if WHF will ever do the ultimate reader / listener test?

Use exactly the same system three times and see what views the listeners give... I'd be very interested in the result of that!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Andrew Everard]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of your more insightful posts...

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Actually, when I did 'the big question' one thing I was definately trying to avoid is to hear or see difference where there was no any. or at least I intended to be absolutely sure that if there was difference then I was able to clearly identify and describe it.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Andrew - so what were you testing and how do you explain the differing results for what is an ethernet connection?

Have you done any tests to see the technical difference to the data after it has been through the 3 methods of transmission? Clearly no data is actually lost.

This suggests that it's not the source sound that is important, but what anything transmitting and reproducing it does.

What was being tested by my colleagues and the readers was the range of commonly-used transfer methods found in the home - wireless, direct Ethernet and Ethernet over mains - and whether the readers involved thought there were difference in the sound. Clearly they did.

As to the rest of your questions, it seems pointless attempting to answer them, since you give the impression you feel you know the answers already.

A more eloquent statement of what I have been saying more bluntly previously.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew - so what were you testing and how do you explain the differing results for what is an ethernet connection?

Have you done any tests to see the technical difference to the data after it has been through the 3 methods of transmission? Clearly no data is actually lost.

This suggests that it's not the source sound that is important, but what anything transmitting and reproducing it does.

What was being tested by my colleagues and the readers was the range of commonly-used transfer methods found in the home - wireless, direct Ethernet and Ethernet over mains - and whether the readers involved thought there were difference in the sound. Clearly they did.

As to the rest of your questions, it seems pointless attempting to answer them, since you give the impression you feel you know the answers already.

Andrew, I don't know the answers, which is why I asked.

The question is what is the difference in the data after it has been streamed in 3 different ways?

 

[Andrew Everard]

The question is what is the difference in the data after it has been streamed in 3 different ways?

Indeed, but the readers involved said they heard differences, rather than measuring for them.

 

[Anonymous]

The question is what is the difference in the data after it has been streamed in 3 different ways?

Indeed, but the readers involved said they heard differences, rather than measuring for them.

So what is the difference, there must be some if the readers say they heard some?

 

[The_Lhc]

As to the rest of your questions, it seems pointless attempting to answer them, since you give the impression you feel you know the answers already.

Andrew, I don't know the answers, which is why I asked.

Clearly no data is actually lost.

That's not a question, it's a statement.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, maybe data is lost or is it timing. There must be a technical explanation.

 

[Craig M.]

i'll help you out quantoc. whf don't know why they sounded different - they don't measure anything and rely on subjective opinion. it could've been because there was a difference in the data transmitted. it could've been the placebo effect. it could've been a technical failing of the kit used. i would guess they (whf) had an idea they would sound different, otherwise why run the test? i would want to know the reason why, but i'm not whf.

 

[hammill]

i would want to know the reason why, but i'm not whf.

Agreed, especially when the results are so surprising ( in particular the direct connection only being the preferred choice of one of the three listeners). I could accept that there might be some data loss on the wireless connection (although even that seems unlikely with the data rates required) but it does seem peculiar that wireless should be preferred. Most of the contributors to this thread don't seem to care about why the differences are heard but I certainly do.

I have just received a notification from What HiFi that my subscription cost is increasing and I do have to wonder if it is worth it. The magazine I want to read would be all over a test result like this trying to find out what the hell was going on.

 

[hammill]

i'll help you out quantoc. whf don't know why they sounded different - they don't measure anything and rely on subjective opinion. it could've been because there was a difference in the data transmitted. it could've been the placebo effect. it could've been a technical failing of the kit used. i would guess they (whf) had an idea they would sound different, otherwise why run the test? i would want to know the reason why, but i'm not whf.

I agree. With a result this peculiar (only 1 listener preferred the directly wired connection for example) I would expect WHF to be all over the equipment trying to find out what was happening. This general attitude is why I am cancelling my subscription.

 

[Anonymous]

i'll help you out quantoc. whf don't know why they sounded different - they don't measure anything and rely on subjective opinion. it could've been because there was a difference in the data transmitted. it could've been the placebo effect. it could've been a technical failing of the kit used. i would guess they (whf) had an idea they would sound different, otherwise why run the test? i would want to know the reason why, but i'm not whf.

I agree. With a result this peculiar (only 1 listener preferred the directly wired connection for example) I would expect WHF to be all over the equipment trying to find out what was happening. This general attitude is why I am cancelling my subscription.

Hopefully Andrew will explain why they are not investigating this. It's clearly of interest.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

From now on,all children will be tested by listening to hifi equipment. Anybody not conforming to Government audio sensory perception levels will be decapitated .Only in this way can we ensure the survival of one opinion for all.

Edit- should the equipment prove faulty, pardons will be granted.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Hopefully Andrew will explain why they are not investigating this. It's clearly of interest.

Andrew will, as ever, ask those who ran The Big Question session, and the review team, to respond.

 

[professorhat]

i'll help you out quantoc. whf don't know why they sounded different - they don't measure anything and rely on subjective opinion. it could've been because there was a difference in the data transmitted. it could've been the placebo effect. it could've been a technical failing of the kit used. i would guess they (whf) had an idea they would sound different, otherwise why run the test? i would want to know the reason why, but i'm not whf.

I agree. With a result this peculiar (only 1 listener preferred the directly wired connection for example) I would expect WHF to be all over the equipment trying to find out what was happening. This general attitude is why I am cancelling my subscription.

Why is this peculiar though? We're talking about people's preferences here in a blind listening situation - this isn't something that can be defined by logic, even if some people would like it to be. Logic might dictate that people prefer the taste of Pepsi over Coca Cola in a blind tasting session because it has more sugar in it, yet some people find Pepsi too sweet and therefore prefer Coke - this might seem peculiar to people who prefer Pepsi that others could think that, but it's not really, it's just their own preference.

 

[The_Lhc]

Logic might dictate that people prefer the taste of Pepsi over Coca Cola in a blind tasting session because it has more sugar in it, yet some people find Pepsi too sweet and therefore prefer Coke - this might seem peculiar to people who prefer Pepsi that others could think that, but it's not really, it's just their own preference.

I find it peculiar because I think Coke's MUCH sweeter than Pepsi, you can feel it on your teeth, yuck!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks. It's questions like why should homeplugs make 'voices more prominent'?

Mr Andrews sells filters to use with homeplugs to stop the RF going into the amplifier, not needed here?

 

[professorhat]

Can What Hi-Fi also look into whether the laws of physics will ever be unified into a universal and proven theory of everything?

Ta.

 

[noogle]

Little known fact that the Large Hadron Collider is actually funded and run by Haymarket Publishing...

 

[Anonymous]

I often wonder that is the test was repeated, but with making no changes to the transmission method at all, what the results would be!

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Can What Hi-Fi also look into whether the laws of physics will ever be unified into a universal and proven theory of everything?

Ta.

I'm glad someone else is thinking the same as me.Perhaps WHF could also open a medical centre at the Towers to make sure all BQ participants are working correctly to avoid anything peculiar happening.