Should I think?

[Jim-W]

The real probem here is, of course, the selling off of public utilities and the privatisation (schools, NHS) of much of what was publicly owned; gas and electricity bills are extortionate and many people face difficult choices re eat or heat...or er amplify. Some will think I'm being facetious, but it's not very often the real world crashes its way into these rarified discussions of cables and banana plugs.

The sooner we re-nationalise our public services, the sooner we will move into a fairer, more compassionate society where pensioners, like CJSF and I, can enjoy our retirement without being scared to death of turning the heating and amplification on.

 

[lindsayt]

I can't remember which Icon amp CJSF has. But going by the manufacturers figures, their 845PP model typically uses 220 watts from the mains. That model has 4 big 845 valves and 5 smaller valves. Their 20SE model draws 150 watts.

Going by worst case figures, lets say he's got the 845 PP model using 220 watts. Has it on for 16 hours a day for 30 days of the month. At a cost of about 10p per kilowatt hour that gives us a cost of £10.56 per month. Bearing in mind his previous amp would have used some electricity, there's no way that his £350 increase is solely down to his change in amplifiers.

If he has a model that draws 150 watts, uses it for an average of about 5 hours per day that works out at £2.30 per month. That's still heavy usage because of things like sleeping, holidays, going out, watching TV instead etc etc etc. Whilst this is not quite as cheap as a solid state amp drawing an average of 20 watts at £0.30 per month, but at an extra £24 per year that's way below the £350 initially feared.

One way to think of it is to add £240 (or £480 to cover the next 20 years of extra electricity bills) to the initial purchase price and think to yourself "Would I still have bought the amp if it had cost £240 or £480 more?"

We really need CJSF to tell us how many hours a month he has his amp on and how much electricity it actually uses (which we might be able to estimate from the model and the manufacturers specs).

Often when making a decision, gathering all the relevant facts helps in making the decision.

 

[lindsayt]

Grow up says the man whose first contribution to this thread was to make a thread cr@pping advert that was also quite insulting towards the original poster, and whose most recent post includes a trolling insult directed at me.

If you feel slighted by such lanuage, I truly feel sorry for you.

Another trollish insult.

Stop it!

 

[steve_1979]

Someone (not you CJ) should buy a set of AVI DM5s then connect them to a valve pre-amp and a turntable!

I genuinely think that DM5's used with a nice turntable and a Naim Unitiqute for the digital source and pre-amp duties would make a cracking system.

 

[stevebrock]

He has an ST40 Mk2 with KT88s

 

[CnoEvil]

As someone who has not compromised musical enjoyment by taking a more pragmatic approach, I fully understand.

The way I see it, you have several options:

- Enjoy what you have and live with the cost.

- Cut down on usage, possibly by investing in a second cheaper system / all in one, that is easier to run (as Tino suggested a while back), and which you can use to fill in with.

- Start checking out Class D (which I suspect isn't what you are looking for), eg. Linn, Bel Canto, Nad (some models).

- One option would be Class G, which is a clever way of having a Class A sound, without using so much power...examples of this are the new Arcam A39 and Creek Evolution 100A. Here is Arcam's white paper on the A49 (A39's big Class G brother): http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/a49/Technical%20Notes/The_technologies_behind_the_A49_101014_A.pdf

Also (check Page2 Post 23): http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/i-look

 

[matthewpiano]

The electricity suppliers all offer smart meters now, with displays which give clearer details on usage. I personally think you need to explore what is causing your higher bills a little more thoroughly before making any decisions about changing a system you clearly love (you must love it, or you wouldn't spend as much time listening to music on it as you do).

As an example, here is a link to Eon's smart metering:

https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home/saving-energy/smart-meters

 

[spiny norman]

I like John Barry. Is that weird? *scratch_one-s_head*

Only that he retired so early. I mean, 27; what could've been, eh?

 

[tino]

I suspect as others have mentioned that it's not just the valve amp that is increasing your bills.

- Has the unit price of electricity from your supplier gone up? Can you switch to a better rate?

- Are you using a power hungry desktop PC and monitor as a source?

- Are ancillaries e.g. DAC, routers etc. left on all the time?

- Is your electricity usage going up because you spend more time indoors listening to music - heating, lighting, cups of tea/horlicks?

- Have you misread the bill?

Either way it's really up to you to see how and where your electricity is being used and what you want to afford versus the listening pleasure and hifi pride of ownership it gives you. Personally, if I spent that much time with music on, I probably would recommend another cheaper system for moments of casual listening ... I might even suggest one of the new fangled all-in-one streaming speakers.

 

[CJSF]

Well, thats aired things a little more. Hazel and I will pay for our music, I will talk to British Gas, my supplier and see what they can sugest re working out why the increase? And befor anyone jumps in with 'you can get it cheper from xyz', I am on a fixed tarif signed for 3 years ago at that price, I am getting my energy very cheaply, the last 5 year deal I did, I saved £1400 over the 5 years.

As I said, we are not on the poverty line, far from it, I'm better off retired than I was in the last few years of my working life. My concer was why and whilst OK now, 'all prices are rising' and we persioners (or the average worker) are not keeping up, so in 5 or 10 years from now I might have different thoughts. Dont forget, those of you who say 'I'm OK', I have a job, you will be facing pension issues as you approch silver years? We are enjoying our retirement, despite 'the best laid plans of mice and men' going completly the wrong way . . . I woud not have got away with 't*ts up' would I*acute*

I sorted the Croft out of the loft this morning, the back is now playing up!! So not been able to plug in to have a listen. Creek has been mentioned, my friendly dealer and 'hifi life long friend' is a dealer. I need to have a word with him, he is already waiting for a call from me re borrowing a pair of Harbeth type LS35a, the idea is to see how far I have come, if at all, compared with my hay day in the 80's, I can talk to him about Creek and Croft and Icom, dealer for all three.

My reputation as a tweaker wears a little thin these days, nothing done to the TT for many months, been potering with furniture changes, 'tidy up the room' so I might as well do it with hifi in mind. which led to experimenting with hanging blankets off the wall. Cheap, and effective 'point in the right direction' and an overall improvement for all types of music and media, I will put the propper pannels up soon, very cost efective at under £200, yes I do pay for my music.

My mind is looking to the lowest comon denominator in true hifi terms, that may be the curent system, it may be one of the options talked of here or a combination. The factor of cost is the impotant thing, 'how much for how little', plus energy comes into the equasion.

Hobbies I have persued have always been costly, so 'getting as big a bang for ones buck' has always been important, without deminished pleasure . . . often requiring a little more imput from myself but that has always been part of the pleasure.

See if I can hook up the Croft this afternoon?

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

I suspect as others have mentioned that it's not just the valve amp that is increasing your bills.

- Has the unit price of electricity from your supplier gone up? Can you switch to a better rate?

- Are you using a power hungry desktop PC and monitor as a source?

- Are ancillaries e.g. DAC, routers etc. left on all the time?

- Is your electricity usage going up because you spend more time indoors listening to music - heating, lighting, cups of tea/horlicks?

- Have you misread the bill?

Either way it's really up to you to see how and where your electricity is being used and what you want to afford versus the listening pleasure and hifi pride of ownership it gives you. Personally, if I spent that much time with music on, I probably would recommend another cheaper system for moments of casual listening ... I might even suggest one of the new fangled all-in-one streaming speakers.

Yep tino, probably all of those, slept on the issue, I think I have also missread the assesment, £350 over what apears to be 2012 to 2014, not over one year. Its still an increas but not so large and yes I had forgotten, I retired at the beginning of the period, so I'm at home a lot . . . *acute*Doh

CJSF

 

[nopiano]

Tino and Lindsay seem to have hit the nail on the head, CJ. The amp cannot be the only contributor to that £350. Even if it were, it is less than a pound a day, which is nothing for the pleasure you derive. And if it is that inefficient it must be warming your room, at least during the colder months.

Less than a daily newspaper. A bargain!

 

[CJSF]

Tino and Lindsay seem to have hit the nail on the head, CJ. The amp cannot be the only contributor to that £350. Even if it were, it is less than a pound a day, which is nothing for the pleasure you derive. And if it is that inefficient it must be warming your room, at least during the colder months.

Less than a daily newspaper. A bargain!

Yes Nopiano, as I have put in a previous post, the period refered to by my electric bill analysis coincides not only with the valve amp ariving but my retirement! Loads of listening, buckett fulls of tea intravenasly fed . . . lights, heating etc. Expensive business is retirement . . . *biggrin*

Spent the past three and a half hours listening to the Croft amp . . . *scratch_one-s_head*

CJSF

 

[Overdose]

A pair of DM5 active speakers (or similar) attached to some sort of passive (non powered) preamp would most likely be all you would ever need in terms of sound quality and be far more energy efficient to boot.

Someone (not you CJ) should buy a set of AVI DM5s then connect them to a valve pre-amp and a turntable!

I believe some already do.

And no-one's head exploded over at AVI?

I'm not sure why it would.

Anyhow, thanks, you just reminded me of a DIY valve preamp project currently partway finished in a dusty box in a long forgotten corner of my house (under the stairs), I need to get cracking at some point and finish it off.

 

[Jota180]

Any thoughts on the above, I have muted something like this befor I thing, this is much more serious . .

To put it bluntly, it is your inability to be content with what you have that is the problem. It is getting in the way of actually enjoying the music.

You obsess over trivia and it is this that has most likely also cost you a lot of money through continuous 'upgrades'.

If you cannot afford what you have, get something that you can afford, it is quite simple.

A pair of DM5 active speakers (or similar) attached to some sort of passive (non powered) preamp would most likely be all you would ever need in terms of sound quality and be far more energy efficient to boot.

I'd put it more to the point of your inability to have a meanigfull and inteligent answere to a simply put question.

I did not say I cant afford it, but considered the implications and wheather it was worth going down that route. Read between the lines, I like what I have and enjoy it does any one have a sencible answer or have they looked at it this way?

CJSF

Only you and your wife can come to the conclusion as to whether it's worth it or not. If you require the moral support of people on the internet, you're doing it wrong! No one can tell you what to like.

 

[CJSF]

Any thoughts on the above, I have muted something like this befor I thing, this is much more serious . .

To put it bluntly, it is your inability to be content with what you have that is the problem. It is getting in the way of actually enjoying the music.

You obsess over trivia and it is this that has most likely also cost you a lot of money through continuous 'upgrades'.

If you cannot afford what you have, get something that you can afford, it is quite simple.

A pair of DM5 active speakers (or similar) attached to some sort of passive (non powered) preamp would most likely be all you would ever need in terms of sound quality and be far more energy efficient to boot.

I'd put it more to the point of your inability to have a meanigfull and inteligent answere to a simply put question.

I did not say I cant afford it, but considered the implications and wheather it was worth going down that route. Read between the lines, I like what I have and enjoy it does any one have a sencible answer or have they looked at it this way?

CJSF

Only you and your wife can come to the conclusion as to whether it's worth it or not. If you require the moral support of people on the internet, you're doing it wrong! No one can tell you what to like.

Jota, you obviously have not read the whole thread, things will not change because of the electric bill, they dont need to.

I put threads up like this to promote discussion, based on facts yes but I do have my own view, people jump in with both feet*biggrin*

I find it can helps my thinking processes to get other peoples views but in the end, I do my own thing which is rearly 'flavour of the month', spent most of my life swimming against the tide!

Four years ago, I needed the thoughts of others, one has come along way in that time, thanks to the patience of a number of members here . . . *smile*

I'm certainly swimming against the tide at this moments, my original thinking of 18 months is in shreds*dash1*

CJSF

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

The real probem here is, of course, the selling off of public utilities and the privatisation (schools, NHS) of much of what was publicly owned; gas and electricity bills are extortionate and many people face difficult choices re eat or heat...or er amplify.  Some will think I'm being facetious,  but it's not very often the real world crashes its way into these rarified discussions of cables and banana plugs.?

The sooner we re-nationalise our public services, the sooner we will move into a fairer, more compassionate society where pensioners, like CJSF and I, can enjoy our retirement without being scared to death of turning the heating and amplification on.?

?

 

Now acknowledged.

 

[Jim-W]

Made me laugh, BBB! Thanks.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Made me laugh, BBB! Thanks.

*good*