Spotify Connect, on the cheap.

[unsleepable]

I can't hear any difference between my Macs directly into the DAC or via the Airport Express. Both connections with Toslink. The only difference is the 2 second delay which is always there in AirPlay.

Spotify Ogg-Vorbis files converted to ALAC have no effect on sound quality at all. The conversion shouldn't have any effect at all. ALAC is lossless, so you don't lose any information, even with compressed files like Ogg-Vorbis.

I would recommend that you first do some double blind testing before making statements like 'sharper more focused sound quality'.

[...]

I attempted to be fairly circumspect with these views, giving plenty of ifs and maybes. I even specified my computer setup to try and make it clear that the veiws were from just one setup and quite personel.

Double blind testing, are you serious? Just how do you expect to implement that in a domestic environment or at a dealers? These were subjective evaluations, I did my best to level match and was able to set up the switching so that I did not know whether I was listening to wired or wireless.

Airfoil was clearly a bit 'rough' and 'grainy', Airplay was much less obvious but appeared to lack sharpness and focus, entirely subjective I grant you, though I never suggested otherwise.

As for the conversions, I have no idea how it is done, but as far as I know there is no way to check if the Ogg Vorbis to Alac is totally transparent as you cannot compare the resulting file to the original. Logically you may well be right , I accept that, but I was recounting what I heard. At some point, hopefully quite soon, I shall be able to try Connect and Airplay side by side.

BTW. Did you carry out a 'Double Blind' test to ascertain that your Yamaha R-S500 sounds 'wonderful'.

I was also a long-time Airfoil user until I found out that it has major jitter issues. It is not only that frames are not time-aligned with each other, but that the timing of audio is way too off.

I tried with two different DACs that de-jitter audio coming on the TOSLINK port—my current irDac, and previous Naim DAC-V1. In order to re-clock data, they use a small input buffer from which they take the frames to play according to their own internal clock. So the problem with Airfoil is that timing is so off that it would overrun the buffer. The DAC-V1 would go as far as displaying an error message on the screen saying that it could not reclock the data, and then it would give up; and the irDac would stop playing every few seconds.

I contacted Airfoil about this and they said they would try to resolve it in a later version. I had the impression that they were already quite aware of the issue, and since their response didn't show any commitment, that they didn't really intend to fix it. This was like a year ago and the problem is still there—just opened it to confirm it.

If you use the analogue output of the Airport Express, or connect it digitally to a DAC that does not reclock the audio, you won't have these issues with the music stopping. But the jitter is there all the same, and you can hear it as it affects the detail and the imaging.

 

[iQ Speakers]

For the moment, the desktop version can only work as a slave device. So it works the other way around: if you have Spotify open in your computer, from your mobile you can play music on your computer. And then you close the app in the mobile, or take it out of wifi range, and it keeps working. The mobile just works as a remote, and it's the computer actually playing the music.

Using the mobile Spotify app you can control any receiver that features Spotify Connect. (Boggit "I can with the BETA Desktop!")

The thing is that, at the moment, you can't use the desktop Spotify application to control other devices. So for example, you can't play music in your Stream Magic from the computer.

[/quote] Boggit

With the BETA Desktop version i can and do control my CA Stream Magic, i can even start music playing on my Iphone remotely from my computer.

 

[davedotco]

I can't hear any difference between my Macs directly into the DAC or via the Airport Express. Both connections with Toslink. The only difference is the 2 second delay which is always there in AirPlay.

Spotify Ogg-Vorbis files converted to ALAC have no effect on sound quality at all. The conversion shouldn't have any effect at all. ALAC is lossless, so you don't lose any information, even with compressed files like Ogg-Vorbis.

I would recommend that you first do some double blind testing before making statements like 'sharper more focused sound quality'.

[...]

I attempted to be fairly circumspect with these views, giving plenty of ifs and maybes. I even specified my computer setup to try and make it clear that the veiws were from just one setup and quite personel.

Double blind testing, are you serious? Just how do you expect to implement that in a domestic environment or at a dealers? These were subjective evaluations, I did my best to level match and was able to set up the switching so that I did not know whether I was listening to wired or wireless.

Airfoil was clearly a bit 'rough' and 'grainy', Airplay was much less obvious but appeared to lack sharpness and focus, entirely subjective I grant you, though I never suggested otherwise.

As for the conversions, I have no idea how it is done, but as far as I know there is no way to check if the Ogg Vorbis to Alac is totally transparent as you cannot compare the resulting file to the original. Logically you may well be right , I accept that, but I was recounting what I heard. At some point, hopefully quite soon, I shall be able to try Connect and Airplay side by side.

BTW. Did you carry out a 'Double Blind' test to ascertain that your Yamaha R-S500 sounds 'wonderful'.

I was also a long-time Airfoil user until I found out that it has major jitter issues. It is not only that frames are not time-aligned with each other, but that the timing of audio is way too off.

I tried with two different DACs that de-jitter audio coming on the TOSLINK port—my current irDac, and previous Naim DAC-V1. In order to re-clock data, they use a small input buffer from which they take the frames to play according to their own internal clock. So the problem with Airfoil is that timing is so off that it would overrun the buffer. The DAC-V1 would go as far as displaying an error message on the screen saying that it could not reclock the data, and then it would give up; and the irDac would stop playing every few seconds.

I contacted Airfoil about this and they said they would try to resolve it in a later version. I had the impression that they were already quite aware of the issue, and since their response didn't show any commitment, that they didn't really intend to fix it. This was like a year ago and the problem is still there—just opened it to confirm it.

If you use the analogue output of the Airport Express, or connect it digitally to a DAC that does not reclock the audio, you won't have these issues with the music stopping. But the jitter is there all the same, and you can hear it as it affects the detail and the imaging.

Interesting.

My totally informal, subjective comparisons suggest that Airfoil is inferior sound wise. I have not used it for nearly a year but that was what I found back then.

My Airlay setup was noticeably better I thought, though I have seen the issues of some dacs failing to lock to the AEX. I have had no problems with my setup, though I have only tried a handful of dacs and nothing as sophisticated as those you mention.

I have an early dual band, plug in model, ie, First generation, second version released, and it has been faultless on both digital and analogue outputs in my setups.

 

[davedotco]

For the moment, the desktop version can only work as a slave device. So it works the other way around: if you have Spotify open in your computer, from your mobile you can play music on your computer. And then you close the app in the mobile, or take it out of wifi range, and it keeps working. The mobile just works as a remote, and it's the computer actually playing the music.

Using the mobile Spotify app you can control any receiver that features Spotify Connect. (Boggit "I can with the BETA Desktop!")

The thing is that, at the moment, you can't use the desktop Spotify application to control other devices. So for example, you can't play music in your Stream Magic from the computer.

Boggit

With the BETA Desktop version i can and do control my CA Stream Magic, i can even start music playing on my Iphone remotely from my computer.

[/quote]

Hopefully they will roll this out as an update sometime soon, might even get EQ on the desktop too......*drinks*

 

[unsleepable]

I can with the BETA Desktop!

With the BETA Desktop version i can and do control my CA Stream Magic, i can even start music playing on my Iphone remotely from my computer.

You are indeed right, this feature is now in beta.

 

[Leeps]

I can't hear any difference between my Macs directly into the DAC or via the Airport Express. Both connections with Toslink. The only difference is the 2 second delay which is always there in AirPlay.

Spotify Ogg-Vorbis files converted to ALAC have no effect on sound quality at all. The conversion shouldn't have any effect at all. ALAC is lossless, so you don't lose any information, even with compressed files like Ogg-Vorbis.

I would recommend that you first do some double blind testing before making statements like 'sharper more focused sound quality'.

[...]

I attempted to be fairly circumspect with these views, giving plenty of ifs and maybes. I even specified my computer setup to try and make it clear that the veiws were from just one setup and quite personel.

Double blind testing, are you serious? Just how do you expect to implement that in a domestic environment or at a dealers? These were subjective evaluations, I did my best to level match and was able to set up the switching so that I did not know whether I was listening to wired or wireless.

Airfoil was clearly a bit 'rough' and 'grainy', Airplay was much less obvious but appeared to lack sharpness and focus, entirely subjective I grant you, though I never suggested otherwise.

As for the conversions, I have no idea how it is done, but as far as I know there is no way to check if the Ogg Vorbis to Alac is totally transparent as you cannot compare the resulting file to the original. Logically you may well be right , I accept that, but I was recounting what I heard. At some point, hopefully quite soon, I shall be able to try Connect and Airplay side by side.

BTW. Did you carry out a 'Double Blind' test to ascertain that your Yamaha R-S500 sounds 'wonderful'.

I was also a long-time Airfoil user until I found out that it has major jitter issues. It is not only that frames are not time-aligned with each other, but that the timing of audio is way too off.

I tried with two different DACs that de-jitter audio coming on the TOSLINK port—my current irDac, and previous Naim DAC-V1. In order to re-clock data, they use a small input buffer from which they take the frames to play according to their own internal clock. So the problem with Airfoil is that timing is so off that it would overrun the buffer. The DAC-V1 would go as far as displaying an error message on the screen saying that it could not reclock the data, and then it would give up; and the irDac would stop playing every few seconds.

I contacted Airfoil about this and they said they would try to resolve it in a later version. I had the impression that they were already quite aware of the issue, and since their response didn't show any commitment, that they didn't really intend to fix it. This was like a year ago and the problem is still there—just opened it to confirm it.

If you use the analogue output of the Airport Express, or connect it digitally to a DAC that does not reclock the audio, you won't have these issues with the music stopping. But the jitter is there all the same, and you can hear it as it affects the detail and the imaging.

Interesting.

My totally informal, subjective comparisons suggest that Airfoil is inferior sound wise. I have not used it for nearly a year but that was what I found back then.

My Airlay setup was noticeably better I thought, though I have seen the issues of some dacs failing to lock to the AEX. I have had no problems with my setup, though I have only tried a handful of dacs and nothing as sophisticated as those you mention.

I have an early dual band, plug in model, ie, First generation, second version released, and it has been faultless on both digital and analogue outputs in my setups.

Interestingly I was looking at the Peachtree website the other day and they reported that the Apple TV is much better at Airplay than the Airport Express. They confirmed the above findings that their Peachtree DACs were unable to re-clock the AEX because it was just too jittery. They recommended the Apple TV as a source instead, not just for the added video features, but for the quality too.

 

[unsleepable]

Interestingly I was looking at the Peachtree website the other day and they reported that the Apple TV is much better at Airplay than the Airport Express. They confirmed the above findings that their Peachtree DACs were unable to re-clock the AEX because it was just too jittery. They recommended the Apple TV as a source instead, not just for the added video features, but for the quality too.

I have never experienced issues with re-clocking the Airport Express signal. It was only when Airfoil was in the middle that it couldn't be done.

 

[davedotco]

Interestingly I was looking at the Peachtree website the other day and they reported that the Apple TV is much better at Airplay than the Airport Express. They confirmed the above findings that their Peachtree DACs were unable to re-clock the AEX because it was just too jittery. They recommended the Apple TV as a source instead, not just for the added video features, but for the quality too.

I have never experienced issues with re-clocking the Airport Express signal. It was only when Airfoil was in the middle that it couldn't be done.

There appears to be some difference between the various AEX models, the earlier, plug in versions seemingly better than the latest models. There are reports of the modern AEX being unable to lock on to dacs such as the R-Dac, M-Dac, others too.

In the real world the performance of Airplay is far from cut and dried, hence my interest in Spotify Connect.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Phew got there! By the way the BETA version is exactly the same and works perfectly as the normal version with the addition of the Connect speaker button at the bottom right to control which device you want to play.