Somebody please help me believe...

robdmarsh

Well-known member
Jun 28, 2015
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... that the modern budget "great speaker" can sound as good as the best vintage equivalent!

OK, I've been going on about this in other threads. But my Wharfedale Diamond 220s are a serious disappointment against my beaten up old Celestion 3 mkiis. Ok, I'm running them on a reasonably humble source, Marantz m-cr603 with decent Audioquest cables and that's it. But I really think my trusty old Celestions are in another league. Detail? Celestion wins. Seperation? Celestion again. Rhythmic drive? Celestion once more. Delicacy and overall musical involvement? Same result. Bass and integration of sound? A win maybe for the 220s, but that's really not a lot... the Celestions embarass the newbies on sheer enjoyment and value in every other department. Is it the case that the Wharfedales would come into their own with a higher rated amp and CD player with seperate DAC and all that jazz? Or do they need 200 hours of burn in?(!)

So why am I still whinging? Well, the mkii sound great with most of what I listen to. I listen to a lot of acoustic pop, folk, rock, jazz, some classical but I have pretty wide ranging music tastes... and with hard driving indie and a bit of hip hop (The Strokes, De La Soul etc) the old mkiis sound a bit pushed. I'm looking at used upgrades: B&W 601 s2/s3, Monitor Audio silver s4i or others. I think new I would have to spend £400 to get a sound that would satisfy on every level. I've heard Dali Zensor 3s and liked them but they probably need more breathing space than I can spare.

Can anyone help me find my sonic nirvana?
 
The Marantz is a more than capable all in one system. Did you not audition the diamond speakers first before buying. If its not too late why not take back & audition some other speakers. Am not familar with speakers of that size. If any I would recommend Q Acoustics Concept 20.
 
robdmarsh said:
But my Wharfedale Diamond 220s are a serious disappointment against my beaten up old Celestion 3 mkiis.

Those Celestions are known for quite some time as Sonus Faber, B&W and KEF killers.
 
Thanks for the replies.

No, I didn't audition the 220s. They were an open box bargain and I believed the hype! Any suggestions? Q acoustics 3020 I've heard and were not too impressed by.
 
May be your just like myself. Am not really a fan of most of the popular speakers out there. I think you need to found a nice friendly Hifi shop & audition as many speakers as possible. Thats the only way for sure you hear the sound you really like. Others may be able to make suggestions.
 
Try Celestion 66's. Or some variation on that theme. Something good and something not too expensive these days.
 
Vladimir said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Vladimir said:
Thompsonuxb said:
How long have you had the wharfdales?

Aren't you in jail for playing sleazy music in public with your windows down?

Naaaah!

The Prince tracks are not sleazy either, so there.

Tidal on the front page is telling me I should listen to sleazy. But he is no Schubert either.

Schubert is dead. You can still see Prince live, which I suggest everyone does before they die. He's a class act.
 
I remember the Celesion 3 mkII very well. I auditioned a pair in about 1994. I was very pleased with what I heard, but ended up directing the money elsewhere in my system because my existing speakers weren't the weakest link. If I recall they were about £250 and were bloody good for the money. You might be being a little unreasonable expecting modern speakers in the same price-bracket to out-perform them. I'm sure there are exceptions but my rule of thumb for HiFi is if you really want to hear improvements you usually have to double the price.
 
MajorFubar said:
I remember the Celesion 3 mkII very well. I auditioned a pair in about 1994. I was very pleased with what I heard, but ended up directing the money elsewhere in my system because my existing speakers weren't the weakest link. If I recall they were about £250 and were bloody good for the money. You might be being a little unreasonable expecting modern speakers in the same price-bracket to out-perform them. I'm sure there are exceptions but my rule of thumb for HiFi is if you really want to hear improvements you usually have to double the price.

250 pounds a bit over 20 years ago, so I wonder what that is today adjusted for inflation.

http://safalra.com/other/historical-uk-inflation-price-conversion/

430 pounds according to that site, so maybe you should be comparing them to 400-500 pound speakers at current prices.
 
Thanks for the comments, guys.

I've had the Wharfedales for about 6 weeks. They've got better with running in (thankfully, they were dreadful at first!) but I can't imagine much more improvement. The sweet but detailed treble of the Celestions is just not there with them, something which really shows up with a lot of the music I listen to. Thing is, something must have a similar sound signature out there with more punch. I'm looking at B&W 601 s2 and 3 because I remember hearing the s2 and quite liking them. I'm also not worried about the metal domed tweeter as the Celestions have them and I don't find them shrill. A good match for the Marantz?
 
Thanks for the comments, guys.

I've had the Wharfedales for about 6 weeks. They've got better with running in (thankfully, they were dreadful at first!) but I can't imagine much more improvement. The sweet but detailed treble of the Celestions is just not there with them, something which really shows up with a lot of the music I listen to. Thing is, something must have a similar sound signature out there with more punch. I'm looking at B&W 601 s2 and 3 because I remember hearing the s2 and quite liking them. I'm also not worried about the metal domed tweeter as the Celestions have them and I don't find them shrill. A good match for the Marantz?
 
ID. said:
MajorFubar said:
I remember the Celesion 3 mkII very well. I auditioned a pair in about 1994. I was very pleased with what I heard, but ended up directing the money elsewhere in my system because my existing speakers weren't the weakest link. If I recall they were about £250 and were bloody good for the money. You might be being a little unreasonable expecting modern speakers in the same price-bracket to out-perform them. I'm sure there are exceptions but my rule of thumb for HiFi is if you really want to hear improvements you usually have to double the price.

250 pounds a bit over 20 years ago, so I wonder what that is today adjusted for inflation.

http://safalra.com/other/historical-uk-inflation-price-conversion/

430 pounds according to that site, so maybe you should be comparing them to 400-500 pound speakers at current prices.

What he said......at some point im going to have to replace my Mission 733i's which were £330 back in 1997, im fully expecting to have to fork £500-1000 to get something that i consider an improvement.
 
Thompsonuxb said:
You think that's bad I have mission 782se's - I'm looking at around 1500quid!

Mine were 4500DM back in early 90s, now I should be looking into 4500 euros range.
 

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