sand filling stands to have spendor speakers on?

[Anonymous]

Well, the stands arrived well packed the day after ordering and for no (apparent) delivery charge; kudos to PJ Hifi for the excellent service. I put them together (took blimmin ages as they have eight long screws on each stand to attach the top and bottom plates) and have spent about an hour positioning/levelling them.

So, after the first 20 mins of auditioning, how do they stack up?

My initial reaction is that they sound more natural, not a change I was expecting. The Apollo A4/6 sounded brighter and not as well balanced, perhaps due to ringing or the way they distributed energy. The other obvious improvement is in the bass. It seems punchier, better defined and possibly deeper. I've turned off the sub but I don't feel like I'm missing anything. It's almost as if the low mass stands are robbing less of the bass energy, but that's probably not really the physics behind it.

The sound strikes me as more three dimensional too, with greater depth. If the stands are allowing the speakers to dissipate energy more suitably than the A4/6s then this change makes sense. Perhaps there's less blurring of the imaging, not sure.

Having got to know the SA1s over the last two years I would go as far as to say that these stands are an essential addition. Clearly I haven't done a fair test, double blind, etc, but the improvements are pretty clear.

Right, more listening. What a superb purchase! They look pretty superb too.

 

[Craig M.]

result! don't you just love unleashing more performance then you knew you had.

 

[shooter]

Cool, sounds like a great investment.

listening.

Hmm, but it has me thinking!

 

[ESP2009]

Congrats, you lucky so-and-so!

I love to see success stories on these threads (provided, of course, there's not too much gloating involved!

)

 

[Anonymous]

Being realistic, these stands cost £500 new and it's not an easy thing to justify. The sound has clearly improved but I'm really glad I spent a lot less! It reminds me of when I upgraded my CD player; the improvements are there and become more obvious over time but the liklihood of having an initial panic over the cash outlay is higher than for a new amp!

 

[ESP2009]

igglebert:Being realistic, these stands cost £500 new and it's not an easy thing to justify. The sound has clearly improved but I'm really glad I spent a lot less! It reminds me of when I upgraded my CD player; the improvements are there and become more obvious over time but the liklihood of having an initial panic over the cash outlay is higher than for a new amp!

Yes, from the website browse I did, you got a very good price! Even so, you're right, the "did I waste my money" concern must be high for such a product.

Anyway, please keep us updated.

 

[mitch65]

Oh well that's thrown a spanner in the works!!

Been playing around with the squash balls and now I have a bigger soundstage but I need to start refilling the stands as the bass has gone suddenly really light. I read somewhere about using kitty litter instead of sand so - sorry kitty - I've started filling the stands, well to be fair it's as cheap as chips (value brand at Tescos).......this could take some time (what have I started!)

 

[Anonymous]

Kitty litter.... It doesn't really have much weight behind it, and you will not get that much in the stands. Stick with sand or metal shot if I was you.

 

[ESP2009]

Oh, the temptation to get involved afresh on this one, but I'm supposed to be working.

But KITTY LITTER?!?!? That's a new one!

 

[mitch65]

Hehe, strangely it works well without the squash balls adding the back the bass weight which kinda backs up what you were saying earlier in the thread that empty stands and balls kill da bass man!

Still, I've got the sand on standby and with a 'wife free' Sunday coming up.................

 

[ESP2009]

Well, I shouldn't really mock or raise eyebrows. I hope to be able to report back vis-a-vis the use of ice hockey pucks soon.

 

[Anonymous]

Having spent more time with the SA1 stands, I have to report that the difference in bass is huge. There's so much more of it. It's odd because going from filled to unfilled stands robbed some bass quantity but gave a bit more air and lightness of touch (apparently so anyway). Now I've gone to low mass wooden stands the bass has increased beyond anything before!

This and a very slight reduction in brightness has allowed me to toe the speakers in more, maintaining a good tonal balance but with added focus. This has helped make the midrange sound clearer on some material that sounded a little muddy before. So far so good.

I'm now starting to wonder whether my amp isn't gripping the speakers enough. The bass is pretty strong and I suspect a touch more control would be perfect. I can almost taste my end-goal now, just need to mono-bloc my 405MK3s and I think I'll be there!

What a difference a stand can make!

 

[ESP2009]

Igglebert, all I can say is that your post made me smile...a smile of someone who is enjoying reading someone else deriving such satisfaction and joy from a purchase (especially a bargain). I am glad you are getting more and more out of your system.

Jealous? Me? You bet!

 

[ESP2009]

Anyway, onto this evening's mucking about (sorry, experimentation). I tried the following:-

1. 'Raw' - Speaker stands direct onto carpet and speakers direct onto stands. Bass booms too much and dominates the rest of the music - balance is lost. Maybe a loss of precision at the top end, but not much.

2. Add Blu-Tack: Bass gains greater definition and tautness; it begins to sound more balanced. There may even be greater clarity and precision at the top end now. Noticing more details now the bass has been tamed a little.

3. Add halved squash balls instead of Blu-Tack: Even better all around - achieves what Blu-Tack does but more so. The sound as a whole is more balanced and more details emerge.

4. Ice hockey pucks between speaker and stand: disappointing. The whole sound just seems to lose body and soul. The bass is reduced, the top end gains a splashy thin feel to it, and the mid-range loses depth and presence - yuk! Back in with the squash balls!

5. Combine balls with pucks? Why not? Errrr? That's weird. I am not sure whether I like that effect or not. I swear that the sound gains power and I can actually feel the bass even though it remains pretty taut and focussed. Although taut and snappy, I think the overall sound has lost some sense of spaciousness, becoming more focussed and 'in yer face'. Yet it retains control. Maybe it's time to put the spikes back in the stand bases?

6. OK, add spikes back in: yes, it reins the sound in just a tad. It is likely that the more precise connection to the wooden floor below helps. I will have to take the pucks away and decide whether or not the more concentrated sound is for me. Meanwhile.

7. Hockey pucks between speaker stand and a granite chopping board: disappointing. Well, I say that, but I think it is more accurate to say "no discernible change". So, if you don't want spikes into your carpet, it seems to be a solution that works just as well as spiked stands drilling through carpet and underlay into the wood below.

I suppose I could try the chopping boards again, or I could...just sit back and enjoy the sound I am getting now. Maybe that's it. Maybe there is nothing else to do as it.stands?

Well, not quite, I did have a dabble with toeing in and position of speakers relative to walls, etc, earlier. Again! Seems to me that the best effect in our room is firing straight down the length. The speakers are just short of 30cm in from the back wall and about the same from the side (I can't really do more) and 3.5m apart (again, little leeway possible) with approx 4.5m to my normal listening position. If I toe the speakers in, the soundstage is diminished and out of balance.

So, having taken a look at the Room Acoustics thread and the link about speaker positioning contained therein, and then experimenting with the isolation methods, I have certainly changed the sound but need to decide whether I am comfortable with it. As for those chopping boards, well I still need to get hold of a few suitable doorstops at good prices and the DIY component supports will proliferate - should look better than wooden blocks!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks ESP

Nice write up on the mucking about! I've always been tempted to try two people holding the speakers for me to see how that sounds...

 

[ESP2009]

igglebert:Thanks ESP

Nice write up on the mucking about! I've always been tempted to try two people holding the speakers for me to see how that sounds...

For best results they would need to be twins. What about the Cheeky Girls?

And with that thought it's off to bedfordshire...

 

[AL13N]

igglebert:Now I've gone to low mass wooden stands the bass has increased beyond anything before!
Does this mean you're not using the sub with music? Or do certain types of music still call for the sub?

Just curious after reading another mags review of the SA1 and A6.

 

[Anonymous]

I've unplugged the sub because I'm trying to understand how it sounds without. I only really like it to fill in some of the really low bits to add to the picture. I tend to set it up with a gap but it always sounds better this way to me. Odd hey!

 

[AL13N]

Well, sometimes odd can be good!

Thanks for the info.

 

[Bodfish]

igglebert:Thanks ESP

Nice write up on the mucking about! I've always been tempted to try two people holding the speakers for me to see how that sounds...

That reminds me...anyone else ever thought about suspending a set of speakers from the ceiling? It's just me? OK, I'll get my coat...

 

[Anonymous]

igglebert:Having spent more time with the SA1 stands, I have to report that the difference in bass is huge. There's so much more of it. It's odd because going from filled to unfilled stands robbed some bass quantity but gave a bit more air and lightness of touch (apparently so anyway). Now I've gone to low mass wooden stands the bass has increased beyond anything before! This and a very slight reduction in brightness has allowed me to toe the speakers in more, maintaining a good tonal balance but with added focus. This has helped make the midrange sound clearer on some material that sounded a little muddy before. So far so good. I'm now starting to wonder whether my amp isn't gripping the speakers enough. The bass is pretty strong and I suspect a touch more control would be perfect. I can almost taste my end-goal now, just need to mono-bloc my 405MK3s and I think I'll be there! What a difference a stand can make! Well done igglebert, nice to see that you are finally getting to your sonic goal at last, but if you were to take yourself out of the picture and see what you are saying from an outsiders point of view then all of the improvements that you are describing ie, huge difference in bass, don,t need sub, more realistic midrange, more airy and lightness ( detail ). Sounds as if you are now describing a floorstander ( Very much like the A6 ) also your now doubting your amp, again the floorstander is an easier load. Before you go any further with upgrading why don,t you take your kit along and test the whole lot against a floorstander, because you might just find that the sound you are trying to achieve has already been built into one.

 

[Anonymous]

It's a good suggestion Johnny and one I've flirted with for a while. There's a few factors here. I've yet to hear a floorstander I like. I heard the A6 with the Arcam A38 and I thought the bass was way OTT for me. There's probably other floorstanders out there but for what cost. Another factor is that I don't really want the fs units in my lounge. Another is how much I'd lose in the selling and buying process.

Don't get me wrong, the SA1 is more bassy now but it's still behind any fs! It has strengths that I'm going to lose in a fs unless I spend an awful lot I suspect. Plus, in my experience, any floorstander I've heard to date really needed more power to keep the bass in check. By monoing my Quads I think I'll have exactly what I want but I seriously doubt I'd remove that need with a fs. Anyway, I'm smitten by the SA1s, they incredible!

 

[ESP2009]

Bodfish:

That reminds me...anyone else ever thought about suspending a set of speakers from the ceiling? It's just me? OK, I'll get my coat...

I reckon you're onto something there - a definite gap in the market to be shamelessly exploited!

I'm sure there are plenty of us who would fall for it!

 

[Anonymous]

igglebert:It's a good suggestion Johnny and one I've flirted with for a while. There's a few factors here. I've yet to hear a floorstander I like. I heard the A6 with the Arcam A38 and I thought the bass was way OTT for me. There's probably other floorstanders out there but for what cost. Another factor is that I don't really want the fs units in my lounge. Another is how much I'd lose in the selling and buying process. Don't get me wrong, the SA1 is more bassy now but it's still behind any fs! It has strengths that I'm going to lose in a fs unless I spend an awful lot I suspect. Plus, in my experience, any floorstander I've heard to date really needed more power to keep the bass in check. By monoing my Quads I think I'll have exactly what I want but I seriously doubt I'd remove that need with a fs. Anyway, I'm smitten by the SA1s, they incredible! Thanks igglebert, nice explanation, yes your right about the costs involved, never occured to me, i,m not too familiar with the rest of your kit ie amplification, i think i just took it for granted that if i,m hearing a certain sound with the sugden then you would be hearing the same with your kit, sorry my stupid mistake ! I have never been a hi-fi buff as per, think i,m probably a bit lucky in that i,m happy with the sound i get with my kit from day one and so have never needed to tweak or adjust anything, anyway i,m really happy for you and hope that you can now just sit back, press play and enjoy, after all thats what it,s all about, good on ya

 

[Anonymous]

Haha, yeah, music...can't get enough!!! Your Sugden is probably a sound I'd love more than the Quad but I'm sticking with the 405 for sentimental reasons (seems as good as any!!). Cheers for your thoughts though.