Sight and Sound UK

[Anonymous]

My reason for ordering a Graham Slee Novo headphone amplifier online was because I couldn't find any stores within 30 or so miles of where I live in East Sussex that had it in stock. It was a relatively inexpensive purchase in audio terms, top rated in What Hi-Fi? Awards for the category with good online user feedback supporting that and not a piece of kit that would need a demo in my view. I still would have bought from a shop if I could have though, mainly due to impatience, despite the inconvenience of having a 60 mile round trip to go there.

Having tried Sevenoaks Sound and Vision (3 stores) and Richer Sounds (2 stores) I placed an order online through Sight and Sound UK on 3rd January, received my letter about Sight and Sound (Malenky.Co Limited) going into Creditors Voluntary Liquidation on 27th January and have now reverted back to considering purchasing through a shop.

I completely agree with points made about retailers changing their business model and holding more stock. Near me (within 30 miles if you can call that near!) there are 3 Sevenoaks stores (Sevenoaks, Tunbridge Wells and Brighton) and 2 Richer Sounds (Brighton and Tunbridge Wells). Not small places and of course includes Sevenoaks' home town main showpiece store. No stock in any and distinct impression they have never had any stock in of this product.

I appreciate stores cannot have stock of everything due to the enormity of choice but to me it is obvious business sense to hold stock of What Hi-Fi? 2011 Award Winning products, especially when they advertise so prominently on the back of the Awards, but apparently this is not obvious to them.

They do not know how long it will take to order in and they will have to call the supplier on Monday to find out.

I therefore have 2 choices as I sit frustrated over the weekend thinking it would (still!) be nice to have a good quality headphone amp to listen through.

I can:

1. Be impatient again and purchase online (not withstanding the fact I may never recover my money from Sight and Sound or the credit card company). This is still tempting because I'm peeved off with stores not having any in.

2. Be patient (unreasonably so I think) for once and deal with a store where I can physically pay for and take away the product - eventually

This is all very small beer in the great scheme of things but I love my music and I'm expecting this product will enhance my enjoyment so it matters to me - weekends to relax in are few and far between. I hope this product lives up to the What Hi-Fi? review boys because it's a long hard fought and potentially doubly expensive battle getting hold of one!

(If I'm honest on the whole shop vs web debate I'm also worried that by going into a store, having read these forums recently, means that it wont be the only thing I leave that store with and my girlfriend was probably expecting we would go on holiday!!!!)

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

My reason for ordering a Graham Slee Novo headphone amplifier online was because I couldn't find any stores within 30 or so miles of where I live in East Sussex that had it in stock. It was a relatively inexpensive purchase in audio terms, top rated in What Hi-Fi? Awards for the category with good online user feedback supporting that and not a piece of kit that would need a demo in my view. I still would have bought from a shop if I could have though, mainly due to impatience, despite the inconvenience of having a 60 mile round trip to go there.

Having tried Sevenoaks Sound and Vision (3 stores) and Richer Sounds (2 stores) I placed an order online through Sight and Sound UK on 3rd January, received my letter about Sight and Sound (Malenky.Co Limited) going into Creditors Voluntary Liquidation on 27th January and have now reverted back to considering purchasing through a shop.

I completely agree with points made about retailers changing their business model and holding more stock. Near me (within 30 miles if you can call that near!) there are 3 Sevenoaks stores (Sevenoaks, Tunbridge Wells and Brighton) and 2 Richer Sounds (Brighton and Tunbridge Wells). Not small places and of course includes Sevenoaks' home town main showpiece store. No stock in any and distinct impression they have never had any stock in of this product.

I appreciate stores cannot have stock of everything due to the enormity of choice but to me it is obvious business sense to hold stock of What Hi-Fi? 2011 Award Winning products, especially when they advertise so prominently on the back of the Awards, but apparently this is not obvious to them.

They do not know how long it will take to order in and they will have to call the supplier on Monday to find out.

I therefore have 2 choices as I sit frustrated over the weekend thinking it would (still!) be nice to have a good quality headphone amp to listen through.

I can:

1. Be impatient again and purchase online (not withstanding the fact I may never recover my money from Sight and Sound or the credit card company). This is still tempting because I'm peeved off with stores not having any in.

2. Be patient (unreasonably so I think) for once and deal with a store where I can physically pay for and take away the product - eventually

This is all very small beer in the great scheme of things but I love my music and I'm expecting this product will enhance my enjoyment so it matters to me - weekends to relax in are few and far between. I hope this product lives up to the What Hi-Fi? review boys because it's a long hard fought and potentially doubly expensive battle getting hold of one!

(If I'm honest on the whole shop vs web debate I'm also worried that by going into a store, having read these forums recently, means that it wont be the only thing I leave that store with and my girlfriend was probably expecting we would go on holiday!!!!)

Had you considered that the stock issue may be with Graham Slee or indeed their distributor?

As an aside it makes no sense to me to stock all of the What Hi-Fi winners becuase I do not agree with all the choices.

 

[Anonymous]

Totally fair point, I really am not knocking Sevenoaks, Richer Sounds or any retailers and I do accept that I (many of us?) have unfair expectations of stores (web and physical) in a press button-expect response and willing to pay the cash so want the product kind of age. Cash flow is of course key for all businesses (Sight and Sound a painful reminder of this) and businesses have to be selective about what is invested into stock holdings.

I still think though that putting this example to one side there is still a wider issue here if stores are going to continue to fend off competition from internet based business and thrive and this is demonstrated by other experiences I have had with lack of stock and comments from others about this.

I wouldn't want or expect you to always agree with the What Hi-Fi? Awards choices but many people will take their recommendation and ultimately, to be the most successful, stores should surely expect a demand from their customers for award winning products, whoever it is who bestows the accolade, but especially when it is such a prominent and well respected recommendation. If customers then decide to go with your own recommendation that's great and why we all, I'm sure, value so highly having good quality physical Hi-Fi retail outlets - long may you all be there for us and I for one will support them when I make purchases as long as the store can fulfill my requirement within a reasonable time frame.

 

[SteveR750]

Had you considered that the stock issue may be with Graham Slee or indeed their distributor?

As an aside it makes no sense to me to stock all of the What Hi-Fi winners becuase I do not agree with all the choices.

If it were my business, I'd stock what people wanted to listen to / buy and not what I thought they wanted to buy. Sorry, but this is exactly why it needs to change, a retailer has no more a valid opinion than I do so why limit the choices? Stock costs money for sure, and that of course is the real limiting factor with the current shop floor model. I'm pretty sure that I'd generate more turnover in a year than any established retailer per hour spent with a cutsomer (which is I suppose a more meaningful easure of footfall in this kind of product) using a more consumer friendly choice and convenience approach.

 

[CnoEvil]

Had you considered that the stock issue may be with Graham Slee or indeed their distributor?

As an aside it makes no sense to me to stock all of the What Hi-Fi winners becuase I do not agree with all the choices.

If it were my business, I'd stock what people wanted to listen to / buy and not what I thought they wanted to buy. Sorry, but this is exactly why it needs to change, a retailer has no more a valid opinion than I do so why limit the choices? Stock costs money for sure, and that of course is the real limiting factor with the current shop floor model. I'm pretty sure that I'd generate more turnover in a year than any established retailer per hour spent with a cutsomer (which is I suppose a more meaningful easure of footfall in this kind of product) using a more consumer friendly choice and convenience approach.

Playing devils advocate for a minute, do you keep what they "think" they want to hear, or do you stock what they "should" hear, because you believe it's better.

I would say that quite a few customers have relatively limited experience of what's actually out there.

 

[SteveR750]

I think there are two levels - you would have to have budget and mid 5 star gear fopr immediate demos; and maybe the WHF award winners are as good a place to start, after all that is probably the best known reference, and as a sector probably accounts for 70 - 80% of sales and . You probably wouldn't hold stock of more esoteric kit, and would have to arrange a demo by special request, but this is where the manufacturers have to make a change to support this kind of retail model.

 

[Anonymous]

What surprised me is that in my area, around East Sussex/Kent, a very well known Hi-Fi store with outlets nationwide, which has a specific section on their website for What Hi-Fi? award winners and sells headphone amps, had seemingly never heard of the Graham Slee Novo and had never stocked it, let alone have any stock of it when I tried to buy one from them.

My point is not really about the Novo, which is just my own particular beef at the moment, but that (responding to the point from TheHomeCinemaCentre) it would be good business sense to expect demand for products that win the What Hi-Fi award and stock them accordingly, or at least be aware of the award winners so that if they prefer to recommend alternatives and only stock those they are doing so based on objective personal opinion and not stock limitation policies that may exist.

I agree with SteveR750's earlier post about demos that there is an apparent necessity, or at least an opportunity, for businesses with shop-floors to consider a different approach and try to improve convenience, variety of product lines and stock levels in order to be successful when competing with internet based retailers. I'm only recently starting to get back into spending on music equipment but have spent money buying online when in every case I wanted to buy from a shop if they had the item in stock. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done this when it wouldn't be their preference.

I also agree with you though CnoEvil - I want a good store where I can go in order to challenge what I read in industry and user reviews on the web and have somebody who can give me their opinion on a better alternative. However, to do this they need to stock the award winners which are likely to generate the most popularity (and as SteveR750 says will likely be the reference to compare against) as well as the alternative in order for me to appreciate the key value the shop model should provide its customers and continue wanting to buy from shops instead of buying online. I could then make my choice based on experiencing both the "popular" product at the time and the others I wasn't aware of. It is particularly the case that award winning products should be stocked by shops because if you are ever going to buy online from their competitors without seeing and listening to the product you would have to have a high level of confidence in its quality and so are most likely to do so with award winning products. I accept you're unlikely to do this for expensive purchases but there is still an issue here because I'm sure it's a lot of revenue involved in the lower value, high turnover products such as headphones, cables and accessories and low to mid level separates equipment even, which people will buy online based on recommendation alone because they get impatient with shops.

In fairness I haven't been into buying separates and Hi-Fi equipment for some time so my experience of finding that items are not stocked is limited to 3 occasions but all 3 of which were recently and they were all different 2011 award winning products and it was the case on every occasion that it was hard work trying to buy from a shop.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Had you considered that the stock issue may be with Graham Slee or indeed their distributor?

As an aside it makes no sense to me to stock all of the What Hi-Fi winners becuase I do not agree with all the choices.

If it were my business, I'd stock what people wanted to listen to / buy and not what I thought they wanted to buy.

So how do you know what people want to listen to or buy - because it is featured in What Hi-FI? Fortunately the scale of Hi-Fi retail does actually extend beyond what is written in the magazine. There are stores that cater just for these products dotted all aorund the country and hardly consider / stock lowly four star products.

I run an independent store and by the very definition sell what I feel is the best suited to my customers based on my experience. This is how it normally works. If all sectors just sold what was the most popular / well reviewed then all we would have is trashy blockbusters in our cinema and re-hashed sounds in the album charts....

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Had you considered that the stock issue may be with Graham Slee or indeed their distributor?

As an aside it makes no sense to me to stock all of the What Hi-Fi winners becuase I do not agree with all the choices.

I'm pretty sure that I'd generate more turnover in a year than any established retailer per hour spent with a cutsomer (which is I suppose a more meaningful easure of footfall in this kind of product) using a more consumer friendly choice and convenience approach.

Oh the arrogance. A well paid job awaits you in Edinburgh if you can back up your claims. Turnover isn't profit by the way - plenty of failed shops to show that.

 

[the record spot]

Well said that man... :cheers:

As a quick glance round these forum threads will quickly demonstrate, a passing alien looking to buy some stuff would think he could choose from Marantz MCR-603, B&W 685, Monitor Audio BX5/BX2/RX6, Arcam Alpha 10 (if he's willing to buy used of course), a Squeezebox, ummm...oh yes, Marantz PM/CD6004, Chord Silverscreen...is that it? Maybe a couple more, but that's it.

Dire!

I jest (a little) but the point is Nick's on the money; when I was shopping for new speakers I went in to his shop without WHF (or anyone else's) awards in mind. I looked at the HCC's standmount speaker page, shotlisted about four that fitted the spec and went in. Walked out with a pair of speakers I'd originally discounted and ended up with a better stereo for it.

Hifi is full of the most stunted thinking at times it beggars belief. How often do you see other names listed in here? Other brands that are arguably as good or better than what's usually trotted out.

I think Nick knows his trade well enough. The shop has an impressive range and is a nice place to visit. The product line changes frequently too so there's always something new in, unlike other places where it's pratically static. Think I know what I prefer.

 

[John Duncan]

As a quick glance round these forum threads will quickly demonstrate, a passing alien looking to buy some stuff would think he could choose from Marantz MCR-603, B&W 685, Monitor Audio BX5/BX2/RX6, Arcam Alpha 10 (if he's willing to buy used of course), a Squeezebox, ummm...oh yes, Marantz PM/CD6004, Chord Silverscreen...is that it? Maybe a couple more, but that's it.

Dire!

That's about nine more products than some other forums I could mention. It's also nonsense, as your own Onkyo thread proves.

 

[moon]

Well said that man... :cheers:

As a quick glance round these forum threads will quickly demonstrate, a passing alien looking to buy some stuff would think he could choose from Marantz MCR-603, B&W 685, Monitor Audio BX5/BX2/RX6, Arcam Alpha 10 (if he's willing to buy used of course), a Squeezebox, ummm...oh yes, Marantz PM/CD6004, Chord Silverscreen...is that it? Maybe a couple more, but that's it.

Dire!

I jest (a little) but the point is Nick's on the money; when I was shopping for new speakers I went in to his shop without WHF (or anyone else's) awards in mind. I looked at the HCC's standmount speaker page, shotlisted about four that fitted the spec and went in. Walked out with a pair of speakers I'd originally discounted and ended up with a better stereo for it.

Hifi is full of the most stunted thinking at times it beggars belief. How often do you see other names listed in here? Other brands that are arguably as good or better than what's usually trotted out.

I think Nick knows his trade well enough. The shop has an impressive range and is a nice place to visit. The product line changes frequently too so there's always something new in, unlike other places where it's pratically static. Think I know what I prefer.

I kinda of see where your coming form RS, but,

I decided this time when I had the money to audition everything What HIFI said were the best. As you can see from my sig. Yes I have the BX2's and The 6004. Does this make me generic and boring. No. I went a long with an open mind and guess what ? in this instance they were so right it's untrue. My friend who is a massive music lover did the same a few years ago. He looked at the current What Hifi mag and chose the the best buy at the time. ( NAD Amp, dull, Cambridge Audio CD player, dull, and Monitor Audio BR2 dull dull dull, mentioned. so many times on forums it's boring), HOWEVER...........It sounds the business, and he didn't even bother auditioning, couldn't be bothered, he wanted the ' proffesionals to make the choise for him. It worked, and all very popular brands.

I know their is equally good kit out there, but it doesn't make the more popular brands any less important. Yes their is heavy investment in marketing and ads for these brands.But they are still excellent.

I am happy in this instance to be one of the crowd. Ironically the Onkyo 8050 has been mentioned so many times in the last few months, it, could now be classed as one of those boring, dull options. But as you know, this just is not the case..........

 

[the record spot]

The point isn't that the Onkyo is mentioned a lot just now. It's the over-reliance on often JUST the WHF award winners or if such and such has 5 stars. Whether someone buys blind on the back of the mag's selection is neither here nor there. That's not the point I was making. It's that other products are out there, shock, gasp, but you wouldn't know it by many of the responses in here sometimes.

With that in mind, the Onkyo suddenly becomes more 'case in point' than anything else.

 

[John Duncan]

In the last 12 hours, the following products have been discussed and/or recommended:

Apple TV (v1)
Dali Zensor 5
Exposure 1010
ThatCable
Denon DNP-720AE
Audio Technica ATH-M50
Nothing at all
Tannoy Mercury v4
Cheese
Restek
QED XT-400
Dynaudio
Spendor
Proac
Meridian

I think this forum is a broad church, especially when it comes to dairy products...

 

[moon]

In the last 12 hours, the following products have been discussed and/or recommended:

Apple TV (v1)
Dali Zensor 5
Exposure 1010
ThatCable
Denon DNP-720AE
Audio Technica ATH-M50
Nothing at all
Tannoy Mercury v4
Cheese
Restek
QED XT-400
Dynaudio
Spendor
Proac
Meridian

I think this forum is a broad church, especially when it comes to dairy products...

Where is the 6004, I feel afraid to recommend it now.

 

[John Duncan]

I strongly recommend the CD6004* and PM6004, especially at it's bargain price in Richers just now.

*there it is

I also strongly recommend the Cambridge 650 pair at the same prices, just depends on which you like the look of.

I am not keeping this list up to date...

 

[Frank Harvey]

In the last 12 hours, the following products have been discussed and/or recommended:

Apple TV (v1)
Dali Zensor 5
Exposure 1010
ThatCable
Denon DNP-720AE
Audio Technica ATH-M50
Nothing at all
Tannoy Mercury v4
Cheese
Restek
QED XT-400
Dynaudio
Spendor
Proac
Meridian

I think this forum is a broad church, especially when it comes to dairy products...

Looks like I'm slacking... :rofl:

 

[Helmut80]

on a slightly related note.

can dealers pick and choose what products they sell or will they have to take on the entire line of any given brand?

 

[John Duncan]

Looks like I'm slacking... :rofl:

I'm sure KEF are in there *somewhere* David, I just got bored...

 

[matthewpiano]

What I expect from the WHFS&V Awards is relatively mainstream recommendations that perform to a high standard for their price and will suit a broad base of users, and I believe the magazine gets this right. What the Awards aren't going to give you are those products which might excel in particular areas and therefore appeal to more of a niche audience. The awards are very influential in the wider market and there are plenty of dealers out there catering for the majority of the award winning products and for the consumers who will go purely off the recommendations of the magazine and end up with a perfectly good all-round set-up.

There is, however, space for retailers like Nick who want to provide more of a service to their customers by bringing less mainstream options to attention through comparative demonstration and providing advice based on getting to know the customer's own particular needs. This is the definition of a specialist as far as I'm concerned. The mainstream options might well be the best for a customer at a particular price point but, for others, less talked about makes and models might be even better. It is a good dealer's job to help the customer navigate this in my opinion.

 

[the record spot]

Sorry (not that I am) for expressing a view, but I think Nick made a valid point earlier. You can list the Buying Guide if you like JD, but maybe get the counts for each over a lengthier term. The point might bear out then.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It's been a very interesting thread. Sometimes the more interesting ones are those that have evolved into something almost entirely different as far as subject matter is concerned. I was going to stay out of this for safetly reasons, but I've double checked it - I think I'm safe

Another one bites the dust,such a shame when will it end.

Not this year. I think there will be plenty more before this year is out as I doubt things are going to vastly improve for a while.

The manufacturers need to make sure they don't give preferential prices to the amazons of the world; eventually *blind listening* buyers will be forced to change their buying patterns after unhappy experiences (check out these forums for enough evidence), and then selling on at huge losses.

This is a good point Steve, and other than the numerous ways in which this industry is being destroyed by the dealers themselves, this is one of the main issues in the future. Personally, I disagree with dealers selling manufacturers products on Amazon. Why? Because Amazon are clever. By allowing dealers to sell products they don't keep on their website, they can see what is selling and what is not. Whatever is selling, they can then approach that manufacturer and apply for an account, with the promise of huge sales, and bigger orders than most independent dealers can manage. Any manufacturer having a £20k or £50k cheque waved in their face is going to seriously think about it. Once those manufacturers see more products being sold, smaller shipping costs due to delivering in bulk, and the reps see their bonus increase, why do they need 'the little man'? Close them down and stick with the big buyers. This is another area that the industry is killing itself. And before anyone points it out, yes, we do sell on Amazon. In F1, you can choose to go all out and keep up with the front runners, or you can lounge about at the back, like so many other failed F1 teams.

People need to decide how they want to buy their hi-fi. In America, almost everything budget/mid priced can be bought at K-Marts and superstores, and are available mail order. Other than that, there's only really (stupidly) high end boutiques - there's nothing inbetween like ourselves. Maybe we're going that way, who knows, but we are finding that higher end is becoming more popular, and because of the wealth of it's buyers, is a relatively stable market.

You might even dispense with a glitzy showroom, find a place to store gear in a controlled temp/humidity whilst pre-burning in the kit (that the manufacturers cant be bothered to do)

Secure, temperature controlled storage would be quite expensive, and you'd need to be selling large numbers regularly in order to make that work. As for running in, this would add to the rrp as it would take up time. What would be the logistics for a manufacturer like NAD, Denon or Marantz running every piece of equipment in? I wouldn't even like to guess. And as for smaller manufacturers, lead times of a week to two weeks for special order speaker finishes would be extended vastly while they run in. I wonder what ATC would think of this?!

I completely agree with points made about retailers changing their business model and holding more stock. Near me (within 30 miles if you can call that near!) there are 3 Sevenoaks stores (Sevenoaks, Tunbridge Wells and Brighton) and 2 Richer Sounds (Brighton and Tunbridge Wells). Not small places and of course includes Sevenoaks' home town main showpiece store. No stock in any and distinct impression they have never had any stock in of this product.

I was discussing this in store on Saturday with a colleague (as well as many other points made by this thread), and we talked about manufacturers looking at what stores they have and where they are, and what stock is held by them. I would say 30 miles isn't a particularly large area in the grand scheme of things, but why do Sevenoaks need 3 within that small area? Firstly, you're just inviting your own stores to compete with each other, and secondly, that's a lot of dosh invested. One store could quite easily cater for that area, with more products on dem, better choice of backup stock, and less disgruntled customers. Some manufacturers have a stupid amount of dealers in relatively small areas, and it's just not needed.

But I do find it weird that non of those stores had stock of the item. We've learned that with certain products and budget stuff, if it's not in stock, customers are going to walk out and buy elsewhere, or even online.

I appreciate stores cannot have stock of everything due to the enormity of choice but to me it is obvious business sense to hold stock of What Hi-Fi? 2011 Award Winning products, especially when they advertise so prominently on the back of the Awards, but apparently this is not obvious to them.

Agreed. Any dealer making a big thing out of WHF's award winners should have plentiful stock. There are some products we traditionally keep to order, but stuff like Denon DM38's, Marantz 6004 amps and CD players etc, they have to be in stock, no two ways about it. As long as stock is plentiful at the manufacturer, of course.

If it were my business, I'd stock what people wanted to listen to / buy and not what I thought they wanted to buy. Sorry, but this is exactly why it needs to change, a retailer has no more a valid opinion than I do so why limit the choices?

I'm not disagreeing with Nick here, as I know exactly where he's coming from, but I agree that the customer's ear and opinion is just as valid as the dealer's. It's not the dealer who is buying the kit to take home to enjoy for many years, it's the customer. I know what my store would be filled with, but it wouldn't necessarily mean it would be a successful store. I think there's a few dealers who have learned over the past few years that they can't just keep what they want to keep. All the great sounding, seldom heard of names in the industry could be under your roof, but that's not going to guarantee a steady weekly income. Unless you're a real high end boutique, you have to have some mainstream manufacturers to draw people in, whether you like the products or not. Your steady income comes from products like WHF's award winners, and established products and brands. Oh, and choice.

We keep any of the WHF award winners that we deal with, basically, because people are going to be coming through the door asking about them. It's no good if we say, "we don't have that on demo, but we do have this, which we feel is better". It doesn't matter how much better it is, if they can't hear it, and hear it against what you think sounds better, they're walking.

Even though Frank Harvey is the fourth major retailer I've worked for, when I started over 6 years ago, I was stunned at the amount of products that were on demo. Having said that, we have a better and wider range now, particularly with speakers, made up of award winners AND products we feel are just a good if not better, and we're far busier and more successful than we ever used to be. As I've said, some retailers ( ) have latched onto this, and increased their portfolio, which can only work well for them, if they get behind the products. If they don't, it'll be a short relationship.

Turnover isn't profit by the way - plenty of failed shops to show that.

A common misconception. Plenty more stores will be proving that this year too.

Ironically the Onkyo 8050 has been mentioned so many times in the last few months, it, could now be classed as one of those boring, dull options. But as you know, this just is not the case..........

I know in the discussion it was mentioned by FATS that we should get one on demo, but here's a product that has some connection with this whole discussion. Why would we want to put a £400 product on display that can be had for £270 online? There could be a number of reasons why this product was being sold so low - maybe the manufacturer did a deal for that dealer so he could do it cheaper - maybe he's cutting down stock - maybe he's clearing them out - or maybe he's just desparate. Who knows. But going back to an earlier point - turnover isn't profit, and keeping products with pricing like that is a fast track to bankruptcy.

on a slightly related note.

can dealers pick and choose what products they sell or will they have to take on the entire line of any given brand?

This depends on the manufacturer. Some manufacturers offer a two or three tier system where depending on how many products you have on demo, you get different rates. Some are the same rate across the board. Some will let you pick and choose what products you have, but might have a minimum number of products to have on demo, or require specific products on demo. And some, not many, require the full range on demo. One rule that some manufacturers put into force is that if it's not on demo, you can't sell it. While this might be a pain for the small retailers, it does reward the dealers who have invested in their business by having certain higher end products on demo - why should a dealer be able to sell a £10k product he's never had on demo and maybe never even heard? The dealers that have invested in that product from day one should be the ones reaping any rewards of that business decision.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Oh, and those views are purely my own, and not that of Frank Harvey himself

 

[moon]

I am still not totally sure of the point of all this

M & S vs independant clothes shop

local deli vs supermarket

seems pretty obvious to me

 

[matthewpiano]

I suspect the business model may be changing for some of the multi-outlet franchises/dealers. As an example, look at the decision to close the Sevenoaks branches in Lancaster and Bolton (both formerly Practical Hi-Fi and then Audio T stores). Lancaster is close enough to be served by the Preston store, whilst Bolton is within easy distance of Manchester where, it seems, Sevenoaks plan to move to a larger store.

It really doesn't make sense to stack the overheads up by having too much store density over a relatively small geographical area, as David has already said. If you can retain the same customers and maintain the same level of business whilst keeping the cost base under control, why wouldn't you?