Clare Newsome:
The aims of that redesign are to add more context and content to reviews, features etc - extra editorial pages, more words for reviews (without losing the simplicity of for/against/verdict/star rating summary) and additional elements of advice in every area of the magazine.
With regards to ratings, id be much happier with a score out of 100. With only the extremely higher end electronics scoring 95 plus (For sound quality say)
This would put things into perspective for everyone, instead of just giving something 5 stars which leads to mass confusion across the board
I also think you should now start grading the 2D quality and 3D quality of 3D tvs separately, as this too has obviously shown itself to be a bit of a nightmare to understand (yes you could 'explain' certain things within the review. But that will NEVER be as good as a solid score for 2D against another 2D screen). Id also much prefer a separate UPSCALING score rather than just 'it has decent upscaling' or something else entirely vague
Another thing ive noticed is your entire failure to mention deinterlacing of tvs. I have the 46W5500, and its deinterlacer has bad jaggies at times (especially football fields and the like)
Reviews elsewhere online (God forgive me for mentioning that competition does exist) I always turn to for tvs. They 'best' ones (And I would assume you DO want to be amongst the best?) test the tvs by using calibrated settings without changing the greyscale (Which is as good as your 'average' viewer is ever going to get). Then for people really into home cinema and go about calibrating greyscale and gamma etc to get the very best they can out of the tv THEN review it.
Theres 2 ways of looking at that. Either you want to cater to just the 'average' person, or you are willing to cater to true home theatre and hifi enthusiasts?
As for hifi, id much rather the frequency response of amps and speakers were 'measured' too. So that everyone knows what theyre getting.
The aims of that redesign are to add more context and content to reviews, features etc - extra editorial pages, more words for reviews (without losing the simplicity of for/against/verdict/star rating summary) and additional elements of advice in every area of the magazine.
With regards to ratings, id be much happier with a score out of 100. With only the extremely higher end electronics scoring 95 plus (For sound quality say)
This would put things into perspective for everyone, instead of just giving something 5 stars which leads to mass confusion across the board
I also think you should now start grading the 2D quality and 3D quality of 3D tvs separately, as this too has obviously shown itself to be a bit of a nightmare to understand (yes you could 'explain' certain things within the review. But that will NEVER be as good as a solid score for 2D against another 2D screen). Id also much prefer a separate UPSCALING score rather than just 'it has decent upscaling' or something else entirely vague
Another thing ive noticed is your entire failure to mention deinterlacing of tvs. I have the 46W5500, and its deinterlacer has bad jaggies at times (especially football fields and the like)
Reviews elsewhere online (God forgive me for mentioning that competition does exist) I always turn to for tvs. They 'best' ones (And I would assume you DO want to be amongst the best?) test the tvs by using calibrated settings without changing the greyscale (Which is as good as your 'average' viewer is ever going to get). Then for people really into home cinema and go about calibrating greyscale and gamma etc to get the very best they can out of the tv THEN review it.
Theres 2 ways of looking at that. Either you want to cater to just the 'average' person, or you are willing to cater to true home theatre and hifi enthusiasts?
As for hifi, id much rather the frequency response of amps and speakers were 'measured' too. So that everyone knows what theyre getting.
bigboss
Moderator
Clare Newsome: As for the 46-50in issue. Well as you can see from our TV reviews, we've long bracketed these two sizes together (and the 47in sets where they pop up). Admittedly that's a legacy of the days when you didn't get many/any LCDs above 46in, so we need to look at that.
I hope it reflects on your best buys as well, because technically, both the VT20 & HX903 qualify for best buys.
I hope it reflects on your best buys as well, because technically, both the VT20 & HX903 qualify for best buys.
ok i have a few points id like to make ..
how does a whfi 5 star rating impact on the actual sales of a tv ?
well , for starters you will see whfi 5 star winner labels on tvs all across the uk and ireland , and given whfis powerful brand name , that will no doubt help to sell those tvs ..
thats a good thing , people can buy with confidence , knowing that whfis expertise has been used in evaluating the said tvs , and manufacturers that get it right , and make the better tvs will be rewarded for their efforts , its a good thing ..
also , people that research on the site , can check out the various "best buys" which are iirc only ever 5 star winners , they can read the reviews of the various best buys of tvs that meet their criteria , price/size/features etc , and help to narrow down to a shortlist , then , as whfi reccomend , they can go and demo said tvs , and make a decision..
all good so far , now heres where i think the 4 stars for the vt20 will have the biggest real world impact , it wont have a 5 star label on it in stores , it wont be in the best buy section on the site (im assuming this , maybe 4 star products are in this section sometimes) and many people that trust whfis judgement , and lets face it there are many tens if not hundreds of thousands , will simply not risk , or maybe want , to buy one , it hasnt been endorsed with 5 stars , people want the best ..
now , the sony pana test (yes i know , i havnt read it yet) is quite interesting , from what i can gather , the vt20 beats the pioneer kuro in some areas , and the sony in others , thats fine by me , and whfi rate the sony higher , they say its an "astonishing" tv , i have no doubt that it is excellent , other reviewers agree that its excellent , but the pana is seemingly also a superb tv , reviews back this up too , so thats fine ..
but the 4 star rating the significance of which is outlined above , that will have a big impact on the sale of that tv , in a negative way , is that fair to say ? anyone ?
and , the edge lit samsung 3dtvs that have been reviewed to date ? well they have been endorsed with 5 stars , fair enough then , they will be in the best buy section , they will sell big time over the next year with their 5 star label proudly draped over them in stores , thats fine too , whfi reviewed them before the sony took top honours , samsung sent them out quite early so good luck to them ..
but now that the sony has landed , they will presumably lose a star in a future grouptest ? but their 5 star labels will , i assume , be still adorning them on the high street ?
will they be removed from the best buy list on the site if they are downgraded ? one could argue thats not too relevant ? as instores the endorsement will sell them , so samsung can presumably enjoy increased sales by a stroke of luck , due to them promptly sending sets out early ..
but , wont this mean that people that buy the samsungs in stores are thus doing so under a false banner of quality ? if so its not whfis fault , but its an interesting thought ..
so , who loses out in all this shuffling of stars the most ? the vt20 ? surely the answer is yes ? my understanding is that its judged by whfi to be better than these edge lit samsungs ? but its stuck with its 4 star label , people that go on star ratings , ok thats not whfis advice , but many many people do , may overlook a tv that is superior to a competing samsung 5 star set (in store 5 star) , thats cheaper than that set , one that beats the best , the kuro in some areas , the samsungs do not do this , do they ?
so , is this fair to those people ? wouldnt a fifth star have been more apt ? in the interest of keeping the public better informed , and giving them a wider choice of "best buys" ? not one person would have queried a 5 star rating for the vt20 , not one , the merits of the sony could have been stressed in the mag , and on the website review , as has been done many many times in the past , several 5 star , best buy tvs compete , one is called the winner , everything is clear ..
is there any chance that if i apoligise for my conspiricy comments earlier , quite silly of me , sorry , that this post might be taken at face value , and responded to in an open and polite manner ...ta...
how does a whfi 5 star rating impact on the actual sales of a tv ?
well , for starters you will see whfi 5 star winner labels on tvs all across the uk and ireland , and given whfis powerful brand name , that will no doubt help to sell those tvs ..
thats a good thing , people can buy with confidence , knowing that whfis expertise has been used in evaluating the said tvs , and manufacturers that get it right , and make the better tvs will be rewarded for their efforts , its a good thing ..
also , people that research on the site , can check out the various "best buys" which are iirc only ever 5 star winners , they can read the reviews of the various best buys of tvs that meet their criteria , price/size/features etc , and help to narrow down to a shortlist , then , as whfi reccomend , they can go and demo said tvs , and make a decision..
all good so far , now heres where i think the 4 stars for the vt20 will have the biggest real world impact , it wont have a 5 star label on it in stores , it wont be in the best buy section on the site (im assuming this , maybe 4 star products are in this section sometimes) and many people that trust whfis judgement , and lets face it there are many tens if not hundreds of thousands , will simply not risk , or maybe want , to buy one , it hasnt been endorsed with 5 stars , people want the best ..
now , the sony pana test (yes i know , i havnt read it yet) is quite interesting , from what i can gather , the vt20 beats the pioneer kuro in some areas , and the sony in others , thats fine by me , and whfi rate the sony higher , they say its an "astonishing" tv , i have no doubt that it is excellent , other reviewers agree that its excellent , but the pana is seemingly also a superb tv , reviews back this up too , so thats fine ..
but the 4 star rating the significance of which is outlined above , that will have a big impact on the sale of that tv , in a negative way , is that fair to say ? anyone ?
and , the edge lit samsung 3dtvs that have been reviewed to date ? well they have been endorsed with 5 stars , fair enough then , they will be in the best buy section , they will sell big time over the next year with their 5 star label proudly draped over them in stores , thats fine too , whfi reviewed them before the sony took top honours , samsung sent them out quite early so good luck to them ..
but now that the sony has landed , they will presumably lose a star in a future grouptest ? but their 5 star labels will , i assume , be still adorning them on the high street ?
will they be removed from the best buy list on the site if they are downgraded ? one could argue thats not too relevant ? as instores the endorsement will sell them , so samsung can presumably enjoy increased sales by a stroke of luck , due to them promptly sending sets out early ..
but , wont this mean that people that buy the samsungs in stores are thus doing so under a false banner of quality ? if so its not whfis fault , but its an interesting thought ..
so , who loses out in all this shuffling of stars the most ? the vt20 ? surely the answer is yes ? my understanding is that its judged by whfi to be better than these edge lit samsungs ? but its stuck with its 4 star label , people that go on star ratings , ok thats not whfis advice , but many many people do , may overlook a tv that is superior to a competing samsung 5 star set (in store 5 star) , thats cheaper than that set , one that beats the best , the kuro in some areas , the samsungs do not do this , do they ?
so , is this fair to those people ? wouldnt a fifth star have been more apt ? in the interest of keeping the public better informed , and giving them a wider choice of "best buys" ? not one person would have queried a 5 star rating for the vt20 , not one , the merits of the sony could have been stressed in the mag , and on the website review , as has been done many many times in the past , several 5 star , best buy tvs compete , one is called the winner , everything is clear ..
is there any chance that if i apoligise for my conspiricy comments earlier , quite silly of me , sorry , that this post might be taken at face value , and responded to in an open and polite manner ...ta...
Max - we have had four-star products in both our Best Buys and indeed our Award winner line-up - oddly enough, Panasonic won an Award with a four-star product last year - its Blu-ray recorder.
We also have a four-star logo that has been supplied to manufacturers and retailers, which gets widely used where applicable too - many people realise the strength of a four-star rating.
If a manufacturer gets a five-star rating that's then downgraded, we ask it to make it clear which month it got its rating in - so people know how old that review/recommendation is. Open up your latest issue of WHF, go to the retail adverts in the Buyer's Guide and you'll see several examples of date-stamped logos.
I've already mentioned that previously reviewed sets will be reappraised when we Group Test (which won't be long), so the Samsung will get re-rated if needed.
But there was no 'luck' involved with them getting that rating - they got us the set first, and it remains a great set.
As already mentioned, Panasonic would have been in the same situation had we not received our review unit well after many other reviewers. Again, I don't hold that against them - we've had many Panasonic products first both this and previous years, and I can understand manufacturers wanting to share products out.
And finally, thank you for your apology for your nonsense conspiracy comments. Long overdue, but warmly accepted
PS - As mentioned many times in this and other threads, Panasonic gets a big shiny five stars - and a Supertest win - for one of its new 32in TVs in the current issue. That's Britain's biggest-selling TV size - with thousands more sets sold in this size/price class than at the specialist, VT20 level.
We also have a four-star logo that has been supplied to manufacturers and retailers, which gets widely used where applicable too - many people realise the strength of a four-star rating.
If a manufacturer gets a five-star rating that's then downgraded, we ask it to make it clear which month it got its rating in - so people know how old that review/recommendation is. Open up your latest issue of WHF, go to the retail adverts in the Buyer's Guide and you'll see several examples of date-stamped logos.
I've already mentioned that previously reviewed sets will be reappraised when we Group Test (which won't be long), so the Samsung will get re-rated if needed.
But there was no 'luck' involved with them getting that rating - they got us the set first, and it remains a great set.
As already mentioned, Panasonic would have been in the same situation had we not received our review unit well after many other reviewers. Again, I don't hold that against them - we've had many Panasonic products first both this and previous years, and I can understand manufacturers wanting to share products out.
And finally, thank you for your apology for your nonsense conspiracy comments. Long overdue, but warmly accepted
PS - As mentioned many times in this and other threads, Panasonic gets a big shiny five stars - and a Supertest win - for one of its new 32in TVs in the current issue. That's Britain's biggest-selling TV size - with thousands more sets sold in this size/price class than at the specialist, VT20 level.
For the record, the Best Buys get regularly updated and in fact only this morning I sat down with our Tech Ed to update the list in light of the reviews in the September issue (on sale tomorrow).
The Best Buy section of the website will be further updated once the September reviews go online.
The Best Buy section of the website will be further updated once the September reviews go online.
With all this excitement, I cannot wait to buy the issue tomorrow. I hope the review will be as provocative as this post.
And my view - not intended to inflame - the vt20, which I have seen in person, is a very unattractive set, that looks like it is a first generation plasma.
And my view - not intended to inflame - the vt20, which I have seen in person, is a very unattractive set, that looks like it is a first generation plasma.
John Duncan
Well-known member
maxflinn:thanks clare , guys ,
ive been a right idiot these last few days , i so need a job ..
I think WHF should employ you, but you're not allowed to review any Panasonic product!!!
I think WHF should employ you, but you're not allowed to review any Panasonic product!!!
maxflinn:thanks clare , guys ,
ive been a right idiot these last few days , i so need a job ..
Nah, not falling for it again: this is just another lull before a further onslaught of abuse.
You've done it too many times before, max...
Nah, not falling for it again: this is just another lull before a further onslaught of abuse.
You've done it too many times before, max...
Andrew Everard:maxflinn:thanks clare , guys ,
ive been a right idiot these last few days , i so need a job ..
Nah, not falling for it again: this is just another lull before a further onslaught of abuse.
You've done it too many times before, max...nah , no more abuse andrew , id just like to enjoy the forums from time to time , its a good crack , its whfis forum after all , and ive been disrespectful of that , i wouldnt like it if i was in your shoes ...
Nah, not falling for it again: this is just another lull before a further onslaught of abuse.
You've done it too many times before, max...nah , no more abuse andrew , id just like to enjoy the forums from time to time , its a good crack , its whfis forum after all , and ive been disrespectful of that , i wouldnt like it if i was in your shoes ...
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