So, the truth is out.

[nopiano]

We still have unamplified instruments and human voices don't we? You can tell a lot about a system from a voice via the BBC and, say, a decent piano recording.

That theoretically should be true, but if you think about all the steps between an instrument being recorded and you hearing it through your speakers, you'll realise you're aiming for a moving target. There is no one version of the truth to aim for.

Think of recording just solo piano. If you were stood next to the artist during the recording session and you could completely and perfectly memorise how it sounded for future comparison, that would be one version of the truth. If you were sat next to the recording engineer listening on the monitor speakers in the control room, that would be another version of the truth, because even by that point the live sound of the piano has been influenced by the microphones and all the gear it passes through to be recorded, and of course the sound signature of the monitor speakers. If you listen to the producer's final mix, that potentially would be another version of the truth, because he will add EQ, compression and other effects to reflect the sound he or his client is after. And if you listen to the mastering engineer's final master, that's potentially another version of the truth, because he's tasked with taking the producer's mix and making it marketable, and we all know songs and albums can have multiple masters which sound different to each other depending on the intended market and distribution medium.

By this stage, it's possible what's distributed is far removed from that listening experience you had when stood next to the artist. Or, more positively, and probably more likely with just solo piano, it could be as close as the producer and mastering engineer have been able to make it, depending on theirs and the client's preference. But you can't know. You can only know whether your system replays it a way you think is enjoyable and engaging and which seems to convey the emotion.

I get what no pianno says and agree but also what you say as once its recorded its a different matter. Ive always thought cold play put the pianno too far away in the mix if you know what i mean

Yes, I realise quite a lot can hapen in the process. I was thinking of a relatively 'straight' recording, like a Wigmore Hall feed from the BBC, where the comparison is not with standing next to the pianist, but from a typical seat in the venue/hall. I know all the stage noises, pedal thumps, and damper buzzes that can arise, and funnily enough a system that doesn't mangle them sounds pretty realistic to my ears.

 

[DocG]

After owning many £1000 - £2000 systems, and then moving up to a system that cost £6700, and then a £13000 system that still didn't get me to where I wanted, then a £28000 system and finally a £60000 plus system, I can only laugh at such a statement. Though, unlike most people, I have no wife or neighbours. Maybe I'm missing something?

And without sounding arrogant, in the grand scheme of things, £5000 doesn't really get you very far. It just depends what you want. But if you want a system that can deal with dynamic range effortlessly and present a huge soundstage, accurately and within a large space, then you've got to spend a hell of a lot more than five grand.

Posts like this are the reason I don't contribute much on here. But I do find the forum as a whole rather amusing. Quite surprised that Gazzip even feels the need to. Fact 12's are amazing. I know. I owned a pair.

Where did you go from the Fact 12's, Rob?

Yes, I'm also interested (as in genuinely interested) what your system is, Rob. Exotic turntable? Idiosyncratic speakers? Cables? Room treatment?

 

[lindsayt]

In April 2013 RobM had "2010 MacBook Pro playing Wav's into a Leema Acoustics Elements Dac - Leema Pyxis Pre - 1 x Leema Hydra 2 - PMC 22's."

Which would make it a circa £10k (£13k???) system if he bought it all new.

I think it's great that it would seem that he's had a financially successful 3 years during which he's been able to invest a further £50,000 in audio equipment.

 

[Andrewjvt]

If, as suggested there is no or very little difference between cheap and expensive hifi.

Would I be right in thinking that a well put together cd,amp and speakers costing all in say £800 would perform as well as a system of say £5000

I'm a bit out of touch with the news. Who's suggested such a thing? And who's truth is this?

After owning many £1000 - £2000 systems, and then moving up to a system that cost £6700, and then a £13000 system that still didn't get me to where I wanted, then a £28000 system and finally a £60000 plus system, I can only laugh at such a statement. Though, unlike most people, I have no wife or neighbours. Maybe I'm missing something? 

And without sounding arrogant, in the grand scheme of things, £5000 doesn't really get you very far. It just depends what you want. But if you want a system that can deal with dynamic range effortlessly and present a  huge soundstage, accurately and within a large space, then you've got to spend a hell of a lot more than five grand. 

Posts like this are the reason I don't contribute much on here. But I do find the forum as a whole rather amusing. Quite surprised that Gazzip even feels the need to. Fact 12's are amazing. I know. I owned a pair. 

 

 

 

My personal opinion but if youve spent £60000 on passive then sell the lot and get avi dm10s

 

[MajorFubar]

Yes, I realise quite a lot can hapen in the process. I was thinking of a relatively 'straight' recording, like a Wigmore Hall feed from the BBC, where the comparison is not with standing next to the pianist, but from a typical seat in the venue/hall. I know all the stage noises, pedal thumps, and damper buzzes that can arise, and funnily enough a system that doesn't mangle them sounds pretty realistic to my ears.

Yep very true, and it's those kind of cues that can give you an idea as to generally how well a system is performing. But it's only when I first realised lots of albums have several different masters which all sound different did it dawn on me that trying to find a perfect system which reproduces the uncoloured and untainted 'one version of the truth' is a near impossibility. When like RobM you've reached such a high level of replay performance, there's still an opportunity for systems to sound different to each other, but no one can ever say which is right and which is wrong because there isn't an absolute reference on which to accurately measure the system's ability, unless you yourself have controlled every aspect of the recording chain.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Yes, I realise quite a lot can hapen in the process.  I was thinking of a relatively 'straight' recording, like a Wigmore Hall feed from the BBC, where the comparison is not with standing next to the pianist, but from a typical seat in the venue/hall.  I know all the stage noises, pedal thumps, and damper buzzes that can arise, and  funnily enough a system that doesn't mangle them sounds pretty realistic to my ears.

Yep very true, and it's those kind of cues that can give you an idea as to generally how well a system is performing. But it's only when I first realised lots of albums have several different masters which all sound different did it dawn on me that trying to find a perfect system which reproduces the uncoloured and untainted 'one version of the truth' is a near impossibility. When like RobM you've reached such a high level of replay performance, there's still an opportunity for systems to sound different to each other, but no one can ever say which is right and which is wrong because there isn't an absolute reference on which to accurately measure the system's ability, unless you yourself have controlled every aspect of the recording chain.

For sure but regardless of masters id like a system that tries to remain as neutral as possible and not add anything to the mix

 

[MajorFubar]

For sure but regardless of masters id like a system that tries to remain as neutral as possible and not add anything to the mix

We all think we want that (says me, generalising), but I highly suspect, even if such a system truly existed, and it was placed in a listening environment so perfect that it completely untainted one's perception of the system's sound, most people would find it utterly boring.

Before digital arrived there wasn't even a mass-market method to distribute music to the masses without in many cases having to compromise the recording, especially the bass, which often was rolled off sharply below 100Hz to aid with both tracking and facilitating a playing duration of more than 15-17mins per side. Which is one of the reasons tone controls were popular: to help the listener to compensate. That's why some digital transfers from the original masters of old albums (rock and metal especially) can sound lifeless when played 'flat' on a neutral system. Modern remasters should have sorted out all that and rebalanced the EQ, but we know the story there unfortunately.

 

[MajorFubar]

Posts like this are the reason I don't contribute much on here. But I do find the forum as a whole rather amusing. Quite surprised that Gazzip even feels the need to.

He possibly finds us quaint and amusing to play with, like how a superior alien race who have banished all wars and mastered interstellar space travel might see us as primative apes. On the other hand it could also be because he enjoys contributing to the forum without feeling the need to belittle us.

 

[RobM]

Hi Gazzip,

I went in exactly the opposite direction you've gone. Since getting rid of my Fact 12's, I'm now running BB5SE's on the end of a pair of Leema Acoustics Altair IV monoblocks. The BB5SE's were picked up second hand, and from what I know, didn't have much more than a years use with the previous owner. I have made some considerable savings along the way, and so haven't paid anywhere near what my system should of cost, even though everything else apart from the speakers were bought new. The rest of my system comprises of Leema Pyxis Pre, Leema Antila IIS Eco CD player, Leema Elements Dac, being fed by Wav files on a MacBook Pro using Audirvana Plus. All cabling is Chord Signature, and everything sits on Audiophile Base Quatrrabase and Stratabase platforms, which sit on a mixture of titanium and stainless steel Silent Mounts.

Like you say, the effortlessness of the BB5's is truly remarkable, and the system does command some respect, from a health and safety point of view! As for the rest of my system, I'm very happy with it. It's been a long journey, and now the last piece of the puzzle is room treatment. Though I can't help wondering what a Chord Dave Dac would sound like on my system?

Regarding the Fact 12's, I still miss them in a strange way. They certainly put out a sound that defies their size, and can do some things the BB5SE's can't. But as with everything in life, there are always compromises to be made, and no one thing in life can do it all.

All the best, Rob

 

[Gazzip]

Hi Gazzip,

I went in exactly the opposite direction you've gone. Since getting rid of my Fact 12's, I'm now running BB5SE's on the end of a pair of Leema Acoustics Altair IV monoblocks. The BB5SE's were picked up second hand, and from what I know, didn't have much more than a years use with the previous owner. I have made some considerable savings along the way, and so haven't paid anywhere near what my system should of cost, even though everything else apart from the speakers were bought new. The rest of my system comprises of Leema Pyxis Pre, Leema Antila IIS Eco CD player, Leema Elements Dac, being fed by Wav files on a MacBook Pro using Audirvana Plus. All cabling is Chord Signature, and everything sits on Audiophile Base Quatrrabase and Stratabase platforms, which sit on a mixture of titanium and stainless steel Silent Mounts.

Like you say, the effortlessness of the BB5's is truly remarkable, and the system does command some respect, from a health and safety point of view! As for the rest of my system, I'm very happy with it. It's been a long journey, and now the last piece of the puzzle is room treatment. Though I can't help wondering what a Chord Dave Dac would sound like on my system?

Regarding the Fact 12's, I still miss them in a strange way. They certainly put out a sound that defies their size, and can do some things the BB5SE's can't. But as with everything in life, there are always compromises to be made, and no one thing in life can do it all.

All the best, Rob

Hi Rob,

Without getting all gushy I think you may have bought my BB5SE's. The guy who bought them from my dealer traded in some FACT 12's in graphite poplar, and I owned my BB5SE's for 13 months... Was it Fanthorpes who did the deal?

Either way I know what you mean about both having their own strengths. Sometimes I miss that effortlessness of the big boxes and at other times I am thankful for the speed and punch of the 12's. As you say life is about compromise...

I am also twitching over the Chord Dave. Perhaps we could go in together and try to get a deal. I know Dale likes to negotiate... All the best, GazziP

 

[Al ears]

If, as suggested there is no or very little difference between cheap and expensive hifi.

Would I be right in thinking that a well put together cd,amp and speakers costing all in say £800 would perform as well as a system of

I'm a bit out of touch with the news. Who's suggested such a thing? And who's truth is this?

After owning many £1000 - £2000 systems, and then moving up to a system that cost £6700, and then a £13000 system that still didn't get me to where I wanted, then a £28000 system and finally a £60000 plus system, I can only laugh at such a statement. Though, unlike most people, I have no wife or neighbours. Maybe I'm missing something?

And without sounding arrogant, in the grand scheme of things, £5000 doesn't really get you very far. It just depends what you want. But if you want a system that can deal with dynamic range effortlessly and present a huge soundstage, accurately and within a large space, then you've got to spend a hell of a lot more than five grand.

Posts like this are the reason I don't contribute much on here. But I do find the forum as a whole rather amusing. Quite surprised that Gazzip even feels the need to. Fact 12's are amazing. I know. I owned a pair.

My personal opinion but if youve spent £60000 on passive then sell the lot and get avi dm10s

There are some on here that shouldn't be.

;-)

 

[Andrewjvt]

If, as suggested there is no or very little difference between cheap and expensive hifi.

Would I be right in thinking that a well put together cd,amp and speakers costing all in say £800 would perform as well as a system of

 

I'm a bit out of touch with the news. Who's suggested such a thing? And who's truth is this?

After owning many £1000 - £2000 systems, and then moving up to a system that cost £6700, and then a £13000 system that still didn't get me to where I wanted, then a £28000 system and finally a £60000 plus system, I can only laugh at such a statement. Though, unlike most people, I have no wife or neighbours. Maybe I'm missing something? 

And without sounding arrogant, in the grand scheme of things, £5000 doesn't really get you very far. It just depends what you want. But if you want a system that can deal with dynamic range effortlessly and present a  huge soundstage, accurately and within a large space, then you've got to spend a hell of a lot more than five grand. 

Posts like this are the reason I don't contribute much on here. But I do find the forum as a whole rather amusing. Quite surprised that Gazzip even feels the need to. Fact 12's are amazing. I know. I owned a pair. 

 

 

 

My personal opinion but if youve spent £60000 on passive then sell the lot and get avi dm10s

There are some on here that shouldn't be.

  ;-)

And there are some on here that dont give a **** what you think

 

[avole]

If, as suggested there is no or very little difference between cheap and expensive hifi.

Would I be right in thinking that a well put together cd,amp and speakers costing all in say £800 would perform as well as a system of

I'm a bit out of touch with the news. Who's suggested such a thing? And who's truth is this?

After owning many £1000 - £2000 systems, and then moving up to a system that cost £6700, and then a £13000 system that still didn't get me to where I wanted, then a £28000 system and finally a £60000 plus system, I can only laugh at such a statement. Though, unlike most people, I have no wife or neighbours. Maybe I'm missing something?

And without sounding arrogant, in the grand scheme of things, £5000 doesn't really get you very far. It just depends what you want. But if you want a system that can deal with dynamic range effortlessly and present a huge soundstage, accurately and within a large space, then you've got to spend a hell of a lot more than five grand.

Posts like this are the reason I don't contribute much on here. But I do find the forum as a whole rather amusing. Quite surprised that Gazzip even feels the need to. Fact 12's are amazing. I know. I owned a pair.

My personal opinion but if youve spent £60000 on passive then sell the lot and get avi dm10s

There are some on here that shouldn't be.

;-)

And there are some on here that dont give a **** what you think

doesn't gain you respect, old chap. You should apologise, that was totally uncalled for.

 

[RobM]

Hi Gazzip,

I went in exactly the opposite direction you've gone. Since getting rid of my Fact 12's, I'm now running BB5SE's on the end of a pair of Leema Acoustics Altair IV monoblocks. The BB5SE's were picked up second hand, and from what I know, didn't have much more than a years use with the previous owner. I have made some considerable savings along the way, and so haven't paid anywhere near what my system should of cost, even though everything else apart from the speakers were bought new. The rest of my system comprises of Leema Pyxis Pre, Leema Antila IIS Eco CD player, Leema Elements Dac, being fed by Wav files on a MacBook Pro using Audirvana Plus. All cabling is Chord Signature, and everything sits on Audiophile Base Quatrrabase and Stratabase platforms, which sit on a mixture of titanium and stainless steel Silent Mounts.

Like you say, the effortlessness of the BB5's is truly remarkable, and the system does command some respect, from a health and safety point of view! As for the rest of my system, I'm very happy with it. It's been a long journey, and now the last piece of the puzzle is room treatment. Though I can't help wondering what a Chord Dave Dac would sound like on my system?

Regarding the Fact 12's, I still miss them in a strange way. They certainly put out a sound that defies their size, and can do some things the BB5SE's can't. But as with everything in life, there are always compromises to be made, and no one thing in life can do it all.

All the best, Rob

Hi Rob,

Without getting all gushy I think you may have bought my BB5SE's. The guy who bought them from my dealer traded in some FACT 12's in graphite poplar, and I owned my BB5SE's for 13 months... Was it Fanthorpes who did the deal?

Either way I know what you mean about both having their own strengths. Sometimes I miss that effortlessness of the big boxes and at other times I am thankful for the speed and punch of the 12's. As you say life is about compromise...

I am also twitching over the Chord Dave. Perhaps we could go in together and try to get a deal. I know Dale likes to negotiate... All the best, GazziP

Hi Gazzip,

Yes, it was Fanthorpes, and Dale who I dealt with. And yes, I traded in my Fact 12's in Graphite Poplar. It's funny, because I read all the PMC related posts on here, and have read quite a few of yours over the years, and had wondered if you might of been the previous owner of the said BB5SE's. I actually posted a message to you asking a few questions about them, but never got a reply, so I could never be certain. I auditioned the BB5's on your old Brystons, and your post you'd written about the day you said goodbye to them gave me a hunch. Not like there's going to be many people selling a pair of Brystons and BB5's!

When I saw them come on the market, I knew I owed it to myself to go and audition them. And when I learnt how they weren't much more than a year old, I knew that it was probably going to be very unlikely that a pair of BB5SE's such as these would ever come on the secondhand market again.

It was a huge undertaking, quite literally, to pick them up and get them back to the highlands, but the effort was well worth it.

Though I do miss that speed and punch you mention, that you get from the 12's, and prefer them for lower level listening, and would of loved to of kept them, but that wasn't an option.

A trip to Hull to listen to the Dave Dac would be interesting and would be good to meet up too if it worked out like that. Dale was a pleasure to deal with and I'll definitely be using Fanthorpes again in the future.

All the best, Rob

 

[lindsayt]

2nd hand PMC BB5SE's vs 2nd hand EV Sentry III's. RobM would you be interested in such a bake-off?

 

[Rimse]

Recently I was able to audition a system at my dealers comprising of a Nad M12 / M22 combo paired with JMR Bliss Silver speakers. The system came in at around £9k. The value of my current system and ones I've had in the past are usually around the £3K mark. I can categorically say that this particular £9k system was a world apart from the other systems I've owned, and I've had quite a few combos. I will not forget in a hurry what i heard that day. Things start to get truly interesting around that price point.

actually it is good point,when I heard system costing even more,I could not get that kind of sound of my head for 3 months and listen my monitor audio rs6 speakers with cheap amp and source

 

[Gazzip]

2nd hand PMC BB5SE's vs 2nd hand EV Sentry III's. RobM would you be interested in such a bake-off?

So Rob's supplying the PMCs and you're supplying the Sentries. Who's supplying the forklift truck?

 

[Gazzip]

Hi Gazzip,

I went in exactly the opposite direction you've gone. Since getting rid of my Fact 12's, I'm now running BB5SE's on the end of a pair of Leema Acoustics Altair IV monoblocks. The BB5SE's were picked up second hand, and from what I know, didn't have much more than a years use with the previous owner. I have made some considerable savings along the way, and so haven't paid anywhere near what my system should of cost, even though everything else apart from the speakers were bought new. The rest of my system comprises of Leema Pyxis Pre, Leema Antila IIS Eco CD player, Leema Elements Dac, being fed by Wav files on a MacBook Pro using Audirvana Plus. All cabling is Chord Signature, and everything sits on Audiophile Base Quatrrabase and Stratabase platforms, which sit on a mixture of titanium and stainless steel Silent Mounts.

Like you say, the effortlessness of the BB5's is truly remarkable, and the system does command some respect, from a health and safety point of view! As for the rest of my system, I'm very happy with it. It's been a long journey, and now the last piece of the puzzle is room treatment. Though I can't help wondering what a Chord Dave Dac would sound like on my system?

Regarding the Fact 12's, I still miss them in a strange way. They certainly put out a sound that defies their size, and can do some things the BB5SE's can't. But as with everything in life, there are always compromises to be made, and no one thing in life can do it all.

All the best, Rob

Hi Rob,

Without getting all gushy I think you may have bought my BB5SE's. The guy who bought them from my dealer traded in some FACT 12's in graphite poplar, and I owned my BB5SE's for 13 months... Was it Fanthorpes who did the deal?

Either way I know what you mean about both having their own strengths. Sometimes I miss that effortlessness of the big boxes and at other times I am thankful for the speed and punch of the 12's. As you say life is about compromise...

I am also twitching over the Chord Dave. Perhaps we could go in together and try to get a deal. I know Dale likes to negotiate... All the best, GazziP

Hi Gazzip,

Yes, it was Fanthorpes, and Dale who I dealt with. And yes, I traded in my Fact 12's in Graphite Poplar. It's funny, because I read all the PMC related posts on here, and have read quite a few of yours over the years, and had wondered if you might of been the previous owner of the said BB5SE's. I actually posted a message to you asking a few questions about them, but never got a reply, so I could never be certain. I auditioned the BB5's on your old Brystons, and your post you'd written about the day you said goodbye to them gave me a hunch. Not like there's going to be many people selling a pair of Brystons and BB5's!

When I saw them come on the market, I knew I owed it to myself to go and audition them. And when I learnt how they weren't much more than a year old, I knew that it was probably going to be very unlikely that a pair of BB5SE's such as these would ever come on the secondhand market again.

It was a huge undertaking, quite literally, to pick them up and get them back to the highlands, but the effort was well worth it.

Though I do miss that speed and punch you mention, that you get from the 12's, and prefer them for lower level listening, and would of loved to of kept them, but that wasn't an option.

A trip to Hull to listen to the Dave Dac would be interesting and would be good to meet up too if it worked out like that. Dale was a pleasure to deal with and I'll definitely be using Fanthorpes again in the future.

All the best, Rob

Sounds like they went to a good home. I live in London but funnily enough I was in Hull to audition a turntable the day (or the day after) you dropped off your FACTs. We actually used them for my demo.

Dale said that you were reluctant to let them go. Didn't you set off for home in your van, only to turn around and go back to the shop to tell Dale not sell them until you were absolutely 100% completely sure about the BB5SE's? Glad they worked out for you.

I spent 7 years in Hull during the nineties at university where my hifi obsession/perversion began, so Fanthorpes have been my "local" dealer for over 20 years. Basically if they sell what I am looking for I buy it from them knowing I will get the best deal out there. If you do set up a Dave audition then let Dale know to contact me and I will come up if I can. Likewise I will do the same.

All the best and give the big girls a quick polish from me! GazziP

 

[Native_bon]

This discussion is not able who got the most expensive system. Looks like its been side tracked. *biggrin*

 

[Gazzip]

This discussion is not able who got the most expensive system. Looks like its been side tracked. *biggrin*

This discussion was complete balls. I am glad it got sidetracked. *biggrin*

 

[Native_bon]

This discussion is not able who got the most expensive system. Looks like its been side tracked. *biggrin*

This discussion was complete balls. I am glad it got sidetracked. *biggrin*

The AVI's do come to mind now & again. To some extent pride of ownership does creep in with expensive gear.

Like has been said few post back, every system cannot be the best at everything.

 

[busb]

..lets stop all the hair pulling. If I was to start from scratch, I'd probably go for an active system. From AVI? No on principal due to the smug evangelical posts from many owners.

I challenged anyone on PFM to to produce any evidence that proved DB ABX testing actually works. When I asked the same question here, all I got were snorts that of course ABX testing works. Anyhow, a couple of links were provided showing some positive results as well as the usual negative ones. Another link was about the idea that ABX tests over several months carried out at home would prove that the subjects would be able to hear if a sealed box that added 2.5% of THD could be heard or not in the comfort of your own home over extended periods. The results were fairly null but the same tests carried out formally with quick switching gave far more positive results.

ABX tests that include many positive results:

http://djcarlst.provide.net/abx_data.htm

ABX v long term tests:

http://audiosciencereview.com/forum/...186/#post-4178

I now find it fairly difficult to support the subjectivist view, However, I do think that ABX tests need to be conducted extremely carefully where deliberately introduced distortions (could be added noise, channel imbalance, THD, etc) are part of any testing to weed out those subjects who just radomise their answers that would give null results.

So why would any objectivist spend 1000s? Build quality, the reputation of the manufacturer, looks, functionality, matching existing gear, reliability etc, etc

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

We all think we want that (says me, generalising), but I highly suspect, even if such a system truly existed, and it was placed in a listening environment so perfect that it completely untainted one's perception of the system's sound, most people would find it utterly boring.

No. Just no.
Go in a serious studio during a mastering session. Nothing boring there.

 

[Carl_Manchester]

I'm a bit out of touch with the news. Who's suggested such a thing? And who's truth is this?

Sorry, going to waffle here for a bit.

I have been lurking here for a number of years so I thought I would post as its something that I have looked into recently because I am looking to do an upgrade on my home audio kit (which I have not touched since 1999) which is book-shelf B&W and Rotel based into a B&W 805D/Classe setup.

I am speculating but the OP I believe is refering to the Hifi blind-testing research done fairly recently (in Hifi terms) and which links into the research that was done on how your brain affects what you experience when you are presented with a high-end piece of consumer goods. In this case Hifi.

The research excludes speaker and cables, these are control items in the tests. You can google for the tests yourself.

I don't think that anyone would argue that spending more money on speakers (up to a point) gives you a better sound, the question is what value do the other components add. The research basically backs up the suspicion of 'not much'. This includes, DAC, Transport, AMP and Interconnects.

The other thing that happened in the past 5 years is that someone designed an external DAC and Headphone amp which sounds as good as something costing over 20 times the price (the O2).

Compounding these items above is a general mis-trust in the Hifi industry from consumers looking to drop a couple of grand extra into what they are buying (other than speakers), how can they be confident that the higher priced gear (excluding speakers) is better than the basic.

This mis-trust is manifesting itself via the following:

1. a refusal in the industry as a whole to accept blind testing as a defacto approach in cominbation with...

2. a reluctance to combine blind testing with signal differential testing that anyone with a laptop and a control room can reproduce

3. a continuation in the hifi industry for not only producing items of dubious value (i.e. Audiophile class USB cables) but selling them for ridiculous prices and then getting 'product of the year' awards in the press

4. Lack of equipment tear downs outside and within group tests which compare 'the guts inside the box'.

5. Please stop giving 4 or 5 star reviews for everything (home cinema choice is also guilty of this) and be more critical of the products. Put the cover price up if you need to.

One of the points that sticks in my mind from my research is the one about the $5 DAC chip. If this is the chip that is used in recording studios control desks the world over plus a few more times in the workflow of creating an album, how much of a quality difference do I think I can make with a $5000 Classe DAC.

Anyway ramble (nearly) over, I am sure your system sounds utterly epic even if it is the speakers doing the heavy lifting.

I suppose the answer to the OP is fairly straightforward as a forum jockey as it is easier typed than done. What happened to the Plasma display industry needs to happen to the Hifi industry, a refocus on lower priced products which innovate (we are seeing this in the DAC market and wireless speaker market already) and a re-focus by the press on technical analysis (have a look at the review sites that now provide this for LCD and OLED screens).

 

[Native_bon]

Hifi is a very personal thing, and so it should be. Its currently getting to a point where knowledge & experience putting a system together counts almost as much as how much you spend putting it together. Expensive does not guarantee you will get the sound you are looking for in particular... Putting a Hifi system together involves so many possibilities for things to go absolutely wrong.

Futher more, one man's meat..... I for one do not trust all measurements given of Hifi products & tend to use my ears to put together a system. Everyone will never agree on what sounds best, opinions to how good a system sounds will always differ. This leads to who or whom to take advice from. Advice is mostly given from the perspective of what sounds best to the adviser or reviewer.

In this type of confusion & so many snake oil products & marketing, I think people find it hard to even believe when a real good value for money product comes into market. Pride of ownership comes into play, leading to people making false claims of how good their system sounds. The list goes on... I only trust one thing..... my ears.