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Me 2, think the sand was stopping the trebble properly coming through, but it might be that I want to hear a difference. Will give it another week and see how it goes.
Yes, although I notice that on extended listening I need to tone down that treble a little bit (sibilance coming through). I guess I already knew there would be a trade off so I'll just keep on tweaking as i know I'm not far away........just a few more grains
mitch65:Yes, although I notice that on extended listening I need to tone down that treble a little bit (sibilance coming through). I guess I already knew there would be a trade off so I'll just keep on tweaking as i know I'm not far away........just a few more grains
Count them carefully.
Count them carefully.
having filled the stands with 4 trowels of sand each equaling about 10% (give or take), sibilance has now disappeared. The sound is now less edgy and less fatiguing on extended listening. Amy Macdonald's voice is still nicely positioned in the soundstage without threatening my fillings!
Don't think the TV's going on tonight somehow.
I am now officially a tweaker! How anal is that!
I am now officially a tweaker! How anal is that!
mitch65:
having filled the stands with 4 trowels of sand each equaling about 10% (give or take), sibilance has now disappeared. The sound is now less edgy and less fatiguing on extended listening. Amy Macdonald's voice is still nicely positioned in the soundstage without threatening my fillings!
Don't think the TV's going on tonight somehow.
I am now officially a tweaker! How anal is that!
I wish I could say it will get better but I would be fibbing.
For my own part, to my great surprise, I am back to square one!
I started the evening with empty stands. The sound was good, but I was unsure about something that eluded me. I decided to try out some bricks under the stands. Yes, I know it's departing from the exercise, but talk of granite slabs and all that tempted me. Anyway, I tried it and concluded it was no real step forward or backward. I then re-instated the BluTak I had been using until relatively recently; nope, for me it seemed a retrograde step as something ebbed away from the listening experience. Putting the half squash balls back confirmed it - the definition improved.
So, back to Dune. Having seived all the sandworms out, I started the tedious process of adding the sand back in. Bah, the stuff goes everywhere (good job I was still using the ground sheet). I tried various methods involving rolled up paper, a funnel and just a trowel - the paper seemed the best...just. And then, belatedly, I had the Eureka! moment. A 1.5 or 2 litre coke bottle! Rubbish! Why? Neck too small. But lateral thinking came to the rescue - a 2 litre plastic milk carton, with the base cut off was the answer. Not only does it allow a relatively accurate measure of the sand, but you can use the cap to avoid spillages (just don't drop it into the hole in the speaker stand!) This made the process so much quicker and less of a pain.
Having filled the stands with about 15 trowels each without the aid of the milk container, I had listened and decided there was no obvious change, although I did begin to wonder whether there might be a move towards greater weight! I gave up for a while and went for a drive to enjoy the sunset - not very spectacular, I must say, but it served to freshen me up. At this point I forged ahead and filled the stands to about 75%-80% capacity. I just couldn't be bothered with incremental steps.
Lo and behold, the sound was re-defined. I must say right now that it may be purely a matter of taste; that the sound of my system without the sand would suit other listeners. However, for me, now that I have listened to the two, I much prefer the filled stands. The sound is more defined, more weighty in the right areas but allowing the precision of delicate instruments to shine through. I was quite surprised to hear a better depth and presence of sound by comparison. Cymbals are zingy and don't splash any more than I would expect given the system I have. I think it is time to stop playing in the sand for now. Empty, the Atacamas do a decent job in my room; fill them and they provide a firm foundation that really seems to improve the overall sonic experience.
Just in case you are not aware of the fact, the living room floor is a suspended wooden affair. It may be that the configuration I have chosen is right for this kind of floor. It might also be that the combination of the system components, layout and my personal tastes differ enough that others would disagree. It certainly means I have no intention of increasing my level of anality in the sand department!
But one final note: given that Best Buy are coming to a shopping complex near me soon, I might just take my Spendors along to test-drive a few modern alternatives to the venerable SE24s. I wonder if they do an 'on approval' service? Because I bet they haven't a suspended wooden floor!
And so to bed...I hear the sandman a-callin'.
having filled the stands with 4 trowels of sand each equaling about 10% (give or take), sibilance has now disappeared. The sound is now less edgy and less fatiguing on extended listening. Amy Macdonald's voice is still nicely positioned in the soundstage without threatening my fillings!
I am now officially a tweaker! How anal is that!
I wish I could say it will get better but I would be fibbing.
For my own part, to my great surprise, I am back to square one!
I started the evening with empty stands. The sound was good, but I was unsure about something that eluded me. I decided to try out some bricks under the stands. Yes, I know it's departing from the exercise, but talk of granite slabs and all that tempted me. Anyway, I tried it and concluded it was no real step forward or backward. I then re-instated the BluTak I had been using until relatively recently; nope, for me it seemed a retrograde step as something ebbed away from the listening experience. Putting the half squash balls back confirmed it - the definition improved.
So, back to Dune. Having seived all the sandworms out, I started the tedious process of adding the sand back in. Bah, the stuff goes everywhere (good job I was still using the ground sheet). I tried various methods involving rolled up paper, a funnel and just a trowel - the paper seemed the best...just. And then, belatedly, I had the Eureka! moment. A 1.5 or 2 litre coke bottle! Rubbish! Why? Neck too small. But lateral thinking came to the rescue - a 2 litre plastic milk carton, with the base cut off was the answer. Not only does it allow a relatively accurate measure of the sand, but you can use the cap to avoid spillages (just don't drop it into the hole in the speaker stand!) This made the process so much quicker and less of a pain.
Having filled the stands with about 15 trowels each without the aid of the milk container, I had listened and decided there was no obvious change, although I did begin to wonder whether there might be a move towards greater weight! I gave up for a while and went for a drive to enjoy the sunset - not very spectacular, I must say, but it served to freshen me up. At this point I forged ahead and filled the stands to about 75%-80% capacity. I just couldn't be bothered with incremental steps.
Lo and behold, the sound was re-defined. I must say right now that it may be purely a matter of taste; that the sound of my system without the sand would suit other listeners. However, for me, now that I have listened to the two, I much prefer the filled stands. The sound is more defined, more weighty in the right areas but allowing the precision of delicate instruments to shine through. I was quite surprised to hear a better depth and presence of sound by comparison. Cymbals are zingy and don't splash any more than I would expect given the system I have. I think it is time to stop playing in the sand for now. Empty, the Atacamas do a decent job in my room; fill them and they provide a firm foundation that really seems to improve the overall sonic experience.
Just in case you are not aware of the fact, the living room floor is a suspended wooden affair. It may be that the configuration I have chosen is right for this kind of floor. It might also be that the combination of the system components, layout and my personal tastes differ enough that others would disagree. It certainly means I have no intention of increasing my level of anality in the sand department!
But one final note: given that Best Buy are coming to a shopping complex near me soon, I might just take my Spendors along to test-drive a few modern alternatives to the venerable SE24s. I wonder if they do an 'on approval' service? Because I bet they haven't a suspended wooden floor!
And so to bed...I hear the sandman a-callin'.
Great write up ESP.
A couple of points you make there that interest me.
For years now i've been using small half round black grommets in between the speaker and the stand and there seems to be a lack of sparkle at the top end. The stands themselves are Partington Heavi II which are solid mass filled stands with no option of removing granular material.They are in turn sat on isolation cones. The floor material is stone with an concrete bass. Could it be all this solid material is taking the edge of the top end? I'm wondering if i replace the grommets with squash balls this may liven it up. Don't get me wrong the top end is clear and defined with no 'splash' of the cymbal but it seems to lacks a bit of zing.
I think i'll be trying these squash balls before entering into something more serious!
A couple of points you make there that interest me.
For years now i've been using small half round black grommets in between the speaker and the stand and there seems to be a lack of sparkle at the top end. The stands themselves are Partington Heavi II which are solid mass filled stands with no option of removing granular material.They are in turn sat on isolation cones. The floor material is stone with an concrete bass. Could it be all this solid material is taking the edge of the top end? I'm wondering if i replace the grommets with squash balls this may liven it up. Don't get me wrong the top end is clear and defined with no 'splash' of the cymbal but it seems to lacks a bit of zing.
I think i'll be trying these squash balls before entering into something more serious!
You see? That's what intrigues me about the whole listening conditions thing. All too often statements are made on the forum that take no account of the particular circumstances such as flooring, furnishings, etc, etc. It was only after I moved my TDL RTL2s from front room to living room that I began to truly appreciate the impact the room itself can have.
That said, I was somewhat surprised to find that those squash balls have the effect they do. I don't know enough about such things to explain to myself why the dampening effect they must have between speakers and stands is beneficial in the way it is. However, to me, the effect is preferable over that of a more rigid coupling. BluTak seems to hold the speakers rock-steady, whilst obviously acting as a damper; the squash balls allow the speakers to sway slightly when pushed. Yet, to my ears, filled stands and squash balls sound better than either unfilled stands with BluTak, unfilled stands with squash balls or filled stands with Blutak. Go figure!
Maybe, if I see something cheap enough, I will test the spiky or sorbothane(ish) options.
Anyway, squash balls? For less than £6 for a pack they must be worth trying.
Of course, it may just be that you need to start another cable thread!
That said, I was somewhat surprised to find that those squash balls have the effect they do. I don't know enough about such things to explain to myself why the dampening effect they must have between speakers and stands is beneficial in the way it is. However, to me, the effect is preferable over that of a more rigid coupling. BluTak seems to hold the speakers rock-steady, whilst obviously acting as a damper; the squash balls allow the speakers to sway slightly when pushed. Yet, to my ears, filled stands and squash balls sound better than either unfilled stands with BluTak, unfilled stands with squash balls or filled stands with Blutak. Go figure!
Maybe, if I see something cheap enough, I will test the spiky or sorbothane(ish) options.
Anyway, squash balls? For less than £6 for a pack they must be worth trying.
Of course, it may just be that you need to start another cable thread!
Think I may give the squash balls a go over the weekend. As an inexpensive option compared to dedicated audio accessories I am willing to try and if they do not work out - hey, big deal. Enjoying the listening sessions so far, should be even more interesting when I switch from FLAC files to vinyl and a few balls thrown into the mix.
ESP2009:mitch65:
having filled the stands with 4 trowels of sand each equaling about 10% (give or take), sibilance has now disappeared. The sound is now less edgy and less fatiguing on extended listening. Amy Macdonald's voice is still nicely positioned in the soundstage without threatening my fillings!
Don't think the TV's going on tonight somehow.
I am now officially a tweaker! How anal is that!
But one final note: given that Best Buy are coming to a shopping complex near me soon, I might just take my Spendors along to test-drive a few modern alternatives to the venerable SE24s. I wonder if they do an 'on approval' service? Because I bet they haven't a suspended wooden floor!
And so to bed...I hear the sandman a-callin'.
Knowing your luck it will probably be a mezzanine floor! lol!
having filled the stands with 4 trowels of sand each equaling about 10% (give or take), sibilance has now disappeared. The sound is now less edgy and less fatiguing on extended listening. Amy Macdonald's voice is still nicely positioned in the soundstage without threatening my fillings!
I am now officially a tweaker! How anal is that!
But one final note: given that Best Buy are coming to a shopping complex near me soon, I might just take my Spendors along to test-drive a few modern alternatives to the venerable SE24s. I wonder if they do an 'on approval' service? Because I bet they haven't a suspended wooden floor!
And so to bed...I hear the sandman a-callin'.
Knowing your luck it will probably be a mezzanine floor! lol!
mitch65:Amy Macdonald's voice is still nicely positioned in the soundstage without threatening my fillings!
The special edition of her first album is on the way to me, courtesy of Play. I saw recommendations on the forum and listened on Spotify. Now it's time to fulfil my promise and buy the CD.
Good luck with the vinyl - I do wonder, from time to time, whether I want to go back and try that medium, given the opinions I read of decent vinyl and decent decks. Maybe sometime...it's just one more sound tweak, isn't it?
The special edition of her first album is on the way to me, courtesy of Play. I saw recommendations on the forum and listened on Spotify. Now it's time to fulfil my promise and buy the CD.
Good luck with the vinyl - I do wonder, from time to time, whether I want to go back and try that medium, given the opinions I read of decent vinyl and decent decks. Maybe sometime...it's just one more sound tweak, isn't it?
Well, I just ordered the Spendor SA1 matching stands so will see how they impact the sound this week hopefully!
igglebert:Well, I just ordered the Spendor SA1 matching stands so will see how they impact the sound this week hopefully!
What? You mean the RRP £400 real deal?!?! Blimey! What have your SA1s been sitting on to-date, then? We await your report.
I have been toying with the idea of grabbing an ex-demo pair of SA1s, despite it being less than 12 months since I bought the S3e bargain pair on your recommendation. So far the logic chip is doing a fine override job on the temptation/impulse centre. The S3e sound is good so, given the remainder of my kit, it is sensible to get the best out of what I have, but the temptation is always there to try something even better. Good common sense is winning out...for now.
Next tweak? Ice hockey pucks and granite/slate: under stands, on stands, and under separates. "Somebody Stop me!"
What? You mean the RRP £400 real deal?!?! Blimey! What have your SA1s been sitting on to-date, then? We await your report.
I have been toying with the idea of grabbing an ex-demo pair of SA1s, despite it being less than 12 months since I bought the S3e bargain pair on your recommendation. So far the logic chip is doing a fine override job on the temptation/impulse centre. The S3e sound is good so, given the remainder of my kit, it is sensible to get the best out of what I have, but the temptation is always there to try something even better. Good common sense is winning out...for now.
Next tweak? Ice hockey pucks and granite/slate: under stands, on stands, and under separates. "Somebody Stop me!"
Stunningly the RRP is now £500! I found some ex-demo that I couldn't ignore. Good job the missus is in China at the mo
the_lhc:
igglebert: Good job the missus is in China at the mo
Has she got a return ticket already? The joint account will be empty the way you're going...
All part of the plan, I'm sure.
igglebert: Good job the missus is in China at the mo
Has she got a return ticket already? The joint account will be empty the way you're going...
All part of the plan, I'm sure.
the_lhc:
igglebert: Good job the missus is in China at the mo
Has she got a return ticket already? The joint account will be empty the way you're going...
It's the only purchase I've made for a long time...it was cheap too
igglebert: Good job the missus is in China at the mo
Has she got a return ticket already? The joint account will be empty the way you're going...
It's the only purchase I've made for a long time...it was cheap too
igglebert:the_lhc:
igglebert: Good job the missus is in China at the mo
Has she got a return ticket already? The joint account will be empty the way you're going...
It's the only purchase I've made for a long time...it was cheap too
What, the ticket or the stands?
igglebert: Good job the missus is in China at the mo
Has she got a return ticket already? The joint account will be empty the way you're going...
It's the only purchase I've made for a long time...it was cheap too
What, the ticket or the stands?
igglebert:Well, I just ordered the Spendor SA1 matching stands so will see how they impact the sound this week hopefully!
Ah, good stuff!
Definitely interested to see if the matching stands out perform the Apollo's you have. The costing's of the two are considerably different and i wonder if there will be a considerable change in the sonic's?
If it is the case that the matching stands outperform the Apollo's then i'll be wondering if i can gain from changing the Heavi's i'm using. As far as i am aware these were designed for the Mani's by Partington for the UK market but Totem produced their own the T4L for the Mani for the American market.I wonder how these would compare?
Ah, good stuff!
Definitely interested to see if the matching stands out perform the Apollo's you have. The costing's of the two are considerably different and i wonder if there will be a considerable change in the sonic's?
If it is the case that the matching stands outperform the Apollo's then i'll be wondering if i can gain from changing the Heavi's i'm using. As far as i am aware these were designed for the Mani's by Partington for the UK market but Totem produced their own the T4L for the Mani for the American market.I wonder how these would compare?
I'll keep you posted. I'm really excited as this was all a bit unexpected. I saw some for sale and couldn't refuse at the price. Brilliant!
ESP2009:
mitch65:Amy Macdonald's voice is still nicely positioned in the soundstage without threatening my fillings!
The special edition of her first album is on the way to me, courtesy of Play. I saw recommendations on the forum and listened on Spotify. Now it's time to fulfil my promise and buy the CD.
Good luck with the vinyl - I do wonder, from time to time, whether I want to go back and try that medium, given the opinions I read of decent vinyl and decent decks. Maybe sometime...it's just one more sound tweak, isn't it?
Problem with vinyl though, it's bloody costly having just bought some MFSL, Simply Vinyl and Classic Records recently. That said I am super inpressed with the quality especially the MFSL (very, very quiet) and no doubt I will be buying a some more second-hand vinyl as well!
Do I take it your Spendors were purchased from a well known HiFi chain in the South at a very agreeable 'end of range' price?
Hope you enjoy the Amy Macdonald album.
mitch65:Amy Macdonald's voice is still nicely positioned in the soundstage without threatening my fillings!
The special edition of her first album is on the way to me, courtesy of Play. I saw recommendations on the forum and listened on Spotify. Now it's time to fulfil my promise and buy the CD.
Good luck with the vinyl - I do wonder, from time to time, whether I want to go back and try that medium, given the opinions I read of decent vinyl and decent decks. Maybe sometime...it's just one more sound tweak, isn't it?
Problem with vinyl though, it's bloody costly having just bought some MFSL, Simply Vinyl and Classic Records recently. That said I am super inpressed with the quality especially the MFSL (very, very quiet) and no doubt I will be buying a some more second-hand vinyl as well!
Do I take it your Spendors were purchased from a well known HiFi chain in the South at a very agreeable 'end of range' price?
Hope you enjoy the Amy Macdonald album.
Phil
Find a local Qadraspire dealer and pop your S3Es on a pair of QX600s (about £250), forget about the "wisdom" of big, metal ringing metal stands damped "a bit" with sand, and have a listen to how a speaker sounds on a light acrylic "wobbly" stand!!!!
As long as you can site them on a flat floor (there are no adjusting spikes on these babies!) be prepared for a pleasant treat!!
Find a local Qadraspire dealer and pop your S3Es on a pair of QX600s (about £250), forget about the "wisdom" of big, metal ringing metal stands damped "a bit" with sand, and have a listen to how a speaker sounds on a light acrylic "wobbly" stand!!!!
As long as you can site them on a flat floor (there are no adjusting spikes on these babies!) be prepared for a pleasant treat!!
mitch65:
Do I take it your Spendors were purchased from a well known HiFi chain in the South at a very agreeable 'end of range' price?
Hope you enjoy the Amy Macdonald album.
"Ohhhhh, yus!" on both counts.
However, having just done the whole tightening thang on the speaker nuts I am listening to my sound-check fave: "My One And Only Thrill" by Melody Gardot. I have to say that right now, I don't know why I would want or need to spend more. It's a lovely sound.
Okaaaaay, the other night, when I first put on the Amy Macdonald, it seemed a bit too boomy in the bass dept. It is now quite powerful, but a bit more under control. I will be trying out the Tesco granite 'neath the stands later to see what occurs. Then, when they arrive, in go the hocky pucks. Well, you have to try these things.
Do I take it your Spendors were purchased from a well known HiFi chain in the South at a very agreeable 'end of range' price?
Hope you enjoy the Amy Macdonald album.
"Ohhhhh, yus!" on both counts.
However, having just done the whole tightening thang on the speaker nuts I am listening to my sound-check fave: "My One And Only Thrill" by Melody Gardot. I have to say that right now, I don't know why I would want or need to spend more. It's a lovely sound.
Okaaaaay, the other night, when I first put on the Amy Macdonald, it seemed a bit too boomy in the bass dept. It is now quite powerful, but a bit more under control. I will be trying out the Tesco granite 'neath the stands later to see what occurs. Then, when they arrive, in go the hocky pucks. Well, you have to try these things.
ESP2009:mitch65:
Do I take it your Spendors were purchased from a well known HiFi chain in the South at a very agreeable 'end of range' price?
Hope you enjoy the Amy Macdonald album.
"Ohhhhh, yus!" on both counts.
However, having just done the whole tightening thang on the speaker nuts I am listening to my sound-check fave: "My One And Only Thrill" by Melody Gardot. I have to say that right now, I don't know why I would want or need to spend more. It's a lovely sound.
Okaaaaay, the other night, when I first put on the Amy Macdonald, it seemed a bit too boomy in the bass dept. It is now quite powerful, but a bit more under control. I will be trying out the Tesco granit 'neath the stands later to see what occurs. Then, when they arrive, in go the hocky pucks. Well, you have to try these things.
Doh! That reminds me, I meant to try the squash balls this weekend
Do I take it your Spendors were purchased from a well known HiFi chain in the South at a very agreeable 'end of range' price?
Hope you enjoy the Amy Macdonald album.
"Ohhhhh, yus!" on both counts.
However, having just done the whole tightening thang on the speaker nuts I am listening to my sound-check fave: "My One And Only Thrill" by Melody Gardot. I have to say that right now, I don't know why I would want or need to spend more. It's a lovely sound.
Okaaaaay, the other night, when I first put on the Amy Macdonald, it seemed a bit too boomy in the bass dept. It is now quite powerful, but a bit more under control. I will be trying out the Tesco granit 'neath the stands later to see what occurs. Then, when they arrive, in go the hocky pucks. Well, you have to try these things.
Doh! That reminds me, I meant to try the squash balls this weekend
mitch65:
Doh! That reminds me, I meant to try the squash balls this weekend
Oooops!
Just a quick update: Tesco granite chopping boards alone do not an improvement make. Yes, the bass was more restrained, but so was everything else - the whole sound lost a couple of notches of presence and body, becoming thinner and, if anything, more sibilant. OK, we await the arrival of some vulcanised rubber. I fully intend to try them between speaker and stand as well as between stand and granite. However, it will be over a week before I get to try that.
Doh! That reminds me, I meant to try the squash balls this weekend
Oooops!
Just a quick update: Tesco granite chopping boards alone do not an improvement make. Yes, the bass was more restrained, but so was everything else - the whole sound lost a couple of notches of presence and body, becoming thinner and, if anything, more sibilant. OK, we await the arrival of some vulcanised rubber. I fully intend to try them between speaker and stand as well as between stand and granite. However, it will be over a week before I get to try that.
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