Some connection advice please chaps.

[Thompsonuxb]

Now harshness is a much better description. Thats exactly what I'm hearing. At 9 o'clock on the dial you'd have to be listening for it, but it 10 o'clock its unmissable.

what you are experiencing is your amp going past its peek - most modern amps that I have had the chance to listen to seem to favour the 9 o;clock position to deliver its full power output. beyond that you have varying levels of distortion depending on the quality of the cd/source - the lower the EQ level of the recording the further you can push, but on a good quality recording you end up with the harshness/distortion/hardening up.

Only heard the K2 in a demo room and it actually sounded good - only lack of tone controls, single speaker outs and the cosmetic design made me not buy it. But within its band/scope it does sound fine imo

 

[TubularTechnician]

Funny you should say that Cno, I demoed the K2 v the Arcam A19 and bolder was the word I used to the retailer to describe the K2 and was the reason I picked it.

Thompsonuxb: yes 9 is fine and even at 10 its only on certain tracks that the problem comes into play so I think you have valid points there. Problem is that soundstage takes a hit at 9 and I really love the soundstge from the LS50's.

 

[CnoEvil]

Funny you should say that Cno, I demoed the K2 v the Arcam A19 and bolder was the word I used to the retailer to describe the K2 and was the reason I picked it.

Thompsonuxb: yes 9 is fine and even at 10 its only on certain tracks that the problem comes into play so I think you have valid points there. Problem is that soundstage takes a hit at 9 and I really love the soundstge from the LS50's.

Would the dealer let you borrow the A19?.....as that could shed further light on things. The room is the oft forgotton (important) component in a hifi system.

 

[TubularTechnician]

I could ask, I'm buying all the sonos stuff from them so theres a chance he may. Thing is, on one of my demo Cd's Alanis Morrisette sounded very piercingly hissy with the arcam but not with the K2. I felt the K2 filled her out more in the demo room but she's back to hissy again in this room. But I demoed with the R100's as opposed to the LS50's I ended up getting, if that helps make the problem clearer ! 🙂 🙂

 

[CnoEvil]

Amp + Speakers + Room + Taste, all go into the mix.....so it's getting the right balance, which can take a bit of experimentation. If the dealer is worth his salt, he will want to make sure you are happy with what you've bought from him, and so co-operate.

The R100s are a little smoother, so "may" have worked better with the K2...for your taste.

What are your speaker cables (sorry if you've already said), and what did they use for the demo.

 

[TubularTechnician]

They were using Chord speaker cables.

I'm using Tellurium Q Blue with Atlas Compass from CDP to Dac and Atlas Equator MKIII from DAC to amp

 

[CnoEvil]

They were using Chord speaker cables.

I'm using Tellurium Q Blue with Atlas Compass from CDP to Dac and Atlas Equator MKIII from DAC to amp

I see no problem with your cables, so i suspect they are not contributing to the problem.

 

[visionary]

I could ask, I'm buying all the sonos stuff from them so theres a chance he may. Thing is, on one of my demo Cd's Alanis Morrisette sounded very piercingly hissy with the arcam but not with the K2. I felt the K2 filled her out more in the demo room but she's back to hissy again in this room. But I demoed with the R100's as opposed to the LS50's I ended up getting, if that helps make the problem clearer ! 🙂 🙂

If you mean 'Jagged Little Pill' then it sounds like your room needs some softening. Get those cushions and curtains to make SWMBO happy and that will help.

I was listening to that album last week on 12 and it was great but it is a fairly 'harsh' recording

 

[TubularTechnician]

Just done a very interesting experiment. (well for me anyhow 🙂 ) I have in my vinyl box The Beautiful South's Song For Whoever, which was given to me by an ex in 89 but never played as I'd had no system since 86. Played it at 10 on the dial and it sounded superb,no crackling like my other vinyl stuff and no noticable harshness at all. Just played CD version of the same song on a comp album at 10 on the dial and got Jenifer, Alisssshon, Philipa Ssssshue !

Aha, I thought, DAC could be the issue here

So bypassed the DAC with RCA's from CDP straight to amp but same harshness exists. :?

 

[CnoEvil]

So bypassed the DAC with RCA's from CDP straight to amp but same harshness exists. :?

It may be that CD's particular mastering.....possibly having some compression.

 

[davedotco]

Just done a very interesting experiment. (well for me anyhow 🙂 ) I have in my vinyl box The Beautiful South's Song For Whoever, which was given to me by an ex in 89 but never played as I'd had no system since 86. Played it at 10 on the dial and it sounded superb,no crackling like my other vinyl stuff and no noticable harshness at all. Just played CD version of the same song on a comp album at 10 on the dial and got Jenifer, Alisssshon, Philipa Ssssshue !

Aha, I thought, DAC could be the issue here

So bypassed the DAC with RCA's from CDP straight to amp but same harshness exists. :?

OK, Try the CD v analogue comparison again but be very careful with the volume levels, the CD may be much louder than the record player at the same setting of the volume control, see if that makes a difference. It may just be a cr*p CD, there are a lot about.

In any case, I think the soft furnishings will make a big difference, particularly the floor rug. If you have hard surfaces either side of or behind the listening position try breaking them up, shelf units for example.

 

[TubularTechnician]

The wife has their greatest hits album so I'm giving that a go in comparison. On the previous test the CD was noticably louder than the vinyl on the same dial setting so that probably was a big factor.

Have the Stones on at the mo at half 9 on the dial and no bad harshness but I have had it with this album at 10 on the dial with a lot of harshness last week, but heard a terrible knocking sound just now which made me think the system had blown something, but it was Mrs Tech banging on the bedroom floor with her 'Katie Price, Being Jordan' hardback. I think she wants me to turn it down ! 🙂

 

[davedotco]

The wife has their greatest hits album so I'm giving that a go in comparison. On the previous test the CD was noticably louder than the vinyl on the same dial setting so that probably was a big factor.

Have the Stones on at the mo at half 9 on the dial and no bad harshness but I have had it with this album at 10 on the dial with a lot of harshness last week, but heard a terrible knocking sound just now which made me think the system had blown something, but it was Mrs Tech banging on the bedroom floor with her 'Katie Price, Being Jordan' hardback. I think she wants me to turn it down ! 🙂

Random thoughts.

A couple of strategically placed shelving units for Mrs Techs collection of Katie Price books, play it right and you are doing her a favour.

Try rewireing the setup like this, CD analogue out to Sonos local input, Sonos digital out to dac, then as normal.

Access your Sonos, make sure it is set to give variable output and turn the level down about 6 - 10dB. You should find thar you now have a much greater range of control on your anplifier volume knob, which might help you find that sweet spot, volume wise.

(Was going to suggest getting Katie Price herself for your listening room, lots of soft furnishings there, but decided it was probably inappropriate)

 

[TubularTechnician]

Yes bit of piercing with the vinyl at past 10 and the cd at 10. No more testing tonight or she's going to smash the f'in thing to f'in pieces apparently ! Charming .

Room needs softening I think, before I make any costly adjustments and need to get used to the dial at 9.30 rather than 10. Room has a bare wall right behind the sofa and its only 8' from the speakers, put that with a wooden floor and the left speaker under the 3m ceiling and the right under the 2m ceiling, toed in and 30cm from the wall and 90cm from a corner, coupled with the left speaker toed in with half of it 30cm from the wall but the other half into a 12'' door reveal and its not hard to see I was always going to have problems. No other way to configure the kit in this room though.

I suppose putting glass photo frames behind the listening position on the wall isn't going to help ? or would it be of benefit as it would be breaking up the flat surface ? I can't shell out for a canvassed oil painting, she'll smell a rat. She's already getting suspicious that a scaffolder is taking an interest in soft furnishings 😳 :shame:

 

[TubularTechnician]

The wife has their greatest hits album so I'm giving that a go in comparison. On the previous test the CD was noticably louder than the vinyl on the same dial setting so that probably was a big factor.

Have the Stones on at the mo at half 9 on the dial and no bad harshness but I have had it with this album at 10 on the dial with a lot of harshness last week, but heard a terrible knocking sound just now which made me think the system had blown something, but it was Mrs Tech banging on the bedroom floor with her 'Katie Price, Being Jordan' hardback. I think she wants me to turn it down ! 🙂

Random thoughts.

A couple of strategically placed shelving units for Mrs Techs collection of Katie Price books, play it right and you are doing her a favour.

Try rewireing the setup like this, CD analogue out to Sonos local input, Sonos digital out to dac, then as normal.

Access your Sonos, make sure it is set to give variable output and turn the level down about 6 - 10dB. You should find thar you now have a much greater range of control on your anplifier volume knob, which might help you find that sweet spot, volume wise.

(Was going to suggest getting Katie Price herself for your listening room, lots of soft furnishings there, but decided it was probably inappropriate)

Ha Ha, indeed, but I'd say with the amount of time she's spent in the panel beaters getting it all re-shaped, the cushions may be more leathery than my sofa !

should be able to pick the sonos up early next week so I'll gice the connection advice a go then.

 

[davedotco]

Yes bit of piercing with the vinyl at past 10 and the cd at 10. No more testing tonight or she's going to smash the f'in thing to f'in pieces apparently ! Charming .

Room needs softening I think, before I make any costly adjustments and need to get used to the dial at 9.30 rather than 10. Room has a bare wall right behind the sofa and its only 8' from the speakers, put that with a wooden floor and the left speaker under the 3m ceiling and the right under the 2m ceiling, toed in and 30cm from the wall and 90cm from a corner, coupled with the left speaker toed in with half of it 30cm from the wall but the other half into a 12'' door reveal and its not hard to see I was always going to have problems. No other way to configure the kit in this room though.

I suppose putting glass photo frames behind the listening position on the wall isn't going to help ? or would it be of benefit as it would be breaking up the flat surface ? I can't shell out for a canvassed oil painting, she'll smell a rat. She's already getting suspicious that a scaffolder is taking an interest in soft furnishings 😳 :shame:

Be careful, the last time I spent real money on my hifi and upset Mrs D it cost me a few days at the cricket.

In Bridgetown........ :O

 

[TubularTechnician]

Its cost me already. If I can waste money on , and I quote, '' Geek cr*p '' , then I can afford to buy the 50 inch 3d Telly her and my daughters want. This will enable them to watch 'what Peter did next', Jeremy Kyle and the delightful Kerry Katona in glorious inky blacks.

As my Mother told me just as I was about to walk up the aisle, "While I can understand you being tempted to dabble in the servants quarters, I shall never understand why you've chose to marry from them"

 

[davedotco]

Its cost me already. If I can waste money on , and I quote, '' Geek cr*p '' , then I can afford to buy the 50 inch 3d Telly her and my daughters want. This will enable them to watch 'what Peter did next', Jeremy Kyle and the delightful Kerry Katona in glorious inky blacks.

As my Mother told me just as I was about to walk up the aisle, "While I can understand you being tempted to dabble in the servants quarters, I shall never understand why you've chose to marry from them"

I have managed to ween Mrs D off cr*p TV by insisting on recording the stuff we actually watch and, by and large, watching nothing live.

We also have an arrangement that allows me to watch or listen to live football and cricket on the computer, with headphones. I can also browse Spotify looking for new stuff, Diiv, Baltic Fleet etc are keeping me well clear of 'Come dine with me'.

 

[The_Lhc]

Access your Sonos, make sure it is set to give variable output and turn the level down about 6 - 10dB. You should find thar you now have a much greater range of control on your anplifier volume knob, which might help you find that sweet spot, volume wise.

Don't go mad with that though, Sonos uses a digital volume control, it remains bit-perfect for most of the range but not if you turn it down too far.

(Was going to suggest getting Katie Price herself for your listening room, lots of soft furnishings there, but decided it was probably inappropriate)

I don't think there's anything soft about Ms Price tbh...

 

[davedotco]

Access your Sonos, make sure it is set to give variable output and turn the level down about 6 - 10dB. You should find thar you now have a much greater range of control on your anplifier volume knob, which might help you find that sweet spot, volume wise.

Don't go mad with that though, Sonos uses a digital volume control, it remains bit-perfect for most of the range but not if you turn it down too far.

(Was going to suggest getting Katie Price herself for your listening room, lots of soft furnishings there, but decided it was probably inappropriate)

I don't think there's anything soft about Ms Price tbh...

Hence the suggestion to limit the level change to 6 - 10dB, lose 2 bits maximum, given that the Sonos processor is 24 bit that is way better than the real resolution of the system (or any other system for that matter).

I live just down the road from the Sky studios in west London, once when Katie was all over the tabloids for something or orther I was stopped by a crew doing a 'vox pop'.

They asked me what I thought of Jordan.

I replied that though I had never been there, my luggage was once sent to Amman. (True)

They did look a bit confused...... :doh: