Streamer ideas

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I went and bought myself a all in one streamer/dac,amp. (Naim superuniti)...I did have separate amp /dac turntable phono stage psu's etc etc...I had around 8 separate boxes a plethora of configurations knocking around my head and a never ending desire to upgrade them...something had to give.

All is can say is I haven't been more content with my hi-fi than I am just now....along with my pmc twenty 21's it's seamless to use and sounds fantastic for what it is.

Sabbath mate if your quite happy spinning discs..just do that but if you really want to get into streaming...I'd suggest the one box streamer that mirrors the rest of your system and not all those endless configurations with pc/dac roon,dsp,Dirac..it all gets very confusing when all you want to do is listen to your music.

 

[Macspur]

Roon annual membership is $119 and lifetime $500. Of which if decide to upgrade they'll give you a discount on the unused portion of your annual.

In pounds that's around £85 for a year and £355 for lifetime.

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Andrewjvt]

I went and bought myself a all in one streamer/dac,amp.  (Naim superuniti)...I did have separate amp /dac turntable phono stage psu's etc etc...I had around 8 separate boxes a plethora of configurations knocking around my head and a never ending desire to upgrade them...something had to give.

All is can say is I haven't been more content with my hi-fi than I am just now....along with my pmc twenty 21's it's seamless to use and sounds fantastic for what it is.

Sabbath mate if your quite happy spinning discs..just do that but if you really want to get into streaming...I'd suggest the one box streamer that mirrors the rest of your system  and not all those endless configurations with pc/dac roon,dsp,Dirac..it all gets very confusing when all you want to do is listen to your music.

Good advice

 

[nopiano]

I went and bought myself a all in one streamer/dac,amp. (Naim superuniti)...I did have separate amp /dac turntable phono stage psu's etc etc...I had around 8 separate boxes a plethora of configurations knocking around my head and a never ending desire to upgrade them...something had to give.

All is can say is I haven't been more content with my hi-fi than I am just now....along with my pmc twenty 21's it's seamless to use and sounds fantastic for what it is.

Sabbath mate if your quite happy spinning discs..just do that but if you really want to get into streaming...I'd suggest the one box streamer that mirrors the rest of your system and not all those endless configurations with pc/dac roon,dsp,Dirac..it all gets very confusing when all you want to do is listen to your music.

Point well made. Less is often more. That's why I'm using the (sometimes derided) Chromecast audio, mostly. It's simple, and unfeasibly good to my ears. The old Squeezebox Touch is also among the best bargains ever.

I find myself dreaming about an Auralic, Zen or Linn DS, but for 50 times the price!

 

[davedotco]

I went and bought myself a all in one streamer/dac,amp. (Naim superuniti)...I did have separate amp /dac turntable phono stage psu's etc etc...I had around 8 separate boxes a plethora of configurations knocking around my head and a never ending desire to upgrade them...something had to give.

All is can say is I haven't been more content with my hi-fi than I am just now....along with my pmc twenty 21's it's seamless to use and sounds fantastic for what it is.

Sabbath mate if your quite happy spinning discs..just do that but if you really want to get into streaming...I'd suggest the one box streamer that mirrors the rest of your system and not all those endless configurations with pc/dac roon,dsp,Dirac..it all gets very confusing when all you want to do is listen to your music.

Good advice

I have just red through the thread and find it somewhat bewildering even for someone who has been around the hi-fi block a good few times.

For anyone who wants to get into quality music playback by streaming from a local source or online, it looks like the whole thing is a complete nightmare.

Sure I get that there are some enthusiasts who are genuinely into all this stuff, but for an ordinary music lover who wants his music to sound 'good', it's enough to make them give up and buy a Bose system.

My own requirements are, I think, fairly typical. I have a small library ripped to iTunes which I want to access, though I listen to most of my music via Spotify. I want Airplay and some sort of radio function (mostly talk) for occasional use and I would like to run my Skybox through the system (Toslink out only), being able to add a subwoofer would be good and being able to use headphones without having to buy another box would be nice.

And, most importantly, it all needs to be controlled in one place with one app, playback volume is essential and some gentle EQ would be preferred. (Though I am happy to use the Spotify client to select music.)

Now, quite amazingly, I can do all that on a WXC50 which costs around £250, occasionally a little less and that's the problem.

It is 'only' £250, cant possibly be good enough can it? I'm not talking about matching it to something really hi-end, just a decent mid-fi system or some active speakers. But £250! really!

 

[ellisdj]

Its actually pretty simple only 3 important factors

The user experience is 100% dictated by the control app - a lot of control apps are average at best some are terrible

Hence the suggestion for trying Roon as their whole business model is based around the quality of that app which 100% dictates the quality of the user experience.

The user experience needs to be intuitive and slick otherwise the magic of having access to the libary becomes a chore and that kills the main advantage of this method.

Secondly is sound quality - does the source sound good enough for the indiviual - only one way to work that one out - listen to it

I suppose thirdly does it have enough storage for your library or access to enough cloud services for the individual

Maybe a fourth is it pretty enough - if you care about looks - the cost for all the above comes after you find what suits your needs - if its cheap happy days

 

[Daz B]

I just read this complete thread and i am totally confused with all this streaming advice. I have always been interested in new technology but not now.
There seems to be too many options and i have trouble getting my head around it all.
The trouble with technology is it is forever changing and updating. Whats good now will be superseeded in months and it will need changing or updating.
I personally would stick with what you got and enjoy that.
Physical media is going to be around for a while yet.

 

[Electro]

I think you already know my suggestion (including a Klimax Renew DS/1 second hand).....which should be compared with the Naim equivalent.

You might find a second hand Electro ECM 1 *good*

The best bit of advice on the whole thread so far. *biggrin*

I will be buying one when funds allow, many of the recordings that I like are not available on Cd so I am going to bite the bullet.

Some info below .

http://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/digital/ECM_1

 

[Oie]

Hi,

As mentioned before what to choose depends of what you want, how much effort you want to put into it and budget.

if you want to stream just music:

A NUC or apple mini with some software, a NAS or external HD and a DAC is an option.

Other option is a streamer, NAS or external HD and DAC.

IF you want also to stream video you have again similar options:

A NUC or apple mini with some software, a NAS or external HD and a DAC.

Again there is the option of a dedicated streamer but as far as I know there are less streamers offering both options.

innuos offer or used to offer an audio/vídeo streamer which could be an easy complete solution.

The NUC or mac mini option offers more flexibility at a probably cheaper price. Downside is that requires to spend some time setting up the software.

The streamer option is easier as there is almost nothing to set up and you have, in general, good customer service.

On both cases you will need some external storage, NAS being the best option, external HD being the cheapest option.

You will also need a DAC. Some streamers have a DAC, most don’t. In my opinion an external DAC offers more flexibility.

So, if I was on your position, great position to be , I would get a DAC and some external storage and I would start streaming using your current streamer. The DAC and external storage should be somehow future proof. You can eventually replace your streamer with a different one or a NUC/mac mini.

Regards,

O

 

[insider9]

Its actually pretty simple only 3 important factors

The user experience is 100% dictated by the control app - a lot of control apps are average at best some are terrible

Hence the suggestion for trying Roon as their whole business model is based around the quality of that app which 100% dictates the quality of the user experience.

The user experience needs to be intuitive and slick otherwise the magic of having access to the libary becomes a chore and that kills the main advantage of this method.

 

Secondly is sound quality - does the source sound good enough for the indiviual - only one way to work that one out - listen to it 

I suppose thirdly does it have enough storage for your library or access to enough cloud services for the individual

 

Maybe a fourth is it pretty enough - if you care about looks - the cost for all the above comes after you find what suits your needs - if its cheap happy days 

 

No, you see Roon actually isn't only about user experience. It is so much more that that. It's about freedom first and foremost.

Guys are round created a way of doing things, an environment, a platform, not a piece of software. It can run on Windows, Linux, OSX, can be controlled from any Roon control app. Android, iPhone or iPad, Windows, OSX. This allows you for massive flexibility. No more I'm on iPhone so can't do something...

Secondly it's all about the RAAT. They wrote a transfer protocol that is 100% for audio and maintain sound quality. This protocol allows what no other available protocol do is switch sampling rates in stream. Meaning you always get bit perfect information. What that also does is allow you full freedom of your home architecture. Not just that Roon is happy to send data to Airplay devices however it will all be resampled.

Roon requires 4 things. A server to run Roon, a data storage, a player to play what server sends and a control device. With Roon these can be one devices (e.g. Windows PC connected to hifi), or as many as you want two like in my case a server on Linux controlled by Android or like in many cases a whole network, one server with many zones, NAS storage or even a cloud and then control devices.

Then there is what data you actually have. Roon won't care if there's any metadata, if tracks are all in different locations (folders or drives or even network locations). If they're in different formats, sampling rates. It will compile a database and let you do with it what you will. It will add all the metadata, link up performers, show you things you didn't know when doing things digitally like who played bass or who produced an album all the things you would know if you had a record in your hand. Add album reviews, lyrics. All of a sudden you will feel like you're browsing music collection not a set of folders. Best part is you can click on most names and explore say you click on a producer and all albums will come up. For example didn't it know Larry Klein the produces of Melody Gardot "My One and Only Thrill" played bass on Peter Gabriel's "So" album? Same guy who played bass and produced some Joni Mitchell albums while briefly being married to her.

I could continue writing explain all the virtues for much longer but the point is it's far from just a good looking app. And with loads on offer an excellent value for money if anything just but the secondary traits like DSP where you can do room correction, Dirac Live equivalent (if you are a able to do filters manually) on every zone.

 

[ellisdj]

I just used roon as an example the interface with the user makes or breaks the experience and is extremely important to pay attention to when you considering a purchase.

It's as important as the sound quality maybe even more so. hence why I put it number 1

 

[Paulq]

Stick with what you’ve got. There’s a lot of OCD type behaviour in hifi forums, if you’ve got a decent CDP that you like (and you do) you’re not really gonna improve it by adding unnecessary stuff to it. The differences between DACs are tiny and you don’t have things like jitter working away in the back of your mind making you wonder if it could somehow be better, because the transport in your CDP will be bit-perfect and jitter is a non issue when using your players analogue out.

My previous post aside (when I thought the OP was dead set on a streamer), this is very good advice. The gains you will hear will be so miniscule that it's simply not worth it and you can get lost in striving for perfection without realising what you have is already very good.

Make yourself a brew, stick a CD on and enjoy what you have. You have a setup that many would be envious of and already have a streamer to go down the NAS route if you decide to. That's the most I'd change. Honestly, save your money.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I think I will keep my Yamaha wxc50 as it does the job and the sound pretty good as I am using my Yamaha cd2100 Dac and not the Yamaha wxc50 Dac and it plays all formats so pointless I feel changing it really .

Ive been looking around YouTube and find a review on the bluesound vault 2 and the people who make it said flac is the same as cd quality so what’s the point in buying a better streamer when the Yamaha wxc50 plays flac and tidal which it does that already and the only way I would find out if a more expensive streamer did a better job would be getting a demo on a better streamer .

But what I’ve read about streamers is they are just convenient why of having all of your music in one place and the support from music library’s like tidal included in one box so the Yamaha wxc50 does this so it’s pointless buying anything better . Here the review....

https://youtu.be/aYgAy1Zl9As

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Ok if you lot can come with some ideas for a really good streamer for me to demo and I do not mind secondhand as long as it’s a good sorce and obviously I want it to be fully balanced as well so I can use the other inputs on my Yamaha 3000 .

its got to have a great onboard Dac as well and great build quality .

i most probably sell my Yamaha A-S2100 amplifier and the money I have saved to buy a good streamer so maybe the budget will be £1500-£2000

And I will try and demo them *smile*

What about a Chord mojo and poly, (sorry if this has already been mentioned coudn't be bothered too read through all 113/14 replys) well under budget and has the added benfit of being a great headphone amp and quality dac as well as being descrete and portable. It for sure would be on my audition list. just my 2 cents

 

[CnoEvil]

My previous post aside (when I thought the OP was dead set on a streamer), this is very good advice. The gains you will hear will be so miniscule that it's simply not worth it and you can get lost in striving for perfection without realising what you have is already very good.

Make yourself a brew, stick a CD on and enjoy what you have. You have a setup that many would be envious of and already have a streamer to go down the NAS route if you decide to. That's the most I'd change. Honestly, save your money.

I have always believed that people need to find their own path, through listening for themselves.

There are those who think DACs and Streamers make little difference - and certainly not worth spending much money on....and there are those who, after listening to a variety of stuff, feel that spending a bit more brings worthwhile benefits.

At the end of the day, either approach is fine by me - and imo, a decision shouldn't happen as a result of what someone (anyone) on a forum says....but as a result of trying different alternatives.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Ok if you lot can come with some ideas for a really good streamer for me to demo and I do not mind secondhand as long as it’s a good sorce and obviously I want it to be fully balanced as well so I can use the other inputs on my Yamaha 3000 .

its got to have a great onboard Dac as well and great build quality .

i most probably sell my Yamaha A-S2100 amplifier and the money I have saved to buy a good streamer so maybe the budget will be £1500-£2000

And I will try and demo them *smile*

What about a Chord mojo and poly, (sorry if this has already been mentioned coudn't be bothered too read through all 113/14 replys) well under budget and has the added benfit of being a great headphone amp and quality dac as well as being descrete and portable. It for sure would be on my audition list. just my 2 cents

I am still keen on demoing the new chord Dac at some point but first I’ve got to list my old amplifier on eBay so if I do like the new chord Dac I’ve brought it with dead money that’s been spent in the past .

And I should be able to take one home from richer sounds to try and if I do not like it or there is no difference I can get a refund I think that sensible

 

[BigH]

Well does not seem much point buying a new DAC, if a streamer will sound better than your CDP and new DAC, a few people seem to have gone that way and are pleased with the results. So it is worth considering, one box could replace 3 of your boxes. Also it is fairly future proof if you buy something like Linn. There are Linn dealers near Cambridge and in Norwich. Think the Linn Majik is under £2k new or you can buy used for about £1,200.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Well does not seem much point buying a new DAC, if a streamer will sound better than your CDP and new DAC, a few people seem to have gone that way and are pleased with the results. So it is worth considering, one box could replace 3 of your boxes. Also it is fairly future proof if you buy something like Linn. There are Linn dealers near Cambridge and in Norwich. Think the Linn Majik is under £2k new or you can buy used for about £1,200.

I am not using the Yamaha wxc50 Dac I never have I have always used the Dac inside the Yamaha CD2100 which is a lot better then the Yamaha streamer Dac So I am only using the Yamaha wxc50 for streaming that’s it .

 

[BigH]

Yes but if you have a CDP, wxc50 and a Chord DAC you will have 3 units.

Do you use an iphone or ipad?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Yes but if you have a CDP, wxc50 and a Chord DAC you will have 3 units.

Do you use an iphone or ipad?

I understand that but a chord Dac is small anyway the Yamaha wxc50 is small and I want to keep playing CDs as well as streaming so that’s not a issue . I use a iPad

 

[BigH]

Yes but if you have a CDP, wxc50 and a Chord DAC you will have 3 units.

Do you use an iphone or ipad?

I understand that but a chord Dac is small anyway the Yamaha wxc50 is small and I want to keep playing CDs as well as streaming so that’s not a issue . I use a iPad

So you arn't going to demo any?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Yes but if you have a CDP, wxc50 and a Chord DAC you will have 3 units.

Do you use an iphone or ipad?

I understand that but a chord Dac is small anyway the Yamaha wxc50 is small and I want to keep playing CDs as well as streaming so that’s not a issue . I use a iPad

So you arn't going to demo any?

I might I will keep my options open I will not rush in into this

 

[Macspur]

The Innuos mini should be here on Friday for me to try.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Dave_]

I think I will keep my Yamaha wxc50 as it does the job and the sound pretty good as I am using my Yamaha cd2100 Dac and not the Yamaha wxc50 Dac and it plays all formats so pointless I feel changing it really .

Ive been looking around YouTube and find a review on the bluesound vault 2 and the people who make it said flac is the same as cd quality so what’s the point in buying a better streamer when the Yamaha wxc50 plays flac and tidal which it does that already and the only way I would find out if a more expensive streamer did a better job would be getting a demo on a better streamer .

But what I’ve read about streamers is they are just convenient why of having all of your music in one place and the support from music library’s like tidal included in one box so the Yamaha wxc50 does this so it’s pointless buying anything better . Here the review....

https://youtu.be/aYgAy1Zl9As

Glad to hear it.

I really do feel you were being led towards making a costly and pointless "upgrade" by the usual suspects....

 

[Andrewjvt]

My previous post aside (when I thought the OP was dead set on a streamer), this is very good advice.  The gains you will hear will be so miniscule that it's simply not worth it and you can get lost in striving for perfection without realising what you have is already very good.

 

Make yourself a brew, stick a CD on and enjoy what you have. You have a setup that many would be envious of and already have a streamer to go down the NAS route if you decide to. That's the most I'd change. Honestly, save your money.

I have always believed that people need to find their own path, through listening for themselves.

There are those who think DACs and Streamers make little difference - and certainly not worth spending much money on....and there are those who, after listening to a variety of stuff, feel that spending a bit more brings worthwhile benefits.

At the end of the day, either approach is fine by me - and imo, a decision shouldn't happen as a result of what someone (anyone) on a forum says....but as a result of trying different alternatives.

While I agree, I also think we need to be careful with people that don't fully understand the technology involved that could easily be impressionable and waste money they don't need.