Speaker stands. Sand, slabs, spikes, atabites, snake oil, some questions....

[Longchops]

Afternoon, seems I am now the proud owner of a pair of atacama speaker stands, thanks to some advice from this forum.....

Apparently Atacama advise that the centre tube is filled with some 'atabites' and I've long known about the properties of using sand in stands. Is there any real difference? I trust the atabites will be a bit more pricy but I like to follow the manufacturers advice where possible.....what about something like expanding foam even?

And just fill the one tube as well? Not the other 2 smaller ones as well? I'm guessing this is to stop low frequency loss though resonance/booming through the hollow tube but seems odd just to do 1/3. The other 2 don't look easy to fill tbh.

I'm currently using 2 paving slabs with a set of carpet spikes as the left stand wasn't sitting flush on the slab. Is this a proper thing to do? The name makes me think they are intended more for carpet usage than stone.....

Think I'm going to have to replace the two slabs with 2 smaller things as they are slightly too big to fit around my furniture now. Would stone like granite be better than concrete slab or is this descending into the realm of snake oil? Heard someone on here mention granite chopping boards from argos or something, those sound perfect

Obviously I can't A/B anything as I only have 1 set of stands and speakers and not looking to spend a fortune going on an acoustic safari so just wondering if anyone has done any research into any of these things?

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 116933]

When im looking to fill a stand I'm looking for mass and deadening, That can be achieved a number of ways, just pick your poison

Concrete slabs really only make sense on floating wood floors, such as some victorian houses or townhouses where the living room is upstairs. If you have a solid floor I don't see/hear the benefit of slabs no vibrations are going to get through.


If it where me and have nexus stands (which I've had in the past) Get yourself some kiln sand or chinchilla bath sand, superfine and dry.

 

[Al ears]

Are they on a suspended wooden floor? Carpeted? Solid floor?
If they have to sit on stone blocks I would lose the spikes and use a few balls of blutack.

 

[12th Monkey]

If you have a solid floor I don't see/hear the benefit of slabs no vibrations are going to get through.

My experience is that this isn't true - damping vibration out of the electronics has been of massive benefit to me. But how important it is with standmounts - I have no idea.

 

[Al ears]

My experience is that this isn't true - damping vibration out of the electronics has been of massive benefit to me. But how important it is with standmounts - I have no idea.

true, damping rather than connecting is the way to go. Slabs underneath speakers is useless unless it's a downward firing subwoofer

 

[Longchops]

The slabs are in the way anyway tbh. I think its a solid floor under the carpet. Its a ground floor room.

The carpet is slightly crap though tbh, the spikes will probably damage it

 

[nopiano]

The slabs are in the way anyway tbh. I think its a solid floor under the carpet. Its a ground floor room.

The carpet is slightly crap though tbh, the spikes will probably damage it

Spikes are intended to pass straight through the typical carpet weave. The contrast is with wheels or skids like you get on furniture, and they leave depressions in the pile. Your slabs will also have done that, I expect.

The filling material, the quantity, and the results are all debatable. Years ago, Cliff Stone designed the Foundation stands. I still have a pair. I believe they contained a mix of lead shot, sand and similar, though I’m not sure it was revealed. He wrote how he experimented for months to get it right. I found an old thread here...
https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/what-speaker-stands-for-spendor-sa1.66351/#post-670086
He is CJSF on this very forum.

 

[Longchops]

The filling material, the quantity, and the results are all debatable. Years ago, Cliff Stone designed a Foundation stands. I still have a pair. I believe they contained a mix of lead shot, sand and similar, though I’m not sure it was revealed. He wrote how he experimented for months to get it right. I found an old thread here...
https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/what-speaker-stands-for-spendor-sa1.66351/#post-670086
He is CJSF on this very forum.

That was a really great thread and very interesting.

I went back to my stands after reading that, and noticed the centre poles of each stands are noticeably very reverby/echoey, and also have different resonant frequencies. One is about 3 notes higher than the other, despite both stands being 'identical'

I wonder if that was what Cliff was hinting at. Maybe he 'tuned' the stands so the frequencies matched as well as insulating/deadening them to create a perfect matching pair? It can't be good for the sound having what is basically an echo chamber underneath the speaker, especially at different pitches....

 

[nopiano]

That was a really great thread and very interesting.

I went back to my stands after reading that, and noticed the centre poles of each stands are noticeably very reverby/echoey, and also have different resonant frequencies. One is about 3 notes higher than the other, despite both stands being 'identical'

I wonder if that was what Cliff was hinting at. Maybe he 'tuned' the stands so the frequencies matched as well as insulating/deadening them to create a perfect matching pair? It can't be good for the sound having what is basically an echo chamber underneath the speaker, especially at different pitches....

Yes, if we imagine that the “perfect” stand magically holds the speaker without adding or detracting anything, then metal columns achieve the height and rigidity, but not much else! Definitely they need not to ring or clang, and that’s usually achieve with a partial filling of inert material.

Hours of fun, or buy a filled pair, I suppose! Incidentally, I have used 24” Target brand stands happily with little Mission bookshelf speakers, because there was limited bass and any ringing wasn’t intrusive.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

My experience is that this isn't true - damping vibration out of the electronics has been of massive benefit to me. But how important it is with standmounts - I have no idea.

as I said depends on the floor

 

[Al ears]

as I said depends on the floor

It does indeed and I would recommend solid wooden stands over metal ones that you then have to spend extra to fill.

 

[Longchops]

My neighbour has long complained about noise. I never play music loud at all, the walls are just particularly thin unfortunately. I can barely even hear it in the adjacent room. Its the opposite side of the room to where the speakers are placed. While we are on the subject is there anything I can do to reduce this? Would any of what we are talking about ie slabs/sand etc help with reducing bass rumbling? Was thinking about perhaps some acoustic foam on the wall behind or some bass traps? Its a real annoyance tbh.

 

[Gray]

My neighbour has long complained about noise.....

....oh no 😖
That's a (very depressing) subject all of its own.
There was a thread on another forum started by someone with a complaining neighbour.....thing is, he was in a detached house!
It all comes down to perceptions and definitions of what constitutes ' loud'.
Sadly, one person's reasonable, is another's ridiculous.

 

[12th Monkey]

I do feel for you - different songs and pieces have a natural 'right' volume for serious listening, and it's often not quiet!

 

[Al ears]

Sometimes, unfortunately, headphones are your friend.

 

[Longchops]

....oh no 😖
That's a (very depressing) subject all of its own.
There was a thread on another forum started by someone with a complaining neighbour.....thing is, he was in a detached house!
It all comes down to perceptions and definitions of what constitutes ' loud'.
Sadly, one person's reasonable, is another's ridiculous.

I've got a sound meter and its not loud. The guy is a 100% confirmed prat. the previous tenant even warned me about him he said he couldn't even watch TV without him complaining! It was location, location, location at the end of the day though

He was banging on the walls the day I moved in, I actually banged back. he complained to my landlord (who told him to stop banging on the walls and just speak to me like a normal person) which I thought was brilliant, but he has yet to do

Bit more wall banging a couple months back but so far thats the only interaction we have had as neighbours, haha

Tbf the dividing wall between us is exceptionally wafer thin. Its a house but its worse than a new build flat. I can actually hear him tapping his iPhone and sending a text sometimes when I am laying in bed. And I hear their dog's squeaky toy very clearly too so assuming his claims have some merit there must be something I can do

maybe carpeting the wall or even building another small wall or something, literally what do I need to do to sort this out so I can live in peace (noise)

 

[Gray]

....I can actually hear him tapping his iPhone and sending a text sometimes when I am laying in bed. And I hear their dog's squeaky toy very clearly too

Based on that (and what you said about a TV disturbing him) I would say that, sadly, nothing you could do would be enough to satisfy both of you.

You could reduce some of what he hears, but bass frequencies, in particular, will always be his enemy - there's every chance that they sound as prominent to him as they do to you (even if you don't use a subwoofer).