Soundstage greatly improved on WiiM system by turning off EQ

[Hondoe1950]

I love my stereo system, which includes a Cambridge audio edge A amplifier, a WiiM ultra streamer, a Qutest DAC, a REL Classic 98 sub, two Revel M126Be speakers, and very good cables, but was noticing that the sound stage wasn’t what I thought it should be.
After reading the Wiim manual, which instructed that to get bit perfect output one should turn off EQ, I turned off the EQ function and the sound stage opened up so much I could not believe it. I had no idea that the EQ on the streamer was basically almost nullifying the sound stage. If you’re using the. WiiM streamer, I highly recommend turning off the EQ. You won’t believe the difference.

 

[Gray]

Thanks for the advice
But at no time did I ever even consider turning on the EQ when trying the Ultra that I bought.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I find this a bit doubtful unless you were actually using the EQ and had adjusted the EQ in such a way that you had altered the frequencies which have the biggest effect on soundstage significantly.

 

[skinnypuppy71]

I don't understand why you'd eq a streamer to pass it on to a fabulous dac....it's kind of a waste of a good dac.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I don't understand why you'd eq a streamer to pass it on to a fabulous dac....it's kind of a waste of a good dac.

You need to get up to date on EQ. It's a big thing these days and for good reason (all DACs measure flat and have done for decades btw, except maybe up near 20kHz due to different filters where there's little music information anyway).

 

[manicm]

You need to get up to date on EQ. It's a big thing these days and for good reason (all DACs measure flat and have done for decades btw, except maybe up near 20kHz due to different filters where there's little music information anyway).

EQ sometimes may superficially improve clarity, bass etc, but what the op has described is largely symptomatic of tradeoffs. EQ is just the equivalent of tone controls. It is not a perfect solution and may not be a panacea.

 

[RoA]

Indeed but to have room correction, even if it is basic, is commendable for such a low priced unit, especially in the lower Pro models. There is always a trade off but for some it can be invaluable, especially if you have a really problematic room.

 

[Uncle Rusty]

This is standard/best practice, especially if you are using a dedicated DAC and not using the internal DAC on the WiiM Streamer. I use the WiiM purely to provide an output for Tidal and other streaming services, while my RME DAC handles the actually digital to analog conversion.

You should always be doing any EQ adjustments on the actual DAC, so in my case that's on the RME, and in your case that would be on the Qutest DAC. While the WiiM EQ function is very convenient since it's easy to adjust in the app, providing an unmodified and pure digital signal to your DAC should give you the best results.

Likewise, I would also highly recommend disabling/not using volume adjustment on the WiiM, as that again is best handled by either your DAC, or a dedicated pre-amp if you're using one.

Now if you're using the WiiM as your actual DAC, that's a totally different story, and will put you at the limits of what that hardware is capable of, so of course you're fine to use those features to fine tune your audio. But it simply doesn't make since to introduce another layer of signal processing from a $150 to $200 device, when you have dedicated hardware such as a $1000+ DAC that's going to do a much better job of handling these sorts of tasks.

 

[manicm]

Indeed but to have room correction, even if it is basic, is commendable for such a low priced unit, especially in the lower Pro models. There is always a trade off but for some it can be invaluable, especially if you have a really problematic room.

Relying on room corrections on $300 device is folly, unless an established technology like Dirac is used.

Watch and weep, the Scientific Audiophile, another established YouTuber bought a new Eversolo DMP A10, largely on account on its built-in room correction utility (Dirac not available). This is $4000 of his own hard earned cash, only to learn the hard way. Admittedly his adjustments were extreme, or unguided, but still.

View: https://youtu.be/dkqel1p4gaI?si=H91lqs-31DxAECGJ

 

[nopiano]

This is standard/best practice, especially if you are using a dedicated DAC and not using the internal DAC on the WiiM Streamer. I use the WiiM purely to provide an output for Tidal and other streaming services, while my RME DAC handles the actually digital to analog conversion.

You should always be doing any EQ adjustments on the actual DAC, so in my case that's on the RME, and in your case that would be on the Qutest DAC. While the WiiM EQ function is very convenient since it's easy to adjust in the app, providing an unmodified and pure digital signal to your DAC should give you the best results.

Likewise, I would also highly recommend disabling/not using volume adjustment on the WiiM, as that again is best handled by either your DAC, or a dedicated pre-amp if you're using one.

Now if you're using the WiiM as your actual DAC, that's a totally different story, and will put you at the limits of what that hardware is capable of, so of course you're fine to use those features to fine tune your audio. But it simply doesn't make since to introduce another layer of signal processing from a $150 to $200 device, when you have dedicated hardware such as a $1000+ DAC that's going to do a much better job of handling these sorts of tasks.

Can you send an EQ’d output from any Wiim to an external DAC? I thought EQ only applied when using it with its inbuilt DAC?

 

[ToppingSMSL]

EQ sometimes may superficially improve clarity, bass etc, but what the op has described is largely symptomatic of tradeoffs. EQ is just the equivalent of tone controls. It is not a perfect solution and may not be a panacea.

No, EQ when used correctly can correct frequency response issues with headphones or loudspeakers. That's what it is most useful for. There's nothing "superficial" about that.

EQ is also an important tool for mastering engineers. Differences in sound between different masterings of an album are often down to simple EQ differences.

 

[Deliriumbassist]

EQ can introduce phase issues, which may explain the reduction in soundstage experienced.

Room correction (although it's the wrong name for it - Listening Position Compensation is FAR more accurate, because it does NOT correct the room) should only be taken seriously if it involves phase correction, and can be adjusted for each speaker individually - practically ZERO rooms in real life are acoustically symmetrical. Both speakers should be treated individually if you're going to do it at all. @manicm is 100% correct - it is not a perfect solution and not a panacea. Unfortunately it has become a buzzword feature that most people don't know how to use. Same with variable phase dials on subwoofers. People will use things because they're there, whether they know how to use it, it's pros and limitations or not. And if people fall into the 'not' camp, then that can lead to reduced performance.

 

[manicm]

No, EQ when used correctly can correct frequency response issues with headphones or loudspeakers. That's what it is most useful for. There's nothing "superficial" about that.

EQ is also an important tool for mastering engineers. Differences in sound between different masterings of an album are often down to simple EQ differences.

You're mistaking EQ which mastering engineers use for that in hifi products which is not the same. Different masterings may use different levels of compression - and I don't mean the kind that is MP3, FLAC etc.

EQ in hifi systems may work well but actually introduce noise and distortion be it in the digtal or analogue domain.