Spendor Creek match

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I need some help please. I have Creek Destiny amp and CD players (original, not 2nd generation), Kimber cables and Spendor A5 speakers but the system is heavy and lacks both life and rythm. Not all is bad, detail is great. I suspect the problem is with the speakers, cause if I use my headphones (Rega Ear and Grado GS1000s things really come to life and sparkle. Does my amp have enough welly for these speakers (its 100w into 8ohms)? Do I need to add another amp? Thanks to anyone who can help. Milesahead
 

CnoEvil

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When you originally heard the A5s, what amp was driving them? ie. What made you buy them originally.....they are very good speakers, but they need to be taken by the scruff of the neck (and their sound isn't for everyone).
 
milesahead said:
I need some help please. I have Creek Destiny amp and CD players (original, not 2nd generation), Kimber cables and Spendor A5 speakers but the system is heavy and lacks both life and rythm. Not all is bad, detail is great. I suspect the problem is with the speakers, cause if I use my headphones (Rega Ear and Grado GS1000s things really come to life and sparkle. Does my amp have enough welly for these speakers (its 100w into 8ohms)? Do I need to add another amp? Thanks to anyone who can help. Milesahead

Spendor and Creek are a no-no IMHO.

Creek is best matched with Epos and older MAs (silver range)
 
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Anonymous

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I think thats where I made the mistake - the dealer had an amp/pre-amp set-up (ARCAM). At the time this did not raise the alarm bells it should had could I'd had a very constructive e-mail exchange with Spendor and they were confident that the Creek was adequate. Plus given the Creeks have a bit more life than the ARCAM I thought this would compensate.

Don't get me wrong, in many way they are good speaqkers (the best radio 4 sound I could imagine) but radio commentary is not what I bought the hifi for.
 
milesahead said:
I think thats where I made the mistake - the dealer had an amp/pre-amp set-up (ARCAM). At the time this did not raise the alarm bells it should had could I'd had a very constructive e-mail exchange with Spendor and they were confident that the Creek was adequate. Plus given the Creeks have a bit more life than the ARCAM I thought this would compensate. Don't get me wrong, in many way they are good speaqkers (the best radio 4 sound I could imagine) but radio commentary is not what I bought the hifi for.

Arcam like Creek are very smooth, hence why Spendor go so well with brands like Cyrus, Leema etc. etc. This is also why they sounded so good with talk radio. But that smoothness can give way to a syrupy presentation: Absolutely fine to double up on dynamics, detail... when it comes tonal matching with a smooth amp, generally speaking, needs a very sparky or lively [or bright] speaker.
 

CnoEvil

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If you have heard the A5s sounding right, then you need to listen to a variety of amps till you get the right match.

I would throw Sugden into the ring for a start as well as Musical Fidelity. You should also consider the combination that you originally heard in the dealer.
 

mikegtar

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I have some Spendor S5e and Epos M22i speakers bi-amped with my Destiny integrated (High freq) and power (low freq) amps. Room 16 by 12 feet, laminate flooring on concrete base. Chord Odyssey speaker cables and Chord Signature interconnects.

The Spendors are great for speech and my older recordings (30's/40's big band, Maria Callas etc...) which need a bit of a 'veil' to hide some of the recording quality issues. They have a lovely warm and friendly sound and I tend to listen with them positioned closer into the room which gives a more near field sound. They're finished in light oak and I wouldn't part with them for anything.

The Epos M22i's are much more revealing and give a fantastic 3d sound stage effect and much more 'open' in the high frequencies. The bigger cabinet volume and bigger woofers also mean more bass can be heard/felt in music and movies. These are the speakers I listen to when I want a high quality and detailed sound from my music. They're finished in red cherry (and Epos red is REALLY red!), absolutely gorgeous and again I wouldn't part with them.

Two completely different speakers which are solid and well made and are great to own for different reasons. I did hear the Spendors about 6 years ago on the end of a Cyrus 8 amp and cd player and I think they made a great pairing, but that was in a hifi shop in a different environment at higher volume level than I generally listen to at home.

I would agree that the Spendors lack some life compared to the Epos but they still have great rhythm. Speaker positioning and experimenting with cables may help. As far as changing the Destiny amps is concerned, I would say no. You may change the presentation of the Spendors a bit with different amps, but you won't be able to change their character completely. The Destiny amps have plenty of grip and welly in my opinion.
 

CnoEvil

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mikegtar said:
I have some Spendor S5e and Epos M22i speakers bi-amped with my Destiny integrated (High freq) and power (low freq) amps. Room 16 by 12 feet, laminate flooring on concrete base. Chord Odyssey speaker cables and Chord Signature interconnects.

The Spendors are great for speech and my older recordings (30's/40's big band, Maria Callas etc...) which need a bit of a 'veil' to hide some of the recording quality issues. They have a lovely warm and friendly sound and I tend to listen with them positioned closer into the room which gives a more near field sound. They're finished in light oak and I wouldn't part with them for anything.

The Epos M22i's are much more revealing and give a fantastic 3d sound stage effect and much more 'open' in the high frequencies. The bigger cabinet volume and bigger woofers also mean more bass can be heard/felt in music and movies. These are the speakers I listen to when I want a high quality and detailed sound from my music. They're finished in red cherry (and Epos red is REALLY red!), absolutely gorgeous and again I wouldn't part with them.

Two completely different speakers which are solid and well made and are great to own for different reasons. I did hear the Spendors about 6 years ago on the end of a Cyrus 8 amp and cd player and I think they made a great pairing, but that was in a hifi shop in a different environment at higher volume level than I generally listen to at home.

I would agree that the Spendors lack some life compared to the Epos but they still have great rhythm. Speaker positioning and experimenting with cables may help. As far as changing the Destiny amps is concerned, I would say no. You may change the presentation of the Spendors a bit with different amps, but you won't be able to change their character completely. The Destiny amps have plenty of grip and welly in my opinion.

Wise words from an owner.... though it should be noted, that the voicing of the current Spendor "A series" is different to their "S series"; slightly less "pipe and slippers", if you like.
 
milesahead said:
I need some help please. I have Creek Destiny amp and CD players (original, not 2nd generation), Kimber cables and Spendor A5 speakers but the system is heavy and lacks both life and rythm. Not all is bad, detail is great. I suspect the problem is with the speakers, cause if I use my headphones (Rega Ear and Grado GS1000s things really come to life and sparkle. Does my amp have enough welly for these speakers (its 100w into 8ohms)? Do I need to add another amp? Thanks to anyone who can help. Milesahead

Hi milesahead

I think you need to start with looking at alternative amplifiaction. Densen's Beat B-110 Plus, Beat B-130 Plus or Naim's Nait XS are worth a look. These amplifiers will grip and energize the A5's more effectively and also add what i feel is some much needed zest, verve and focus to open up the A5's.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 
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Anonymous

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Some very helpful comments - thx for taking the time to help.

Can't bring myself to get rid of the Creeks thoughas they work well with my headphone set-up.

Also reluctant to sell the Spendors - a lot of hassle and they are good (just not a good fit). What about adding a power amp - ups the power and the right choice may give me the liveliness I am looking for. Is this a silly idea?
 
milesahead said:
Some very helpful comments - thx for taking the time to help.

Can't bring myself to get rid of the Creeks thoughas they work well with my headphone set-up.

Also reluctant to sell the Spendors - a lot of hassle and they are good (just not a good fit). What about adding a power amp - ups the power and the right choice may give me the liveliness I am looking for. Is this a silly idea?

Hi milesahead

Fair enough. Adding a power amp and using the Destiny as a pre amp is a perfectly good alternative :) Although i hate to state the obvious as the Destiny's tonal presentation will still play a part.

Anyway what would your budget be?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 
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Anonymous

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Not sure of how much I'd be willing to spend - depends on the difference it would make.

I suppose about £1k.

But would this mean a 3 amp route for my headphone amp?
 
milesahead said:
Not sure of how much I'd be willing to spend - depends on the difference it would make.

I suppose about £1k.

But would this mean a 3 amp route for my headphone amp?

You really need to get out and listen to few different combos. We can all throw different brands around until we're blue in the face but it really needs your ears.

Good luck, pp
 

CnoEvil

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milesahead said:
Not sure of how much I'd be willing to spend - depends on the difference it would make.

I suppose about £1k.

But would this mean a 3 amp route for my headphone amp?

Could you stretch to something like the ATC P1.....if not, you may be looking 2nd hand to get a decent upgrade.
 
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Anonymous

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By 3 amp route - I just meant that for headphone listening the signal would have come from CD to pre-amp, to power amp, to headphone amp.

Had a bit of a play with the system today - tried the active pre-amp and this doea help a bit.

Listened to some jazz and it sounded OK. Much of my listening is small scale jazz or chamber and perhaps my recent concerns was the result of listening to music requiring full orchestra. Maybe I am a bit unrealistic in expecting such a large and complex sound to be as good as I want from two small speakers, especially when high volume listening isn't viable in a family environment. Also, perhaps this is where the Grado headphones do particularly well and my aspirations are hightened unrealistically.

Any thoughts?
 

CnoEvil

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milesahead said:
By 3 amp route - I just meant that for headphone listening the signal would have come from CD to pre-amp, to power amp, to headphone amp.

Had a bit of a play with the system today - tried the active pre-amp and this doea help a bit.

Listened to some jazz and it sounded OK. Much of my listening is small scale jazz or chamber and perhaps my recent concerns was the result of listening to music requiring full orchestra. Maybe I am a bit unrealistic in expecting such a large and complex sound to be as good as I want from two small speakers, especially when high volume listening isn't viable in a family environment. Also, perhaps this is where the Grado headphones do particularly well and my aspirations are hightened unrealistically.

Any thoughts?

I think you may have just answered your own question.
 

westerniser

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Hello - I also bought the A5 speakers and tried so many amps, so hopefully this will be useful.

- Audiolab 8200a - Added some much needed sparkle, the pre/power combo sounded a little better, but not hugely better.

- Cyrus 8xpd - sounded good, but the in built dac just took the excitement away I thought. It kind of lost some brightness.

- NVA AP70 - Better and more open than the above, really nice product.

- Roksan Kandy - Similar to the Audiolab, but couldn't handle the chrome effect on the fascia!

- Yamaha AS-2000. Too warm, super bass, and such a monster to own!

So, I nearly plumped with the NVA AP70 after a home demo, however I discovered the following:

Naim Supernait! I picked one up second hand in perfect condition after a store demo. It's much better than the rest, although it's much more expensive. It's detailed, brighter, still has the warmth (Which I love about the A5) and has loads of power. It's so simple too, with built in dac, and Spotify / iTunes are sounding great. Highly recommended, and the days when I can push the volume past 20%, it's like I'm at a live gig or club. I now need a new home where I have no neighbours above or below!
 
milesahead said:
By 3 amp route - I just meant that for headphone listening the signal would have come from CD to pre-amp, to power amp, to headphone amp.

Had a bit of a play with the system today - tried the active pre-amp and this doea help a bit.

Listened to some jazz and it sounded OK. Much of my listening is small scale jazz or chamber and perhaps my recent concerns was the result of listening to music requiring full orchestra. Maybe I am a bit unrealistic in expecting such a large and complex sound to be as good as I want from two small speakers, especially when high volume listening isn't viable in a family environment. Also, perhaps this is where the Grado headphones do particularly well and my aspirations are hightened unrealistically.

Any thoughts?

Hi milesahead

Thanks for your reply.

To listen to your headphones through the Rega Ear headphone amplifier the signal from the cd player will go into the amp and from the amplifiers tape outputs to the Ear amplifier.

Fair enough although try the Densen's Beat B-305 Plus and Beat B-310 Plus power amplifers as these may just do the trick for you at comparable levels.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 
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Anonymous

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If I were starting from Scratch I think Densen would be right there at the top of my list, possibly pipped only by Sugden. But couldn't justify such an expenditure to mjy other half - will just have to live with the existing compromise.

Cest la vie
 

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