So, the truth is out.

[Frank Harvey]

We have almost eradicated 'premium branded' products from our shopping. (My wife still has a favourite brand of tea and I can't change from Garners Pickled Onions!)

Huge difference in tea bags. Most are naff - Yorkshire Tea every single time for me, regardless of cost. If I'm consuming it, I want to taste it and enjoy it!

 

[torikoos]

If, as suggested there is no or very little difference between cheap and expensive hifi.

Would I be right in thinking that a well put together cd,amp and speakers costing all in say £800 would perform as well as a system of say £5000

I'm going to assume that both systems (Whatever they are made up off) are well matched components that all work well together, and placed in ideal positions in the listening room, then that 5000 pound system will sound better. It won't be a 6 times improvement, but it will certainly be there. In addition the 5000 pound system has the potential to be nicer build, better finish, design etc. But a Dacia Sandero can drive you safely from Edinburgh to London and back, but so does a Rolls Royce Ghost. One costing significantly more than the other. I don't need to tell you that one will do it better than the other, but they'll both get you there. Same with music. If the 800 pound system get's your toes tapping, great! Listen to music, not the hifi!

How will the Rolls get you to you your destination "better" than the Dacia? If you have arrived at your destination then the objective has been achieved. Yes the Rolls will make you "feel special" and be more comfortable but that doesn't mean better

Well the car analogy is always a bit tricky, but I guess in this example the Rolls will get you there in a nicer more comfortable drive, that is also very well build, looks and makes you feel special. Indeed the 800 pound system will play your music, objective accomplished in that sense too.. but the 5000 pound system has the potential to bring that music to you just that little bit more 'special' , refined, detailed, or whatever the case may be...

 

[hg]

You pay what the marketing people convince you to pay.

But marketing can add substantial value for some people. To place no value on the marketing of luxury goods like hi-fi is quite wrong. Similarly people opt to buy branded pain killers because they consider them to be better than cheaper unbranded ones. How they feel after taking them is not necessarily independent of the marketing.

 

[Gazzip]

If, as suggested there is no or very little difference between cheap and expensive hifi.

Would I be right in thinking that a well put together cd,amp and speakers costing all in say £800 would perform as well as a system of say £5000

This is the kind of claptrap spouted by (usually thick) people who cannot afford "expensive" hifi. What they choose to ignore is that most people who own "expensive" hifi started off with a "cheap" setup and worked their way up from there, incrementally and over many years.

As the proud owner of a very, very "expensive" system I can categorically confirm that it in no way sounds the same as a setup costing £800, albeit that both play music.

 

[Gazzip]

I will add however from personal experience that when you get North of £40K the improvements have tailed off.

 

[ellisdj]

I will add however from personal experience that when you get North of £40K the improvements have tailed off.

You needed to look at room acoustics more then most likely

EDIT - also looking at your cabling - as you were interested in trying XLO out I am your man btw, I have loads

 

[Gaz37]

You pay what the marketing people convince you to pay.

But marketing can add substantial value for some people. To place no value on the marketing of luxury goods like hi-fi is quite wrong. Similarly people opt to buy branded pain killers because they consider them to be better than cheaper unbranded ones. How they feel after taking them is not necessarily independent of the marketing.

 

What was Barnum's famous quote about a fool and his money?

Anybody who thinks a Nurofen is better than generic Ibuprofen is quite simply a fool. It CANNOT make them feel better than the cheaper version fact.

I nearly wet myself laughing at the TV show where they remove the packaging from people's groceries for a week, the number of times people have mistakenly thought that their usual branded tea/coffee/cola/whatever had been swapped and described how vile and tasteless it was is hilarious.

I suspect the same would be true of many things including hifi. The Matrix blind test suggested the same, as did the famous coat hanger interconnect test.

 

[Gaz37]

If, as suggested there is no or very little difference between cheap and expensive hifi.

Would I be right in thinking that a well put together cd,amp and speakers costing all in say £800 would perform as well as a system of say £5000

This is the kind of claptrap spouted by (usually thick) people who cannot afford "expensive" hifi. What they choose to ignore is that most people who own "expensive" hifi started off with a "cheap" setup and worked their way up from there, incrementally and over many years.

As the proud owner of a very, very "expensive" system I can categorically confirm that it in no way sounds the same as a setup costing £800, albeit that both play music. 

Or did they simply "believe" they had worked their way up to a better sounding system?

 

[Gazzip]

I will add however from personal experience that when you get North of £40K the improvements have tailed off.

You needed to look at room acoustics more then most likely

EDIT - also looking at your cabling - as you were interested in trying XLO out I am your man btw, I have loads

On an upgrade shutdown at the mo I'm afraid. Just bought myself an Innuos Zenith music server. Sweet as...

 

[Frank Harvey]

I nearly wet myself laughing at the TV show where they remove the packaging from people's groceries for a week, the number of times people have mistakenly thought that their usual branded tea/coffee/cola/whatever had been swapped and described how vile and tasteless it was is hilarious.

I'll take a tea brand challenge any day of the week!

 

[tonky]

Out of interest what does your hifi consist of? - if you don't mind me asking.

Yorkshire tea - wins the taste test every time - the aroma when you open a new box of bags Mmmmmm!

cheers tonky

 

[thewinelake.]

For those that dismiss the notion that the quality of string on a tagged tea bag is important, I think you need to let them settle down. That's why I buy my teabags at least 6 months before I need to use them.

 

[ellisdj]

I will add however from personal experience that when you get North of £40K the improvements have tailed off.

You needed to look at room acoustics more then most likely

EDIT - also looking at your cabling - as you were interested in trying XLO out I am your man btw, I have loads

On an upgrade shutdown at the mo I'm afraid. Just bought myself an Innuos Zenith music server. Sweet as...

No problem - just bear it in mind if in the future you want to try them out, they are not easy to get, you had an unlucky experience of trying fakes out dont let that out you off

 

[ellisdj]

Also looking at the Innuos its an audio pc with an internal Linear Power Supply - thats good However

Thats gets you about 50% sound quality to what is available, I can make some suggesitons to you on that as well if your interested at any point - just give me a shout on AVF Private messaging

 

[Gazzip]

Out of interest what does your hifi consist of? - if you don't mind me asking.

Yorkshire tea - wins the taste test every time - the aroma when you open a new box of bags Mmmmmm!

cheers tonky

Sources: Innuos Zenith Server/Player; Esoteric X03SE CD player; Esoteric D-07X DAC; Project Xtension TT with Cadenza Black

​Amplification: ASR Emitter II Exclusive Blue; Avid Pulsus phono stage; Ortofon ST-80SE Step up transformer

Speakers: PMC FACT 12

Cables & Stuff: Atlas Mavros; Audiophilebase Starbase support system

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

[/quote]Yorkshire Tea every single time for me[/quote]
From t' famous tea plantation s of Upper Wensleydale, I hope....

 

[tonky]

Out of interest what does your hifi consist of? - if you don't mind me asking.

Yorkshire tea - wins the taste test every time - the aroma when you open a new box of bags Mmmmmm!

cheers tonky

Sources: Innuos Zenith Server/Player; Esoteric X03SE CD player; Esoteric D-07X DAC; Project Xtension TT with Cadenza Black

​Amplification: ASR Emitter II Exclusive Blue; Avid Pulsus phono stage; Ortofon ST-80SE Step up transformer

Speakers: PMC FACT 12

Cables & Stuff: Atlas Mavros; Audiophilebase Starbase support system

thanks - bet it sounds superb! - tonky

 

[Gazzip]

Also looking at the Innuos its an audio pc with an internal Linear Power Supply - thats good However

Thats gets you about 50% sound quality to what is available, I can make some suggesitons to you on that as well if your interested at any point - just give me a shout on AVF Private messaging

Thanks ellisdj. When the ban is lifted I will be in touch. Just no more boxes as I am completely out of space! Wish I knew how to post a photo of my system, you would laugh your head off!

 

[lindsayt]

Sources: Innuos Zenith Server/Player; Esoteric X03SE CD player; Esoteric D-07X DAC; Project Xtension TT with Cadenza Black

​Amplification: ASR Emitter II Exclusive Blue; Avid Pulsus phono stage; Ortofon ST-80SE Step up transformer

Speakers: PMC FACT 12

Cables & Stuff: Atlas Mavros; Audiophilebase Starbase support system

OK, hands up everyone that thinks they can come up with a system that will sound better than Gazzips for £800.

My hand is up (CD's only. To beat his analogue rig I think I'd need £1000). I guess there will be owners of 2nd AVI DM9's or 10's or with new DM5's will also put their hands up.

Of, course, what we think and what is the actual truth may be 2 different things...

 

[steve_1979]

 

[Gazzip]

Sources: Innuos Zenith Server/Player; Esoteric X03SE CD player; Esoteric D-07X DAC; Project Xtension TT with Cadenza Black

​Amplification: ASR Emitter II Exclusive Blue; Avid Pulsus phono stage; Ortofon ST-80SE Step up transformer

Speakers: PMC FACT 12

Cables & Stuff: Atlas Mavros; Audiophilebase Starbase support system

OK, hands up everyone that thinks they can come up with a system that will sound better than Gazzips for £800.

My hand is up (CD's only. To beat his analogue rig I think I'd need £1000). I guess there will be owners of 2nd AVI DM9's or 10's or with new DM5's will also put their hands up.

Of, course, what we think and what is the actual truth may be 2 different things...

Jesus, really?! It's like you think I started at this price point and have no reference-point to establish what a £1000 system actually sounds like.

You also have no idea what my system sounds like so this exercise is pointless.

 

[ellisdj]

Also looking at the Innuos its an audio pc with an internal Linear Power Supply - thats good However

Thats gets you about 50% sound quality to what is available, I can make some suggesitons to you on that as well if your interested at any point - just give me a shout on AVF Private messaging 

Thanks ellisdj. When the ban is lifted I will be in touch. Just no more boxes as I am completely out of space! Wish I knew how to post a photo of my system, you would laugh your head off!

Your not Nigel A on AVF by any chance are you?

 

[Gazzip]

Also looking at the Innuos its an audio pc with an internal Linear Power Supply - thats good However

Thats gets you about 50% sound quality to what is available, I can make some suggesitons to you on that as well if your interested at any point - just give me a shout on AVF Private messaging

Thanks ellisdj. When the ban is lifted I will be in touch. Just no more boxes as I am completely out of space! Wish I knew how to post a photo of my system, you would laugh your head off!

Your not Nigel A on AVF by any chance are you?

Nope! Not me!

 

[Frank Harvey]

On an upgrade shutdown at the mo I'm afraid. Just bought myself an Innuos Zenith music server. Sweet as...

Tis rather good isn't it...

 

[Gaz37]

Sources: Innuos Zenith Server/Player; Esoteric X03SE CD player; Esoteric D-07X DAC; Project Xtension TT with Cadenza Black

​Amplification: ASR Emitter II Exclusive Blue; Avid Pulsus phono stage; Ortofon ST-80SE Step up transformer

Speakers: PMC FACT 12

Cables & Stuff: Atlas Mavros; Audiophilebase Starbase support system

OK, hands up everyone that thinks they can come up with a system that will sound better than Gazzips for £800.

My hand is up (CD's only. To beat his analogue rig I think I'd need £1000). I guess there will be owners of 2nd AVI DM9's or 10's or with new DM5's will also put their hands up.

 

Of, course, what we think and what is the actual truth may be 2 different things...

I'm quite confident that I could put together system for £800 that, in a true blind test, at least 50% of 20 enthusiast listeners would find as good or better than Gazzip's.

In fact I'm so confident I'd bet my system against his on it.