Should I try new cables?

jaxwired

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Feb 7, 2009
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First off, I'm very happy with my current cables. I have 2 chord company crimsons interconnects (last version), and chord odyssey 2 for the speakers. I know many people will say "if you're happy, why change". And to this I say, ".....crikets......". I'm just asking in anyone thinks I should try something else and if so what. Thanks, my WHF friends.
 

shooter

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No harm in trying jaxwired.

I always recommend Kimber cable for 2 reasons. one i've tried it and still use it and it work's welll for me and secondly here in the UK Russs Andrews do a 30 day returns policy if your not satisfied. Pretty decent of them i'd say but not sure if you can get that deal abroad with RA but Kimber have other dealers stateside that may do the same, drop em and email.
 
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Anonymous

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You can reap some big cable improvements by unplugging them, and then plugging them back in again.

This cleans off some of the oxide from the connections. Some people choose to unplug them, drive a long distance, spand a lot of money on new ones and plug those in, but the effect and the cure is the same: just unplug them and plug them in again.

Then you can spend your time and money on something that actually will make a difference, the things that make the most difference are in this order:

1. Speakers

2. Amplifier

3. DAC/CD player

Remember when you audition speakers make sure they are driven by a decent class A amp or a tube amp, as some scratchy shrieking class B transistor with oodles of feedback to wreck your transients will change the sound of many speakers quite dramatically.

Oh and use copper for cables. Just good old plain copper. It's the best conductor (some types better than silver) and is readily available in good sensible cables at reasonable prices. Oh and about the DAC - pro-audio DACs are in my view far superior in quality and value for money but many CDs will not sound good through them as you can hear the CD clipping - most CD/home DACs have much better clipping - the average clipping rate on many CDs now is over 200Hz.

ETA: if you are worried about RFI pickup in cables, buy some clip-on Ferrite Cores from Rapid for about £2 each and cip them over the speaker cable near the amplifer. In some cases (where RFI is a problem and you run a deep feedback amp) this will improve the sound.
 

noogle

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Globs said:
Oh and about the DAC - pro-audio DACs are in my view far superior in quality and value for money but many CDs will not sound good through them as you can hear the CD clipping - most CD/home DACs have much better clipping - the average clipping rate on many CDs now is over 200Hz.

I thought clipping was when the peaks of waveforms got cut off when they hit the supply rail voltage? How do CDs clip?
 
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Anonymous

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Give it a try. Most decent hifi shops will do loaners for a refundable deposit. Try the mains cables too.

If the changes work for you, all well and good. If not, you've not lost anything.

Disconnecting and reconnecting the connections should be a part of any music lover's routine, but to my ears the differences take months to build up. I try to do mine every two weeks (along with a CD lens clean and a power-down*), but this is more to keep it in tip top condition than a belief that the contacts deteriorate in any audible way over fourteen days. *I used to use the Densen Demagic disc, but turning everything off for a while seems to do more.

FWIW, my experiences of the difference between cables has been much greater than that attributable to keeping the connections clean, but clearly not everyone agrees with this view.
 

lindsayt

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Try some free speaker cable - any decently thick insulated copper cable that's long enough.

Try the cheapest gold plated interconnects you can find that are long enough.

Also try anything else that you fancy. Maybe some cables that you see as your ultimate fantasy cables. Best if you can try them on the basis that if you're not 100% happy, you can return them for a full refund.

And please report back here on what you found with your cable trials.
 

CnoEvil

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Jaxwired, given you live in the States (I think), try to get a home demo of Cardas......brilliantly musical cables from one of the most respected people in the industry, George Cardas (along with Colleen Cardas).

Second hand they can be purchased from Audiogon.

Cno
 
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Anonymous

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noogle said:
Globs said:
Oh and about the DAC - pro-audio DACs are in my view far superior in quality and value for money but many CDs will not sound good through them as you can hear the CD clipping - most CD/home DACs have much better clipping - the average clipping rate on many CDs now is over 200Hz.

I thought clipping was when the peaks of waveforms got cut off when they hit the supply rail voltage? How do CDs clip?

Ni Noogle,

A CD is a collection of numbers for the levels, each number fitting inside a 16bit word.

This gives a range of -32768 to +32767, which are you digital 'supply rails'. Othen CDs are clipped to these values, but also they can be clipped to a slightly lower number - and sometimes within the last 300 values or so. Google SeeDeclip for a free tool to count them in your favourite CD track.

Note: 1990s CDs have far less clipping than 2000s. In fact the odd Pink Floyd and Abba CD haven't got a single clip. Whether you can hear these clips depends upon frequency, length and your DAC overload character. In general they happen in clusters on each drum beat/bass guitar strum so you get a very tiring sound.
 
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Anonymous

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If I had Bryston and top of the range Dynaudios I would get top of the range cables also. I was using Chord Odyssey on a system worth ten times less than yours.
 

bluebrazil

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i am also sceptical about cables and especially interconnects, (although i can hear the difference between silver plated and pure copper in interconnects). Given that you have dynaudios i would suggest that you try to get hold of the cheapest runs of solid core copper ones that you can find or experiment with alternative guages/strand counts of budget copper.
 
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the record spot

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Stick with what you have. Not a whole lot to be gained with different brands of copper cable. You might differ of course!
 

bluebrazil

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i agree that changing brands is not going to give any gain ,( he may get lucky), but going from a different construction, ie solid core, or moving to different guages or strand counts will alter the electral impedences. If jax wants to experiment and not spend a truck load of money i'm confident that a little research/cheap experimenting on cable diameters and other parameters can be done on a budget via the pro audio market or even an electical wholesalers.
 
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the record spot

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Yes, I went from Audioquest solid core speaker cable to 322 strand instead. Worked a treat. Never heard a difference between many different types of copper based interconnect yet using the reference material I use for such things. Fun to try out, but in the end, the £7 cable performed much as per the £225 one. Couldn't agree more re: the pro-audio / electrical retailer approach.
 
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Anonymous

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I still find it difficult to accept there are people in the world that pay good money for the rather utilitarian connections between various boxes.

Rather than changing their room, their speakers, tweaking their amps or just playing the music when they are in a better mood (mood has an amazing effect of how good stuff sounds) they spend hundreds and thousands on a placebo that has zero effect on anything bar their wallet.

Seriously - I'm totally baffled. I've been at shows too where some guy is peddling some super amazing cryo cable - sometimes even mains cables (for Pete's sake), and as they explain some imaginary benefit as they A/B switch bwteen the two identical sounds I puzzle as to why the system they are trying to improve is usually a screechy boxy affair (generally involving B&W speakers). I guess it's easy to ignore fundamental system shortcomings when you focus your efforts on the only neutral and innocent part of your hifi ;)

Please feel free to infer from this that I consider the art of cable selling gives Snake Oil a bad name :)
 
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the record spot

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Same here, which is why I bought the Atlas Navigators off Ebay. Thought I should pony up and back up my views that there wasn't a major difference at all, which I subsequently found. I got my 14 AWG cable off Ebay from an AV firm - £5.49 for 10m delivered.
 
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Anonymous

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Surely approaching the issue with a certainty that there's nothing to be gained is just as likely to yield a psychologically-driven result as being utterly convinced that you'll hear night and day.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
12th said:
Surely approaching the issue with a certainty that there's nothing to be gained is just as likely to yield a psychologically-driven result as being utterly convinced that you'll hear night and day.

Too true.

When I was talking to a Chord rep about the Placebic effect of cables, he said "If someone finds their system unenjoyably harsh and buys a cable which tricks them into enjoying their music, isnt the result then the same as if the cable had actually changed the sound?"

Almost sounds like he was accepting that they didn't do anything.

That said, I have found differences in some cables which I don't 'think' were placebo. The biggest difference was going from some Gale OFC stuff to QED Silver Anniversary.
 
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the record spot

Guest
12th said:
Surely approaching the issue with a certainty that there's nothing to be gained is just as likely to yield a psychologically-driven result as being utterly convinced that you'll hear night and day.

I went in open-minded as I usually do with hifi. Still have the Atlas cables in and swap them out from time to time. The point wasn't to confirm my belief but to see if a £225 cable (bought for £80) would offer anything new thanks to improved construction etc, different materials, all the usual stuff that people cite as being influential. I put them in, let them play for a week or two, swapped with the Qunex 2 and back again, using at times tracks I know very well. I came to my conclusions based on an open mind not from anegative stance. If anything I wanted the Atlas cables to make a slight difference. Night and day didn't factor in; I'd have taken minimal.
 
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Anonymous

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I should pony up and back up my views that there wasn't a major difference at all, which I subsequently found.

I'm sure you can see why that doesn't sound entirely impartial. I'm merely pointing out that the psychology argument is one that can work just as effectively in both directions. But then I suppose we all think we're the most fair-minded etc etc...
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
I'm still not totally sure where I stand on cables. I've heard differences between cables, usually when they have been made out of different materials, and I'm currently using Chord ChameleonPlus interconnect which, as far as I'm concerned, is quite an expensive bit of wire. What I can't be sure of is whether or not it is a psychological thing.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
12th said:
I should pony up and back up my views that there wasn't a major difference at all, which I subsequently found. I'm sure you can see why that doesn't sound entirely impartial. I'm merely pointing out that the psychology argument is one that can work just as effectively in both directions. But then I suppose we all think we're the most fair-minded etc etc...

I wasn't undertaking an exercise for anyone else's benefit, so impartiality didn't factor in my thinking in the context of this discussion. Atlas had reduced prices of their stock - £225 to £80 in this case for the Navigator - and I went for a pair. The idea was as much to challenge my own views as much as see if they panned out the same.

I don't buy your theory around the pschology angle either; but I'm not going to play cod psychology with anyone in this. You are of course welcome to come round to my place and hear for yourself. Though going by your equipment list you're presumably going to hear stuff I never could...either that or you're a sucker for some good marketing spiel. ;-)

And no, I don't think I'm the most fair-minded at all. Not my mindset. It clarified a few things for me though and showed how much we as consumers are influenced by selling techniques; it's a path I walked a fair distance down and one I'm happy to have left.

The invite's open though - if you're near Edinburgh sometime, give me a shout.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
My view is : I couldn't give a monkeys about speaker cable or interconnects anymore. I prefer to spend money on things like rugs, which have a profound effect on room acoustics. 322 stand copper speaker cable, black and red interconnects for me.

anyway jax you have one of the best room setups I have seen, You could spend the money on a good Whisky collection and another chair for friends to be blown away by the Dynaudios.

good luck with whatever you choose, and for the record I am not at all jealous of your listening room.

Not
 

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