should the vt20 have got 5 stars ? yes or no ...

[Anonymous]

having read through some of these posts i thought i would share my opinion having bought one of the vt20's for about a month and ended up sending it back.

Firstly i would give this tv 4/12 stars as i don't believe its worth 5 stars but better than 4.

It definatly has the best 3d on the market and can't see any lcd's being better in the near future as 3D is more suited to plasma right now.

Reguarding 2D it also has probably the best 2D picture on the market once calibrated as it looks truely gorgeous. in spite of these things theres still things that can be improved.

For one the glasses are rubbish and not very comfy at all.

The black levels are very good but these sets suffer from floating blacks which was one of the main reasons i sent my TV back. It can be very distracting from the viewing experiance like it was for me.

The other main reason i sent mine back was because of the motion problems these sets suffer from.

Theres a very big thread about this on ''another'' forum describing the issue so i wont bother doing into detail but these 2 issues where the reasons i sent mine back.

There was a 3rd issue reguaring the potential black level rising which the 2009 sets suffered from and i wasn't willing to take the chance with panasonic and wait and see.

Overall its a great TV but not as perfect as some people make it out to be.

Now personally find this whole topic really interesting because the sony HX903 is the tv i was going to replace it with and i much prefere LCD to plasma. I would never buy a TV in the future though just from reading reviews. You only really find out what tv's are like once they have gone to retail and alot of people have them as they spend alot of time with them and might see things reviewers have missed.

In america the sony is already available to buy and its been reported by some people to have its own issues hence the reason why im not going to jump in and get the sony just yet.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Iniquity1:
having read through some of these posts i thought i would share my opinion having bought one of the vt20's for about a month and ended up sending it back.

Firstly i would give this tv 4/12 stars as i don't believe its worth 5 stars but better than 4.

It definatly has the best 3d on the market and can't see any lcd's being better in the near future as 3D is more suited to plasma right now.

Reguarding 2D it also has probably the best 2D picture on the market once calibrated as it looks truely gorgeous. in spite of these things theres still things that can be improved.

For one the glasses are rubbish and not very comfy at all.

The black levels are very good but these sets suffer from floating blacks which was one of the main reasons i sent my TV back. It can be very distracting from the viewing experiance like it was for me.

The other main reason i sent mine back was because of the motion problems these sets suffer from.

Theres a very big thread about this on ''another'' forum describing the issue so i wont bother doing into detail but these 2 issues where the reasons i sent mine back.

There was a 3rd issue reguaring the potential black level rising which the 2009 sets suffered from and i wasn't willing to take the chance with panasonic and wait and see.

Overall its a great TV but not as perfect as some people make it out to be.

Now personally find this whole topic really interesting because the sony HX903 is the tv i was going to replace it with and i much prefere LCD to plasma. I would never buy a TV in the future though just from reading reviews. You only really find out what tv's are like once they have gone to retail and alot of people have them as they spend alot of time with them and might see things reviewers have missed.

In america the sony is already available to buy and its been reported by some people to have its own issues hence the reason why im not going to jump in and get the sony just yet.

A breath of fresh air. Thank you.

 

[Dan Turner]

Am I missing something? Surely any product should get whatever the person/people reviewing it thought it should get after spending a lot of time testing it and comparing it to competing products? Why would anyone have a vested interest in what rating a product gets anyway?

If nothing else I doubt anyone here is in a position to say that they have had the opportunity to do as much comparative reviewing between the Panny in question and it's rivals as the WHF team have, so on what basis is the result being questioned?

When all's said and done the conclusions of any review no matter how objective or rigourous are just an opinion, so there's no need to take issue if the outcome is not as you expected it to be.

 

[aliEnRIK]

My vote ~

I couldnt care less

 

[Anonymous]

nor me

 

[bigboss]

For me, it doesn't really matter who got a 4 or a 5 star. The only thing I'm uncomfortable with the ratings is, that the Sony TV is a 46-inch one & not the 52-inch one (which is a more apt screen for comparison with the VT20). And, as stated by WHF themselves, a brilliiant 46-inch TV does not mean that its elder 52-inch sibling (of the same model range) is equally superb. It's not a like-for-like comparison in my books. Also, I would've expected the Sony to be directly compared against the Kuro (if it had beaten the VT20)which wasn't done....or atleast, wasn't mentioned in the review.

This rating system adopted by WHF (of giving an overall rating rather than individual aspects like picture, sound, tuner etc.) is subject to bias. If WHF docks a star for sound quality in a TV, for example, the user should be able to see a separate rating for the sound. It may not be important to him/her if he/she already has a sound system.

Yes, you do adopt this system in group tests, but not in individual reviews. Despite the Sony being compared against the Panasonic indirectly, there was no direct head-to-head comparison. Please be consistent in this regard. This is a sincere request from a subscriber who is paying for the issues & feels disappointed with the inconsistent review system. I should feel that the money is being well spent.

Every review site or magazine adopts a style of reviewing products, & users often identify themselves with one style or the other. Sadly, WHF hasn't got one, making it difficult for us to identify with it. I hope WHF doesn't rest on its laurels of being the largest selling Hi-Fi magazine & works towards making it better.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Thanks for your feedback.

I'm sorry to hear you feel we don't have a reviewing style.

We feel that by team-testing in dedicated facilities we have more consistency than any other mags/sites, who rely on a disparate group of freelancers. With WHF reviews, you're always reading the view of a team of people, after thorough discussion, not the view of a particular individual.

We're also zealous about ALL our reviews being comparative (as opposed to a first review being a standalone look, followed by group tests). Nothing is tested in isolation, even if it's fresh into our test rooms - it goes up against the competition and reference kit. The Sony did go up against the Kuro - and more than held its own - and i'll make sure we put some paragraphs about that in the review when it goes online.

As for the 46-50in issue. Well as you can see from our TV reviews, we've long bracketed these two sizes together (and the 47in sets where they pop up). Admittedly that's a legacy of the days when you didn't get many/any LCDs above 46in, so we need to look at that.

And we are always looking at how we work, what we deliver and how it should evolve.That included a major research project earlier this year, which has combined with a range of feedback from these very Forums - and reader emails, letters etc - to inspire our forthcoming magazine redesign, due from next issue.

The aims of that redesign are to add more context and content to reviews, features etc - extra editorial pages, more words for reviews (without losing the simplicity of for/against/verdict/star rating summary) and additional elements of advice in every area of the magazine.

That issue will be with subscribers from 19 August and in shops from 24th. It'll be accompanied by a video on this site with behind-the-scenes looks at testing, the team, etc etc. And then (eventually, given fair wind and technology that works) we'll have a website redesign with a lot of the same extra elements, too.

We hope you like it; we're sure you'll all let us know (and would welcome constructive feedback, as always).

 

[Anonymous]

The bottom line to this thread that Maxflinn started is that we are all enthusiats of hi-fi and/or AV products, and when we shell out sometimes substantial amounts of dosh for said equipment, we need to know that we have made good and sensible choices. For some this means that the product has to be the best of it's class ie. A 5 star product. For others it's the fulfillment of a long held desire to own a specific piece of equipment that is generally highly regarded anyway.

But there is no doubt that it is personally disappointing to purchase a new bit of gear only to find it subsequently reviewed in WHF and recieve a lower rating than was expected. Unfortunately, this is the risk you take when you purchase a new piece of technology and 3D televisions really are at the cutting edge at the moment. Just like early CD, DVD or Bluray players, they are rapidly improved upon and developed so that early models quickly look outdated and are out-classed. This is the down-side of being the first on the block to have the latest 'big thing' !

But we need people like Max who dive in and take the first step, open debate and create discussion. Be proud of your purchase and love it for what it is, a big bold step into the future because what you have now we may well all own at some point and take for granted but aren't fortunate or bold enough to take that step yet without others going there first...well done Max !!

Oh, and I eagerly look forward to the entertaining discussions the new magazine format will undoubtedly create Claire..

 

[Anonymous]

I used to frequent this place years ago, and it never ceases to amaze me that hifi forums are far more combative than most other types.

If I, who recently bought one of the sets in question, can shrug my shoulders and move on, it amazes me that others cannot. And whilst questioning a review (or taking it with a pinch of salt based upon personal experience) isn't unreasonable, the fact that this debate (sic) has sprawled over so many threads seems a bit off.

As someone else observed, it's only a TV.

 

[John Duncan]

ricardo65:But we need people like Max who dive in and take the first step, open debate and create discussion. Be proud of your purchase and love it for what it is, a big bold step into the future because what you have now we may well all own at some point and take for granted but aren't fortunate or bold enough to take that step yet without others going there first...well done Max !!

So Max actually bought the VT20 then?

 

[Clare Newsome]

Nope. But he has seen a demo. Unlike the Sony HX903, which he hasn't seen at all.

 

[John Duncan]

Thanks, that's clearer now.

 

[Andrew Everard]

JohnDuncan:So Max actually bought the VT20 then?

Not according to his sig he didn't. But then he's enraged about the review/doesn't care/reads the magazine very month/won't buy it but will read it in Tesco/is going out/isn't going out/is arguing/isn't arguing/is deadly serious/is only joking/is thinking everything through/is just spouting the first nonsense that comes into his head

It's been a very long weekend...

 

[Anonymous]

................

 

[Andrew Everard]

maxflinn:

If only...

 

[Clare Newsome]

ricardo65:
The bottom line to this thread that Maxflinn started is that we are all enthusiats of hi-fi and/or AV products, and when we shell out sometimes substantial amounts of dosh for said equipment, we need to know that we have made good and sensible choices. For some this means that the product has to be the best of it's class ie. A 5 star product. For others it's the fulfillment of a long held desire to own a specific piece of equipment that is generally highly regarded anyway.

But there is no doubt that it is personally disappointing to purchase a new bit of gear only to find it subsequently reviewed in WHF and recieve a lower rating than was expected. Unfortunately, this is the risk you take when you purchase a new piece of technology and 3D televisions really are at the cutting edge at the moment. Just like early CD, DVD or Bluray players, they are rapidly improved upon and developed so that early models quickly look outdated and are out-classed. This is the down-side of being the first on the block to have the latest 'big thing' !

But we need people like Max who dive in and take the first step, open debate and create discussion. Be proud of your purchase and love it for what it is, a big bold step into the future because what you have now we may well all own at some point and take for granted but aren't fortunate or bold enough to take that step yet without others going there first...well done Max !!

Oh, and I eagerly look forward to the entertaining discussions the new magazine format will undoubtedly create Claire..

But as the review (which still so few have actually read) points out, the Panasonic is an amazing set - anyone could/would/should be proud to own one.

Interestingly, we're considering changing our descriptions of our star ratings along with the redesigned issue. So where five is 'excellent' and four is 'very good', five stars would now indicate a great all-rounder, whereas four stars would be 'best for some'.

Now if you're the person that four-star product is best for - maybe it's a hi-fi product that excels with classical music, for example, or a TV that's the best for gaming - you've found your ideal. Though not before you've seen/heard the product in action, of course....

 

[The_Lhc]

I'm not one to tell people how to run their own forum... (just leave that one hanging there)

BUT, if it were me, I'd have locked the thread up until the point Max had confirmed he'd bought the magazine and read all the relevant reviews thoroughly, so he actually had some logical basis for his arguments. Until that point everything he's saying is just irrelevant hot air.

 

[Anonymous]

So Max hasn't even bought the damn thing yet ??!! What's all this about then and why so bothered about the star rating...you got Panasonic shares ??...build a bridge and get over it...Is there a genuine owner out there as upset about the review ??!! Gotta make you wonder...

 

[Andrew Everard]

the_lhc:
BUT, if it were me, I'd have locked the thread

Which one? There are at least three on the go, plus associated max-induced attack threads on other subjects, too...

 

[Clare Newsome]

Aside from Max's nonsense, there have been some (I hope) valid discussions and clarifications however.

People can (and do!) criticise our reviews, but at least we're here -even at weekends - to both receive and act on feedback, including providing extra insight into the reviewing process.

 

[John Duncan]

Yes but if we locked all threads that contained irrelevant hot air until they could be backed up with reason...

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:I'm not one to tell people how to run their own forum... (just leave that one hanging there)

BUT, if it were me, I'd have locked the thread up until the point Max had confirmed he'd bought the magazine and read all the relevant reviews thoroughly, so he actually had some logical basis for his arguments. Until that point everything he's saying is just irrelevant hot air.not so at all , my beef was not the 5 stars for the sony , re read the various threads and that is clear ..

my issue was how the vt20 , a tv i have seen many times , and is considered by all other tech sites to be the best tv for sale , could get 4 stars when its given top marks everywhere else ? and how whfi found no crosstalk on a tv that so far ,the two other reviewers that have tested both has found ? will reading the review answer that question ? doubt it ..

anyways , im going for a walk , its a lovely day , ill let others discuss "the review" ..

 

[John Duncan]

maxflinn:is considered by all other tech sites to be the best tv for sale

Maybe they're stooges for the television industry

 

[Anonymous]

That's a fair point Clare and well made, but in my opinion, the star rating system comes secondary anyway. I don't think I own a single piece of gear that was rated by WHF very highly but feel I have a perfectly satisfactory set-up for my purpose. The magazine needs to be read and reviews put in context as every individuals set-up varies and a specific piece of kit will suit one but not the other regardless of ratings. Value for money or build quality or overall sound quality are all relative and personal surely...

 

[The_Lhc]

maxflinn:
the_lhc:I'm not one to tell people how to run their own forum... (just leave that one hanging there)

BUT, if it were me, I'd have locked the thread up until the point Max had confirmed he'd bought the magazine and read all the relevant reviews thoroughly, so he actually had some logical basis for his arguments. Until that point everything he's saying is just irrelevant hot air.not so at all , my beef was not the 5 stars for the sony , re read the various threads and that is clear ..

I didn't say it was Max, in fact I didn't directly mention the Sony at all, so I don't know why you'd mention it.

my issue was how the vt20 , a tv i have seen many times , and is considered by all other tech sites to be the best tv for sale , could get 4 stars when its given top marks everywhere else ? and how whfi found no crosstalk on a tv that so far ,the two other reviewers that have tested both has found ? will reading the review answer that question ? doubt it ..

Really? you doubt that? You doubt that actually reading the review you've spent THREE DAYS criticizing is a good idea?

Andrew's right, sorry Max, I used to like you but this weekend has seen some of the most ridiculous postings I've ever read here (and that's saying something, I post here myself after all...), I won't use the phrase "get a life" because I think it's deeply insulting but I do think you really need to re-evaluate your priorities because this "discussion" has been the most ludicrous, delusional thing I've ever seen.

You're not a bad chap Max, I don't think there's any malice in you but I won't be reading your postings any more, sorry.