nopiano said:
i know that, in common with a number of other speaker manufacturers, PMC describe their speakers as easy to drive.
If by that you mean that they will go reasonably loud without obvious distortion, then you are right.
Personally I think the best points of PMC speakers are there dynamic capabilities and lack of compression, only really observable with amplifiers with a decent output capability.
They recomment Bryston or their own (very inexpensive) 200 watt monoblocks for a reason.
davedotco said:
Most half decent speakers would be greatly improved with the addition of some 200 W Bryston Monos, but if it was a condition of sale, they wouldn't sell many pairs.
I agree though, that most people never get to hear just how good their speakers are capable of sounding.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
[/quote]
I agree though, that most people never get to hear just how good their speakers are capable of sounding.
[/quote]
There is a flipside to this, though.
Other well-respected members have heard a Rega Mira on 7k speakers and it (apparently) sounded a revelation.
By the same token, I dem'd the old Arcam A65+ with PMC GB1s - amazing.
I agree though, that most people never get to hear just how good their speakers are capable of sounding.
[/quote]
There is a flipside to this, though.
Other well-respected members have heard a Rega Mira on 7k speakers and it (apparently) sounded a revelation.
By the same token, I dem'd the old Arcam A65+ with PMC GB1s - amazing.
Hmmm, slim speakers you say. Perhaps they've been on a Hi-Fibre diet................................
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
Have you considered Adam Audio Artist 6? Very slim, black or white finish and very good sounding. Problem is they are an active desing so will not suite if you are not considering feeding speakers from a pre-amp.
Not sure if you have looked at Neat Acoustics, we have a rather nice pair of cherry Motive 1's as a second hand pair, if you are looking to purchase used speakers?
Hello, The pmc 23 or 24 are going a very "neutral" way of sound restitution. There are not so much speakers of this kind out there. If you want an "upgrade", try the PMC fact8, I tried out on a 80w exposure chain, and it's going absolutely well. It's although an improvement in regard of the 23's.
An alternative could be a PSI A-215M, that are active speakers, but they are although set up neutral and are slim.
If you really want "an upgrade" from the 23's, AND a neutral AND low wattage compliant, the choices are thin.
And what is your room saying to your plan ? Because you could buy and set up a killer 23 or Fact8 in your room, if you didn't prepare it to a minimum level, it will be difficult/impossible to hear an improvement to an entry level speaker. Just saying...
An alternative could be a PSI A-215M, that are active speakers, but they are although set up neutral and are slim.
If you really want "an upgrade" from the 23's, AND a neutral AND low wattage compliant, the choices are thin.
And what is your room saying to your plan ? Because you could buy and set up a killer 23 or Fact8 in your room, if you didn't prepare it to a minimum level, it will be difficult/impossible to hear an improvement to an entry level speaker. Just saying...
audioaffair said:
How many times is this company going to be allowed to flout House Rules? Or does it have a special arrangement to flog its secondhand offers and deals
?CnoEvil said:
The monoblock power amps I was refering to are PMC's own model. These are Hypex based Class D designs and on the couple of occasions I have heard them sound effortless and transparent, if you choose to 'voice' your system to your taste it needs to be done elsewhere.
These amplifiers are built into a bling free case and cost under £1300 a pair, given that many modern systems do not need a full function integrated amplifier they are something of a steal for anyone considering PMC, Spendor or Harbeth type speakers.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
davedotco said:CnoEvil said:
The monoblock power amps I was refering to are PMC's own model. These are Hypex based Class D designs and on the couple of occasions I have heard them sound effortless and transparent, if you choose to 'voice' your system to your taste it needs to be done elsewhere.
These amplifiers are built into a bling free case and cost under £1300 a pair, given that many modern systems do not need a full function integrated amplifier they are something of a steal for anyone considering PMC, Spendor or Harbeth type speakers.
That seems poor (perceived) VFM, given the average hi-fi buff require more than an 'on/off' switch. For £650 per box you're comparing to Creek Evo2 retail money, or for nearly £1300 for the two, there's my Leema for instance.
So unless you're a minimalist preacher it's easy to see why these haven't caught on....
To be honest PP I was thinking of computer and streaming based solutions where all the functionality is provided elsewhere.
Similarly a Sonos Connect just needs added power as do many of the 'new' dac/preamps and 'all in one' solutions (Unitiqute for example) that are becoming so common, if you are using several souces in the 'conventional' manner, then no, not a great solution.
There are few amplifiers at anywhere near this price that offer the sort of power available from the PMCs, if your speakers respond well to the extra headroom then I suggest they are very good value indeed.
Similarly a Sonos Connect just needs added power as do many of the 'new' dac/preamps and 'all in one' solutions (Unitiqute for example) that are becoming so common, if you are using several souces in the 'conventional' manner, then no, not a great solution.
There are few amplifiers at anywhere near this price that offer the sort of power available from the PMCs, if your speakers respond well to the extra headroom then I suggest they are very good value indeed.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
davedotco said:
Understandable, but I'm trying to fathom where these little boxes come within the grand scheme of things: Would they be an alternative to actives? if so then PMC already have a range of active speakers. They look like a very niche product.
plastic penguin said:
They are nothing to do with 'actives', just power amps for normal passive speakers that need a bit of power, with a level control for matching to a pre-amp, streamer etc. Really they are just meant to be buried in a cupboard, literally as a 'black box' with gain, no fancy box or machined from solid front panel, just performance.
Take for example, a Sonos Connect, a Unitiqute, a Dacmagic +, a M-Dac, all the functionality you need so there is no need duplicating all the switching or volume control functions by buying an integrated, just take the 'pre' outs from any of the above and feed it to the PMCs, set the level controls for a good volume match and forget about them. They are cool running, efficient and consume little power when not in use, no need to even bother switching them off.
All in control, even the playback volume, is done from the dac/streamer, simple.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
I know they aren't active speakers and I do 'get' the "Hide 'n' Play" concept but I'm trying to guess who would go "Mmm, must have those boxes", as opposed to going, let's say, to AVI actives which negates the need for an external preamp, assuming you're just streaming or going the digital route.
Nearly £1300 for the two and add a M-Dac and speakers and you're starting to talk serious money. Have to say I'm sure you're right they do sound good but for the most part - me included - outright sonic prowess, to a lesser extent, is irrelevent. I suppose, yet again, and like all set-ups, it's a compromise.
Nearly £1300 for the two and add a M-Dac and speakers and you're starting to talk serious money. Have to say I'm sure you're right they do sound good but for the most part - me included - outright sonic prowess, to a lesser extent, is irrelevent. I suppose, yet again, and like all set-ups, it's a compromise.
plastic penguin said:
It's just the way I see things.
I actually love the 'Hide 'n Play' concept as you put it, that really works for me. If, for whatever reason, you do not like the AVI style active route, than the PMCs give you sufficient power to open up your choice to virtually any speaker, even those as notoriously power dependent such as the smaller Harbeths, Spendors and ATCs.
Again, I accept that if you want a conventional system with separate sources, a mix of analogue and digital inputs etc, then this may not be the way to go but in some situations I see it as a very elegant solution. The amps, a V-dac and Sonos Connect could all be hidden out of the way with just a pair of speakers on show and everything controlled from a tablet.
My kind of system...... :cheers:
CnoEvil said:davedotco said:
Apologies.
I'm only half awake at that hour in the morning.
S'okay........
If I ever get my hands on a pair to try at home I would love to try them with a nice valve pre, just to see if they are really as transparent as they seem in the studio.
As I have said before, not being able to try this sort of thing is the one thing I miss from my days as a dealer.......
I spoke to PMC and yes its 100w min on the 24's but they said it could go lower but be careful of distortion..doesn't help really
Electro
Well-known member
Electro said:
It surprises me too as PMC speakers are recommended with Naim amps and a lot are 80w..I think if its got a high current it should be all right. When I said to PMC that my amp is 80w he said that should be fine *confused* but the tech guy at PMC said fine so it should be fine
mini66 said:Electro said:
It surprises me too as PMC speakers are recommended with Naim amps and a lot are 80w..I think if its got a high current it should be all right. When I said to PMC that my amp is 80w he said that should be fine *confused* but the tech guy at PMC said fine so it should be fine
I feel there is a desire from loudspeaker manufacturers to say that their speakers are easy to drive, partly due to the current enphasis on speakers and partly not to put off prospective buyers with modestly powered amplifiers.
With some manufacturers this is quite clearly nonsense but PMC have a point, sort of. Their speakers are typically fairly sensitive and a nominal 8 ohm load and it is quite true that quite modest amplifiers can get them to go quite loud without obvious distortion.
But to me this is nowhere near enough, one of the big pluses for these speakers is their near effortless dynamics, something that needs some fairly serious power. The lack of compression that can be achieved in this way can be quite breathtaking, a long way from what I hear in most hi-fi systems.
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