Sony DA2400ES replacement unit = same problem!

roger06

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Sorry if this is getting boring.

Further to my last threads about the centre channel being so quiet it's practically inaudible, I got a replacement from Amazon today, plugged it in and exactly the same! (if anything a little worse).

I just can't understand it and am now getting seriously peed off. It must be one of three things.

1. The STR DA 2400ES is, actually, an utter load of rubbish that doesn't work (I doubt it due to WHF raves...)

2. I've been sent two duds (possible, but let's face it, doubtful...)

3. There's something wrong with the rest of my set up

Option 3 does seem the most likely but all I do is plug in 5 speakers and a sub that have worked perfectly well with the last AV amp for many years, and that's it. It's worse with Blu Ray - on playing a disc after auto cal you just can't hear the dialogue at all unless you put your ear to the speaker - but it's really noticeable how quiet the centre is when you do the test tone which is input independent.

I really really don't know what to do now. I can't ask Amazon to send another, and I now have two expensive black boxes which are no use...

Please help!
 

roger06

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I'm using a Chord Co. HDMI cable. It came with the WHF subscription.

I guess the only way to test it is to plug the BDP into the kitchen TV with it and check audio and video's OK ?

Still - that wouldn't explain the quiet speaker on using the test tone function.
 

jerryyeatman

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Does your centre speaker has 2 lots of inputs for biwiring?

If so, there should be 2 joiners so that you can only use 1 set of inputs when not biwiring... make sure the joiners are properly connecting.
 

ElectroMan

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Do you still have the old amp, to test if the centre speaker still works?

Have you tried using a different speaker in the centre channel, to rule out the speaker having developed a fault? And try the centre speaker on one of the other channels.

If all else fails, I'd suggest a call to Sony.
emotion-1.gif
 

roger06

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jerryyeatman:
Does your centre speaker has 2 lots of inputs for biwiring?

If so, there should be 2 joiners so that you can only use 1 set of inputs when not biwiring... make sure the joiners are properly connecting.

No, it's not bi-wired... doubled checked the connections.
 

roger06

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ElectroMan:
Do you still have the old amp, to test if the centre speaker still works?

Have you tried using a different speaker in the centre channel, to rule out the speaker having developed a fault? And try the centre speaker on one of the other channels.

If all else fails, I'd suggest a call to Sony.
emotion-1.gif


I've got the old amp but it's a pain to set it up with multi channel outs etc.

I've tried two different speakers in the centre and also swapped the left front and centre and what ever is in the centre position it's still the same.
 

roger06

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Petherick:
Have you tried a different HDMI lead?

Yes - same issue.

I don't think it's to do with the connection between the amp and BDP as just using the test tone it's apparent how quiet the centre is.
 

ElectroMan

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Hmmm, sounds like you've been unlucky enough to get two from a faulty batch, or there's a setting somewhere on the amp that needs changing (but strange that it would be the default).
 

roger06

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ElectroMan:
Hmmm, sounds like you've been unlucky enough to get two from a faulty batch, or there's a setting somewhere on the amp that needs changing (but strange that it would be the default).

I'm starting to think that's the case. Amazon will send a courier to pick 'em both up and give me a refund. But other than the centre channel issue it really does sound stonking and I want one! I've always had Yamahas before and am keen to try something else (especially as BDP is Sony) - so don't know whether to stick with this model or go back to Yams.

Hmmmff.
 

roger06

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Well with a heavy heart I've boxed up yet another Sony STR DA 2400 and this time am going to send both back for a refund.

Have sold old amp on eB@y so will have to watch TV / Blu Ray thru poor TV speakers (first time since '96). Sob sob.

What should I do ? get another from Amazon ? get a Yamaha or pay extra in a retailer and get 'em to set it up for me?
 

ElectroMan

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I'd probably have a demo of the actual unit you buy, and if it still doesn't work properly when you get it home, then you'll know something strange is happening!

In which case, ask the dealer to install it ...

emotion-5.gif
 

lcd4ever

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I would have tried a different length of speaker cable to the middle channel, or (and I know it sounds obvious) but was everything properly connected a the speaker cable terminations ie was the wire firmly in the banana plug(if you were using them) or if you were using bare wire was the exposed end oxidised at all....you could have trimmed back another inch or so of insulation and trimmed the ends. Finally did you try the manual speaker set up mode.....could have increased the level of the middle speaker yourself......
 

roger06

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I've tried four different lengths of cable to the centre - 2 runs terminated with Airlock plugs which are soundly fitted and two with bare wires...

I don't think there's anything I haven't tried!

I know the centre speaker itself is OK as I swapped it with the left front and played some 2 channel stuff through the Naim and it sounded as good as the stand-mount it replaced.
 

roger06

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Oh and yes, I adjusted the levels manually - the centre on max and all the rest on min. Trouble is that gives me nowhere else to go adjustment-wise. The centre was still hard to hear in action / dialogue mixes and the rears are too loud and being on min, obviously can't go any lower...
 
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Anonymous

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What a head-scratchingly difficult problem!! Looked at logically, you say that your tv has the same problem your blu-ray has. I take this to mean, and do correct me if my understanding is at fault, that you are referring to a tv box of some description, either a Virgin or Sky box, or a separate Freeview box? Or do you mean you are running the audio out of the tv via stereo interconnects into the amp and then applying Pro-Logic or similar to the signal? If it's a separate box, then I take it that you are running the kit into the amp via hdmi's. If that is so, have you checked how the amp is being asked to treat audio signals via the hdmi inputs - not just the output processing itself, but the audio assigns for the hdmi's themselves. Also, try using any of the alternative hdmi inputs too.

I would dismiss any possibility that the problem is your speaker or how you've wired it up - it appears that you've swapped the thing/rewired it several times over, and whilst it is possible that you made a mistake, I doubt very much to the point of dismissing the possibility that you can be making the same mistake over and over again without once realising it.

I would dismiss any possibility that it could be your hdmi cable too, on the grounds that this issue is affecting at least two pieces of kit, which I presume means you're using two hdmi's, one for each component. The likelihood that two hdmi cables have stopped working correctly, with exactly the same problem, at exactly the same time, is so close to zero that it can be considered irrelevant for your purposes as to being a causal factor - though you're right to consider that possibility too.

So, following Sherlock Holmes' dictum re. eliminating all other possibilities, you can safely remove : your components, the hdmi's, the speaker cables and the speaker from the possible causes list, what does that leave? Only the amp, and how it's set up. Forgive me if it appears that I'm treating you now as though you're stupid - I'm not, I'm simply checking every possibility with you. Looking at the back panel online, I note that there is only one set of centre speaker connectors available with this amp: are you sure you wired the speaker up to the right pair? I see that these connectors are set to the right of the other speaker sockets if you looked at the back panel straight on, as it were. Are those the sockets you used?

Finally, if you have the time, I would disconnect the centre speaker entirely and run the auto-calibration again, resetting if you can the amp to its' original preset values first, to see if the amp picks up any problem with its' connections. I'd also make sure you're not running the amp in pro-logic mode at all too; it's the only reason I am left able to think of as to why you're getting little or no signal at all from it ie it thinks that you're running some sort of stereo setup or other.

Not much help, I know.

Finally, you asked for opinions regarding alternative amps. I'm using a Yamaha DSP-AX763, and absolutely love it. Like you, I chose Yamaha for many, many years, then I opted for a Marantz about 6 years ago, then a Pioneer about 3 years ago. The Yamaha is far superior for me as an all-in-one amp. It's great for movies, packing a helluva punch especially with dts-hd ma soundtracks, and is as nimble as Muhammed Ali when it comes to throwing sound around the channels - it's really confident, accurate and immersive. Whilst no doubt there are better dedicated stereo amps out there, it's pretty good there too, though I probably lack a decent cd player to have a very worthwhile opinion on that aspect.
 
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Anonymous

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Have you tried resting the amp settings as described in the front of the manual. I had issues on my 2400ES with hdmi switching and a reset sorted out all the issues. If only I had Read The F*ing Manual first it would have saved me hours of fiddling ;o)
 

Gerrardasnails

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roger06:Oh and yes, I adjusted the levels manually - the centre on max and all the rest on min. Trouble is that gives me nowhere else to go adjustment-wise. The centre was still hard to hear in action / dialogue mixes and the rears are too loud and being on min, obviously can't go any lower...

If it is the amp - and you have sent them back now, I understand getting frustrated. However, if you love the sound, don't give up on the 2400. This seems to be a freak occurance. I would pop into a Sevenoaks or similar to demo one. Even take in just your centre speaker to add to theirs. You might even be able to buy the ex demo one.
 

roger06

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j6jno:
Have you tried resting the amp settings as described in the front of the manual. I had issues on my 2400ES with hdmi switching and a reset sorted out all the issues. If only I had Read The F*ing Manual first it would have saved me hours of fiddling ;o)

I reset the amp when I first turned it on (as, amazingly, I did read the manual !) - I guess I could try resetting it again and trying it.
 

roger06

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Kaotician - thanks for taking the time for such a lengthy reply.

I actually take the sound direct from the TV and the amp outputs it using Pro Logic. The sound from the centre does sound better than when watching Blu Ray but is still not great - the effects and incidental music etc is all so LOVELY and clear through all the other speakers that it overpowers the dialogue so you can hear it, but it doesn't sound great. I guess it sounds a little better as the dynamic range in BD is better, thus pumping more to the front and surround speakers thus over shadowing the weak centre dialogue.

I have checked, double checked and checked again the centre speaker connection. It's clearly wired in right as it does work. I've used alternative cables as well.

I haven't sent the amps back yet so will actually try to shoot some video tonight and post it. I know the sound issue won't work well but it'll show the problem.
 

The_Lhc

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I think the idea of Kaoticians to remove the centre speaker completely and then recalibrate so the centre channel comes through the front left and right is worth doing, then you can find out if it's a processing issue or an amp stage issue.

The other that you could try is to swap the speaker cables for the centre channel and left front at the amp end, ie don't change the cables at the speaker end ONLY the amp end (your channels will obviously be coming from the wrong places) but at least you can see if the problem moves or not.
 

roger06

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the_lhc:
I think the idea of Kaoticians to remove the centre speaker completely and then recalibrate so the centre channel comes through the front left and right is worth doing, then you can find out if it's a processing issue or an amp stage issue.

The other that you could try is to swap the speaker cables for the centre channel and left front at the amp end, ie don't change the cables at the speaker end ONLY the amp end (your channels will obviously be coming from the wrong places) but at least you can see if the problem moves or not.

I think it is a processing issue - when I do the auto cal the tones emitted from the centre are as loud and punchy as all the other speakers...
 

The_Lhc

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Well if you rip the centre channel speaker out, tell the amp you don't have a centre and then recalibrate you'll find out, if the dialogue is still inaudible it's definitely the amps.

I don't suppose these amps have firmware updates available for them do they?
 
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Anonymous

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Something else you should do then, assuming your kit allows you to, is the following, done alternately:

Go into your blu-ray player's setup menu, and change the size of your centre speaker to whatever option it offers you. Recalibrate the setup, then try a 5.1 soundtrack.

Assuming that doesn't make any difference, change the speaker setting back to it's original one, then go into the amp's setup menu and change the speaker size setting there too. Run the same test as before.

If that doesn't work, go back into the blu's menu again and change again the speaker setting. Run the test again.

I thought you mentioned that when running auto-cal the centre speaker tones were significantly quieter than the others? Perhaps I've misremembered....

EDIT: Also, although it's complicated, time-consuming and fiddly, could you post up your blu ray's settings or at least your amp's settings, maybe by taking screen photo's? Certainly the amp's, anyway, if poss?
 

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