speakers for an A class amp

[CnoEvil]

]

Thanks for the advice Cno, I think I will audition "only" these two models (MF and ARC) this time, since he does not have any Audio Note (I thought so). He also have all nice and shining Primare exposed (they look very nice and sexy). I will use my source as well (pc + rDAC) and try to make a good selection of music...you will need to help on this as well if possible :wall:

I have some nice tracks I love (lot of classic guitar) but maybe something which can make me spot the difference between the two (something with great basses for example). I will put some smooth jazz, vocal jazz (like Diana Krall and Barb Jungr) and some classical music (not an expert but I love big orchestra performing "allegro" and "Andante"...I love intense performances which I can feel inside my chest, like a lot Rossini...for example Tancredi which starts very soft and at a certain point grows), plus some high-res tracks...anyway I will open a separate post for this! :type:

Your first place to start is on your "learning to listen" thread here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/learning-to-listen

As to what music to bring....you want to test every aspect of your system eg. Tonal accuracy, conveyance of emotion, ability to deal with different musical genres, handling of dynamic swings, speed of transient attack and soundstaging.

So bring examples of every type of music you listen to (versatility is key). As Simon Cowell would say, you don't want to end up with a "one trick pony". eg Tubes aren't the best bet for Hard Rock or listening to Eminem....hard hitting, clean, powerful bass is not often a strength of tubes, at half sensible money.

You want to test human voice (male and female), piano and violin. Also bring tracks with thunderous bass to assess this aspect. If you have something very detailed and complicated, its worth seeing if this can be portrayed accurately (without ending up as a sonic mess). Listen to simple acoustic pieces as well as large scale orchestral ones.

It is also vital to bring some less well mastered stuff, as you don't want parts of your music collection to be off limits.

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head, and I expect others may be along with excellent advice as well.

Cno

 

[acalex]

]

Thanks for the advice Cno, I think I will audition "only" these two models (MF and ARC) this time, since he does not have any Audio Note (I thought so). He also have all nice and shining Primare exposed (they look very nice and sexy). I will use my source as well (pc + rDAC) and try to make a good selection of music...you will need to help on this as well if possible :wall:

I have some nice tracks I love (lot of classic guitar) but maybe something which can make me spot the difference between the two (something with great basses for example). I will put some smooth jazz, vocal jazz (like Diana Krall and Barb Jungr) and some classical music (not an expert but I love big orchestra performing "allegro" and "Andante"...I love intense performances which I can feel inside my chest, like a lot Rossini...for example Tancredi which starts very soft and at a certain point grows), plus some high-res tracks...anyway I will open a separate post for this! :type:

Your first place to start is on your "learning to listen" thread here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/learning-to-listen As to what music to bring....you want to test every aspect of your system eg. Tonal accuracy, conveyance of emotion, ability to deal with different musical genres, handling of dynamic swings, speed of transient attack and soundstaging. So bring examples of every type of music you listen to (versatility is key). As Simon Cowell would say, you don't want to end up with a "one trick pony". eg Tubes aren't the best bet for Hard Rock or listening to Eminem....hard hitting, clean, powerful bass is not often a strength of tubes, at half sensible money. You want to test human voice (male and female), piano and violin. Also bring tracks with thunderous bass to assess this aspect. If you have something very detailed and complicated, its worth seeing if this can be portrayed accurately (without ending up as a sonic mess). Listen to simple acoustic pieces as well as large scale orchestral ones. It is also vital to bring some less well mastered stuff, as you don't want parts of your music collection to be off limits. These are just a few ideas off the top of my head, and I expect others may be along with excellent advice as well. Cno

I am indeed re-reading it!

All great stuff, thanks a lot for all your advices...I need now to start making a nice and accurate list! Some great suggestions were already in the thread...

 

[CnoEvil]

I would also add a Lavardin amp to the mix too if you can trace any dealer carrying this brand near you. model IT or at least model IS Reference, that's what you should listen to your music through is realism of live performance is something important to you.

also, if you manage to come across Octave amps dealer give'em a try too. Dynaudio recently is using almost exclusively Octave amps to demo their speakers at hi-fi shows. if they're amp of choice for Dynaudio they can't be poor.

I'm curious how you'd rate a Primare amp having listened to AMS 35i and ARC VSi60. I'm gonna eat my hat (if I had one! ) if you found new Primare amps musical compared to ARC and MF class A.

Lavardin is a great choice as well.....by the way, your (fictional) hat is safe. Having got used to Class A, there are very few SS amps that I like. The only Class D I've found musical is from Bel Canto.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hello to everyone,

since I decided to upgrade my ampli, I am thinking about going down the road of a pure class A amp. What I have noticed is that all the ones I am looking at share a theoretically low power output (from 10W from Pathos Inpol to I think 35W of the AMS35i from musical fidelity)...which kind of speakers do you match with those ampli?

I have a pair of Monitor Audio RX6 which are teoretically 90dB and require a 40-125W amplification...does this mean I should look at other speakers if I want an A class amplifier? Or this range is purelly theoretically?

Again...my living room is around 16sqm and heavily furnished (carpet, desk, table, bookshelf, sofa, wooden floor etc...) and I do not listen to loud music (9 o'clock has been my max so far...but still can't keep for long because of the neighbours)

Any thoughts on this?

Thanksssssss

Hi acalex

I'll recommend that you also consider the Plinius Hiato amplifier :twisted: The Hiato's ability to energize the Silver RX6's and the synergy between the Hiato and the Silver RX6's is superb

The rDAC and Silver RX6's are perfectly capable of being partnered with these amplifiers however you'll also have to look at even higher quality source component and speakers (such as Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC, Monitor Audio Platinum Series speakers etc.) to really match the quality of these amplifiers. I'll also recommend that with you use your new amplification for some time to come and so as to gain experience of the new amp/your system before making other changes.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Rick, thanks for your advise, I will certainly look up at this amp as well, thanks for the suggestion.

That's my idea indeed. I "played" a little bit with the Vincent, now I will buy a great amp and learn what I am looking fore before making any other change (source, DAC, cables...etc)

Thanks for the advise, very much appreciated

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Btw, before i completely forget at a similar price the Plinius SA-103 power amplifer (Pure Class A up to 125w) is also worth bearing in mind. Without wishing to contradict myself then look at partnering the SA-103 with Audiolab's M-DAC or 8200CDQ as both models have good pre amps and both models as DAC's will also improve on the performance of thr rDAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hello to everyone,

since I decided to upgrade my ampli, I am thinking about going down the road of a pure class A amp. What I have noticed is that all the ones I am looking at share a theoretically low power output (from 10W from Pathos Inpol to I think 35W of the AMS35i from musical fidelity)...which kind of speakers do you match with those ampli?

I have a pair of Monitor Audio RX6 which are teoretically 90dB and require a 40-125W amplification...does this mean I should look at other speakers if I want an A class amplifier? Or this range is purelly theoretically?

Again...my living room is around 16sqm and heavily furnished (carpet, desk, table, bookshelf, sofa, wooden floor etc...) and I do not listen to loud music (9 o'clock has been my max so far...but still can't keep for long because of the neighbours)

Any thoughts on this?

Thanksssssss

Hi acalex

I'll recommend that you also consider the Plinius Hiato amplifier :twisted: The Hiato's ability to energize the Silver RX6's and the synergy between the Hiato and the Silver RX6's is superb

The rDAC and Silver RX6's are perfectly capable of being partnered with these amplifiers however you'll also have to look at even higher quality source component and speakers (such as Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC, Monitor Audio Platinum Series speakers etc.) to really match the quality of these amplifiers. I'll also recommend that with you use your new amplification for some time to come and so as to gain experience of the new amp/your system before making other changes.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Rick, thanks for your advise, I will certainly look up at this amp as well, thanks for the suggestion.

That's my idea indeed. I "played" a little bit with the Vincent, now I will buy a great amp and learn what I am looking fore before making any other change (source, DAC, cables...etc)

Thanks for the advise, very much appreciated

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Btw, before i completely forget at a similar price the Plinius SA-103 power amplifer (Pure Class A up to 125w) is also worth bearing in mind. Without wishing to contradict myself then look at partnering the SA-103 with Audiolab's M-DAC or 8200CDQ as both models have good pre amps and both models as DAC's will also improve on the performance of thr rDAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hello to everyone,

since I decided to upgrade my ampli, I am thinking about going down the road of a pure class A amp. What I have noticed is that all the ones I am looking at share a theoretically low power output (from 10W from Pathos Inpol to I think 35W of the AMS35i from musical fidelity)...which kind of speakers do you match with those ampli?

I have a pair of Monitor Audio RX6 which are teoretically 90dB and require a 40-125W amplification...does this mean I should look at other speakers if I want an A class amplifier? Or this range is purelly theoretically?

Again...my living room is around 16sqm and heavily furnished (carpet, desk, table, bookshelf, sofa, wooden floor etc...) and I do not listen to loud music (9 o'clock has been my max so far...but still can't keep for long because of the neighbours)

Any thoughts on this?

Thanksssssss

Hi acalex

I'll recommend that you also consider the Plinius Hiato amplifier :twisted: The Hiato's ability to energize the Silver RX6's and the synergy between the Hiato and the Silver RX6's is superb

The rDAC and Silver RX6's are perfectly capable of being partnered with these amplifiers however you'll also have to look at even higher quality source component and speakers (such as Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC, Monitor Audio Platinum Series speakers etc.) to really match the quality of these amplifiers. I'll also recommend that with you use your new amplification for some time to come and so as to gain experience of the new amp/your system before making other changes.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Rick, thanks for your advise, I will certainly look up at this amp as well, thanks for the suggestion.

That's my idea indeed. I "played" a little bit with the Vincent, now I will buy a great amp and learn what I am looking fore before making any other change (source, DAC, cables...etc)

Thanks for the advise, very much appreciated

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Btw, before i completely forget at a similar price the Plinius SA-103 power amplifer (Pure Class A up to 125w) is also worth bearing in mind. Without wishing to contradict myself then look at partnering the SA-103 with Audiolab's M-DAC or 8200CDQ as both models have good pre amps and both models as DAC's will also improve on the performance of thr rDAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Btw, before i completely forget at a similar price the Plinius SA-103 power amplifer (Pure Class A up to 125w) is also worth bearing in mind. Without wishing to contradict myself then look at partnering the SA-103 with Audiolab's M-DAC or 8200CDQ as both models have good pre amps and both models as DAC's will also improve on the performance of thr rDAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[acalex]

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Btw, before i completely forget at a similar price the Plinius SA-103 power amplifer (Pure Class A up to 125w) is also worth bearing in mind. Without wishing to contradict myself then look at partnering the SA-103 with Audiolab's M-DAC or 8200CDQ as both models have good pre amps and both models as DAC's will also improve on the performance of thr rDAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick, thanks for the suggestion and adding one more product on my list. Unfortunately the Audiolab M-DAC is not easy to find here in Belgium, would you think it's better than the M2Tech Young in terms of sound? Because the Young goes up to 32/384 through USB....the MDAC "only" 24/96. Do you have any direct experience or did any comparison?

Thanks

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Btw, before i completely forget at a similar price the Plinius SA-103 power amplifer (Pure Class A up to 125w) is also worth bearing in mind. Without wishing to contradict myself then look at partnering the SA-103 with Audiolab's M-DAC or 8200CDQ as both models have good pre amps and both models as DAC's will also improve on the performance of thr rDAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick, thanks for the suggestion and adding one more product on my list. Unfortunately the Audiolab M-DAC is not easy to find here in Belgium, would you think it's better than the M2Tech Young in terms of sound? Because the Young goes up to 32/384 through USB....the MDAC "only" 24/96. Do you have any direct experience or did any comparison?

Thanks

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Best thing to do is to wait until the M-DAC becomes more widely available and then compare a M2Tech Young DAC to an M-DAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[acalex]

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Btw, before i completely forget at a similar price the Plinius SA-103 power amplifer (Pure Class A up to 125w) is also worth bearing in mind. Without wishing to contradict myself then look at partnering the SA-103 with Audiolab's M-DAC or 8200CDQ as both models have good pre amps and both models as DAC's will also improve on the performance of thr rDAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick, thanks for the suggestion and adding one more product on my list. Unfortunately the Audiolab M-DAC is not easy to find here in Belgium, would you think it's better than the M2Tech Young in terms of sound? Because the Young goes up to 32/384 through USB....the MDAC "only" 24/96. Do you have any direct experience or did any comparison?

Thanks

Hi acalex

Your welcome.

Best thing to do is to wait until the M-DAC becomes more widely available and then compare a M2Tech Young DAC to an M-DAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I will do, thanks a lot Rick. If you do your testing on M-DAC please keep us informed!

 

[acalex]

I was actually thinking...instead of an integrated amp wouldn't make more sense to buy separate pre + power amp? Or the budget required would go up drastically? I am thinking in terms of flexibility and opportunity to upgrade in the futures...what do you think?

Thanks!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi acalex

What is your maximum budget for an amplifier please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[acalex]

Hi acalex

What is your maximum budget for an amplifier please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick, I would say not more than cost of an AMS35i...I haven't set-up a proper budget to be honest, but roughly wouldn't like to spend more than 8k all included.

Thanks

 

[CnoEvil]

I was actually thinking...instead of an integrated amp wouldn't make more sense to buy separate pre + power amp? Or the budget required would go up drastically? I am thinking in terms of flexibility and opportunity to upgrade in the futures...what do you think?

Thanks!

I would only think about pre + power if you feel something is lacking in the MF or Pathos.

My other suggestion re your demo, is that while your there, listen to where you want to be in the future ie Decent source and better speakers (SF). You will then (a) Hear just how good the amps really are, and (b) Know which (future) components will sound well with the amp that you choose (taking on the advice from WishTree).

 

[acalex]

I was actually thinking...instead of an integrated amp wouldn't make more sense to buy separate pre + power amp? Or the budget required would go up drastically? I am thinking in terms of flexibility and opportunity to upgrade in the futures...what do you think?

Thanks!

I would only think about pre + power if you feel something is lacking in the MF or Pathos. My other suggestion re your demo, is that while your there, listen to where you want to be in the future ie Decent source and better speakers (SF). You will then (a) Hear just how good the amps really are, and (b) Know which (future) components will sound well with the amp that you choose (taking on the advice from WishTree).

Great answer, thanks a lot!

Regarding your other suggestion, would ytou advise to do everything at once? Like in the same demo session? I am afraid I will be a bit overwhelmed...no? In the end I am not an expert and this would be my first "real" audition!

For sure source (not CDP but streamer...the dealer has Meridian and he says it's great) and better speaker will be my future upgrades...

 

[CnoEvil]

First, I would ring the dealer and tell him what you're planning, and settle on the source and speakers you want to listen to. This is so he can have them ready.

For the demo, make sure you listen to your kit first, as doing it the other way round, may only serve to lessen the impact (by showing up your gear).

Once you have chosen the amp you prefer, then connect it to the better source and speakers....and enjoy.

Then you will either decide your speakers are giving you most of what you want, or you will be counting down the days... :bounce:

Also listen to the difference a really good source makes....it is often more than people realise.

 

[acalex]

First, I would ring the dealer and tell him what you're planning, and settle on the source and speakers you want to listen to. This is so he can have them ready. For the demo, make sure you listen to your kit first, as doing it the other way round, may only serve to lessen the impact (by showing up your gear). Once you have chosen the amp you prefer, then connect it to the better source and speakers....and enjoy. Then you will either decide your speakers are giving you most of what you want, or you will be counting down the days... :bounce: Also listen to the difference a really good source makes....it is often more than people realise.

Ok so I was thinking to do like this...taking my notebook with my music, my rDAC and my gear and plug it. Than playing my songs through my system. Then change amp ONLY and play the same tracks through the new amp.

Then replaying the all tracks using the Young DAC insted of the rDAC to understand if I get any improvement over the rDAC with the new amp.

Then last step is playing using an ideal source (not sure about this yet) and the new amp connected to the SF speakers...correct?

Or shall I switch amp every song? Like playing the same on old and new amp? Like this there would be a lot of unplug/replug...

 

[CnoEvil]

Or shall I switch amp every song? Like playing the same on old and new amp? Like this there would be a lot of unplug/replug...

The shop won't thank you for that. Have a good listen, and then swop....just make sure the unused amp remains switched on.

Other than that, your plan looks good. I suspect the dealer will be only too happy to "hook" you up to better kit.....you are in for a very interesting day.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi acalex

What is your maximum budget for an amplifier please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick, I would say not more than cost of an AMS35i...I haven't set-up a proper budget to be honest, but roughly wouldn't like to spend more than 8k all included.

Thanks

Hi acalex

Thanks for your reply.

A pre/power should be better however this is not always the case as integrated amplifers such as the Plinius Hiato, Musical Fidelity AMS35i show.

Anyway audition the Hiato and if the M-DAC is not available yet then use the 8200CDQ with the SA-103 as this will give you a a fair idea of the M-DAC.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft